The Ancient Astronaut Argument

[euouae]

All dates are approximated by research and are designated as Years Before Present.

 

(Stone Age)

200000 - 150000 YBP - Mitochondrial Ancestor in Africa

150000 - 125000 YBP - Y-Chromosomal Ancestor in Africa

70000 - 60000 YBP - First successful migration out of Africa

14000 - 11500 YBP - Earliest Known Sedentarization in Eastern Mediterranean

14000 - 10000 YBP - Evidence of habitation in Egypt

(Start of current Interglacial Period)

11000 YBP - Construction of Göbekli Tepe (Radiocarbon)

(Bronze Age)

7300 YBP - Earliest Civilization: Mesopotamia Settled

6000 YBP - Earliest wheeled vehicles

5200 YBP - Start of Egyptian Dynasty

5100 YBP - Start of historic record in Sumer/Egypt

5000 YBP - Archaeologists: Earliest possible construction of Great Pyramid at Giza

5000 YBP - Earliest possible Metrology in Mesopotamia

4900 YBP - Earliest possible Metrology in Egypt

4900 YBP - First King of Sumeria after "Great Deluge"

4500 YBP - Construction of Stonehenge

4500 YBP - Earliest known written mathematics in Sumeria

4500 YBP - Earliest written record of Creation/Deluge myths

4100 - 3500 YBP - Start of Chinese Dynasty

4000 YBP - Archaeologists: Latest possible construction of Great Pyramid at Giza

3900 YBP - Earliest known Egyptian Mathematics

3500 YBP - Earliest known written sighting of Flying Objects

(Iron Age)

2800 YBP - Ancient Rome settled

2600 YBP - Ancient Greeks invent Crane

2550 YBP - Precise cuts in stone at Pumapunku

2500 YBP - Start of Persian Empire

2200 YBP - Great Pyramid at Giza first written reference

 

Argument points:

 

Göbekli Tepe built before Bronze Age, immediately after the last glacial period, before humans discover the wheel, before first human civilization, before human metrology/mathematics.

 

Great Pyramid at Giza built around/before earliest Egyptian metrology/mathematics and at the beginning of the Bronze Age.

 

Since the beginning of written history, humans have documented extraterrestrial sightings, encounters and influence. If early humans were capable of intelligently engineering and constructing massive stone structures, why would they fabricate myths about these structures being constructed by extraterrestrials? And why do all early accounts of extraterrestrials describe at least two opposing factions with opposite intentions for humans?

 

If simple and complex life exists on Earth, and we have found extraterrestrial fossilized simple cells, then the probability of extraterrestrial complex/intelligent life must be assigned a value.

 

If the human species are the sole product of molecular self replication, then what was the first replicator? And why are we the only species that has developed an intelligence gene.

 

Is it really so far fetched that we are the product of advanced genetic engineering that even we ourselves are on the verge of achieving?

Edited October 25, 2011 by euouae

[John Cuthber]

"Göbekli Tepe built before Bronze Age, immediately after the last glacial period, before humans discover the wheel, before first human civilization, before human metrology/mathematics."

How do you know?

Were you there at the time?

It's kind of difficult not to invent the wheel- a round rock or fruit will give you the idea.

What most people fail to account for is that a wheel is approximately sod-all use.

Inventing the wheel is easy.

Inventing a road is the key.

That's only helpful if you need to shift more stuff than you can carry in a simple bag.

These people didn't need to carry a bus pass, Iphone, make up and so on.

Wheels wouldn't have helped them much. (if you don't believe me, get a wheelbarrow, put a few bricks in it and then try wheeling it through wooded land off the beaten path.)

 

"If early humans were capable of intelligently engineering and constructing massive stone structures"

Early humans still do , in a sense, we call them children and we give them building blocks to play with. It's really not that difficult to make a pyramid; ask at the local creche.

 

"why would they fabricate myths about these structures being constructed by extraterrestrials? "

Because you can't really make up good myths about humans- after all humans can't make planets- so you need a myth about someone else, bigger than humans, to explain the earth.

Since those "superhumans" are clearly not still here, they must be somewhere else. That makes them extraterrestrial.

 

"And why do all early accounts of extraterrestrials describe at least two opposing factions with opposite intentions for humans?"

Because it would be a dull story otherwise, and it wouldn't make sense.

The typical stories are something like

"why is there food for us"

"because the good superhumans made it for us."

"Why is there sometimes a famine "

(pause for hasty thinking)

"There are some bad superhumans too- they sometimes fight the good ones"

 

 

 

"Is it really so far fetched that we are the product of advanced genetic engineering that even we ourselves are on the verge of achieving?"

Who cares how far fetched it is; there's no justification for it.

[euouae]

"Göbekli Tepe built before Bronze Age, immediately after the last glacial period, before humans discover the wheel, before first human civilization, before human metrology/mathematics."

How do you know?

Were you there at the time?

It's kind of difficult not to invent the wheel- a round rock or fruit will give you the idea.

What most people fail to account for is that a wheel is approximately sod-all use.

Inventing the wheel is easy.

Inventing a road is the key.

That's only helpful if you need to shift more stuff than you can carry in a simple bag.

These people didn't need to carry a bus pass, Iphone, make up and so on.

Wheels wouldn't have helped them much. (if you don't believe me, get a wheelbarrow, put a few bricks in it and then try wheeling it through wooded land off the beaten path.)

 

"If early humans were capable of intelligently engineering and constructing massive stone structures"

Early humans still do , in a sense, we call them children and we give them building blocks to play with. It's really not that difficult to make a pyramid; ask at the local creche.

 

"why would they fabricate myths about these structures being constructed by extraterrestrials? "

Because you can't really make up good myths about humans- after all humans can't make planets- so you need a myth about someone else, bigger than humans, to explain the earth.

Since those "superhumans" are clearly not still here, they must be somewhere else. That makes them extraterrestrial.

 

"And why do all early accounts of extraterrestrials describe at least two opposing factions with opposite intentions for humans?"

Because it would be a dull story otherwise, and it wouldn't make sense.

The typical stories are something like

"why is there food for us"

"because the good superhumans made it for us."

"Why is there sometimes a famine "

(pause for hasty thinking)

"There are some bad superhumans too- they sometimes fight the good ones"

 

 

 

"Is it really so far fetched that we are the product of advanced genetic engineering that even we ourselves are on the verge of achieving?"

Who cares how far fetched it is; there's no justification for it.

 

Gobekli Tepe has been radiocarbon dated to no less than 10000 years ago, yet the earliest known human civilization (Sumer) is c. 7000 years ago. They didn't develop metrology/basic mathematics until about 5000 years ago based upon archaeological finds.

 

I don't believe you understand the physics involved in building the Great Pyramid without the use of the wheel, cranes, lumber, ramps, etc. It is easy to say 'It's a stone structure that was built by primitive humans' but it is harder to explain how they actually did so without advanced mathematics, engineering and astronomy. Much less why they associated the construction with extraterrestrial influence. So humans went from drawing stick figures in caves to fabricating stories on stone to influence the development of future generations in just a few years? Seems highly unlikely to me.

Edited October 25, 2011 by euouae

[Realitycheck]

Just from a brief scan of the wiki, I can see that is absolutely nothing extraordinarily remarkable about this site. Basic neolithic construction based on most likely a hunter gatherer culture. Megalithic construction of up to 50 tons. This is the last site I would use for extraterrestrial intervention, but frankly, that's such a dead issue among knowledgeable circles that it's not even an issue.

[insane_alien]

I don't believe you understand the physics involved in building the Great Pyramid without the use of the wheel, cranes, lumber, ramps, etc. It is easy to say 'It's a stone structure that was built by primitive humans' but it is harder to explain how they actually did so without advanced mathematics, engineering and astronomy. Much less why they associated the construction with extraterrestrial influence. So humans went from drawing stick figures in caves to fabricating stories on stone to influence the development of future generations in just a few years? Seems highly unlikely to me.

 

right then, wheels, it is known logs were put under blocks to roll them along.

 

cranes, you don't need them, ramps will do just fine and you can use the partially finished constrction AS as ramp

 

lumber, carpentry is an old skill, egyptians were skilled boat builders. they knew carpentry.

 

as for advanced maths and engineering, you don't need much to know block A goes next to block B and block C goes on top. rinse and repeat.

 

advanced engineering and maths comes in when you are pushing your materials close to their limits, pyrimids don't do that.

 

as for a 'few generations' pyramids started off small and shoddy (the older ones are noticably less well built, simple rubble piles) and they progress to greater complexity and refinement as the CENTURIES go buy.

 

when you've got skilled craftsmen doing something for centuries you tend to get better and this is what we see.

 

invoking aliens is insulting to all parties. especially the aliens.

[JohnB]

I don't believe you understand the physics involved in building the Great Pyramid without the use of the wheel, cranes, lumber, ramps, etc. It is easy to say 'It's a stone structure that was built by primitive humans' but it is harder to explain how they actually did so without advanced mathematics, engineering and astronomy. Much less why they associated the construction with extraterrestrial influence. So humans went from drawing stick figures in caves to fabricating stories on stone to influence the development of future generations in just a few years? Seems highly unlikely to me.

 

Pharonic Egypt was founded around 5,000 YBP and had the earlier works of the Sumerians and Babylonians to build on.

 

Early tombs were mud brick Mastabas of a single level. These evolved into multi-level Mastabas during the Second and Third Dynasties. By the time of the Fourth Dynasty, when the Greater Pyramids were built (circa 4400 YBP) the Egyptians had had some 600 years worth of experience. They went from Mastabas to Multi-level Mastabas to Multi-level Masabas with a stone shell to the now classic fully stone pyramid. This process was not without some problems and evidence points to the mistakes.

 

By 2600 BC the founder of the Fourth Dynasty, Snofru, was able to build three pyramida during his reign. They were the Meidum pyramid, the "Red" pyramid and the far more interesting "Bent" pyramid. The Bent pyramid demonstrates the development of building techniques as it has a lower slope of 55 degrees and an upper of 43 degrees. This change occurred for the simple reason that the stone blocks used in building the lower levels began to crack and break. By changing the angle to the lower 43 degrees, there would be less stone on top and the pyramid would be less likely to collapse. The fractures in the stones are plainly visible to anybody who enters this pyramid. Notable, the "Red" pyramid, which was built immediately after the bent one has a constant angle of 43 degrees.

 

The bottom line here is that development to the stage of the Great Pyramid age took 4 Dynasties and at least 600 years of constant work, hardly "just a few years". And, if you look at the actual timeline you can quite clearly see the progression from basic to more complex building techniques used in monument building.

 

One must also be very careful not to confuse lack of theory with a lack of knowledge. While the Egyptians didn't have the advanced mathematical engineering theories and formula that we have today they did have a lot of practical experience in what did or didn't work. IOW, they might not have been able to say exactly why a certain structure built in a certain way would fall down, they just knew from practical experience that it would. Our ancestors were no dummies so please stop treating them as such.

 

I.A., I have to take exception to two of your points;

 

1. Log rollers were not used, or they were very rare. The Nile valley was always very short of good timber and none could be wasted on rollers, even timber for boat building was normally imported from the Lebanon region and it was extremely valuable. Larger items were moved on sleds with oil or water poured in front to aid in the sliding.

 

 

In this relief from the tomb of Djehutihotep in the 12th Dynasty, the oil/water pourer can be clearly seen on the front of the sledge.

 

2. When building a large structure like a pyramid, simply piling up the blocks (block A goes next to block B and block C goes on top. rinse and repeat.) is a recipe for disaster, the Bent pyramid demonstrates this very well. While they lacked advanced theories and would not be able to prove in the modern fashion why an approach would or wouldn't work, they had very advanced practical experience in both maths and engineering.

 

For example a modern engineer could use theory to understand exactly why an obelisk would break if the supporting ropes were more than 1 metre apart and place ropes accordingly, the Egyptians simply knew from experience that if the supporting ropes were more than 3 cubits apart the obelisk would break but couldn't say why.

[michel123456]

My position is that we have a false interpretation of the findings.

 

First of all, the development of techniques has nothing to do with intelligence. Ancient people were not dumb, then getting smarter and smarter until now. Some arborigen in some desert may be more intelligent than a surgeon in Washington D.C., other thing is knowledge, other thing is intelligence. Maybe Neanderthal was smarter than us, we simply don't know. The same goes for ancient civilisations: we don't know how smart they were. Most probably they were simply as smart as we are today.

 

Secondly, human constructions do not resist well through time. Not because they are not well done, but because humans tend to destroy systematically what has been constructed by others. Most churches are constructed upon ancient basement of paganic temples, sometimes neolithic sites. The same goes for fortresses, castles, cities, etc. As a result, most very ancient remains are in nowadays deserts. Not because ancient people liked to build in deserts, but because recent civilisations avoid to build (and destroy) in such inhospitable places.

 

So when someone discovers a wonderful site like Gobekli Tepe, he first should wonder how is it possible to have survived human destruction. Because if Gobekli Tepe was possible, there should be many Gobeklies examples over the world. The answer is that for some unknown reason the site was intentionaly covered. That is the reason why Gobekli survived. Most probably, other Gobeklies were destroyed and their stones used in some other works, as it is a very common way to find cheap construction material still today.

 

It is exactly as if you found a bone of some paleolithic human specie: that would not mean that it is the only single bone that existed in the paleolithic, that would mean that it is the only bone that survived.

 

If you were to find a hundred Gobeklies, maybe we would have another conception of what were the capabilities of those smart ancient people.

Edited October 26, 2011 by michel123456

[Moontanman]

Ancient Astronauts, if they exist, must be (or were) interacting with us on a much more subtle level than coming down and building huge megalithic buildings and religious sites around the world. Since it has been shown many times that making such large rock buildings and other sites, many of them religious, can be done over many years using thousands of, if not slaves then volunteers, even in modern times religious people do some amazing things dedicating their lives to things that seem to reinforce their belief in god or gods. I would be surprised to learn our ancestors didn't do this sort of thing.

 

If there is any truth to ancient astronauts it's more likely they inspired the religions that inspired humans to do some of the amazing things they did. I am surprised you didn't mention the ancient astronauts selectively breeding apes for intelligence so they could use us as slaves to mine minerals they needed from the earth, the result of this genetic manipulation was us, seems just as plausible...

[michel123456]

Related to astronauts & technology, there is another remark to observe:

 

As much technology evolves, as much we build we lights & lighter elements*, not with bigger elements.

For example, we begin with megalithic structures, then pyramids with huge blocks, then Greek temples with smaller blocks, then Roman bridges with bricks. Then Spanish fortresses with plate bricks, then construction with sand & gravel (concrete). Today construction with plaster board.

I suppose it is the consequence of labor cost. When you have slaves, labor costs almost nothing in relation to the cost of raw material. Today, material must be studied in order to reduce labor cost as possible. It seems to go in parallel with the increase of human wealth.

 

*I should have stated: elements easy to put in place.

 

---------------------

IOW the use of extremely large elements is not the footprint of a developped technology. Our developped technology is much more about microchips than a huge stone somewhere in a park, that interest only a few artists.

Edited October 26, 2011 by michel123456

[euouae]

All four sides of the Great Pyramids at Giza correspond perfectly to the four cardinal directions: North, South, East and West. Coincidence?

 

Giza pyramids correspond perfectly to the Orion constellation. Coincidence?

 

How would Egyptians illuminate interior corridors of the pyramids? Reflection of light off of copper surfaces? Impossible considering the degradation of UV reflection off of copper. Torches? No residue has been found on the interior ceilings to suggest the use of torches.

[Moontanman]

All four sides of the Great Pyramids at Giza correspond perfectly to the four cardinal directions: North, South, East and West. Coincidence?

 

Actually, i think most people who Study the ancient Egyptians think they did that on purpose...

 

Giza pyramids correspond perfectly to the Orion constellation. Coincidence?

 

Again, I think it's thought they did that by intent...

 

 

How would Egyptians illuminate interior corridors of the pyramids? Reflection of light off of copper surfaces? Impossible considering the degradation of UV reflection off of copper. Torches? No residue has been found on the interior ceilings to suggest the use of torches.

 

I'm not sure about this one but how does it suggest aliens? Maybe they used oil lamps?

[John Cuthber]

I think this "Reflection of light off of copper surfaces? Impossible considering the degradation of UV reflection off of copper. " counts as "not even wrong".

 

Why in the name of all that's holy would you give a damn if your mirror cannot reflect (UV) radiation that nobody knew about till 1801?

I mean, seriously, did you think about that or did it just fall out of your brain my mistake?

 

Incidentally, since most glass absorbs UV quite well and the light reflected from a normal mirror has to go through it twice, most modern mirrors don't reflect UV very well.

It may have escaped your notice, but they still work.

 

" No residue has been found on the interior ceilings to suggest the use of torches."

Did it cross your mind that, since this was, from their point of view, the everlasting house of their God, they might have cleaned up before they left?

[JohnB]

It should also be pointed out that most pyramids didn't require interior lighting anyway.

 

The Egyptians didn't pile up a lot of rock and then cut passages into them, the passages were built as part of the structure. So things like the "Grand Gallery" in the Great Pyramid were open at the top, allowing plenty of light inside. Underground passages and rooms were quite likely cut as part of the foundation work before any actual construction began and so didn't require as much lighting as they would if done later.

 

Also often forgotten is that until the Pyramid of Unas, there were no embellishments inside at all, no paintings or carvings of any kind. There would only need to be some sort of illumination when the actual burial rites were performed. Since there are reasonable grounds for doubt as to whether the early pyramids were actually tombs anyway it is quite possible that the reason there is no flame residue is simply that they were never entered again once finished.

 

(Reasonable grounds being the fact that no mummy, burial provisions, cloth, beads or any other artifacts have ever been found in any pyramid. While we do know that looting went on, the probability of such complete 100.00% clean ups is remote. Carter found many beads in the passageway leading to Tutanhkamuns tomb left behind from the first attempt to loot the tomb. While they were probably dropped by the looters, those who resealed the tomb made no attempt to clean up at and simply filled in the passage. There are other reasons but the big one for me is there is zero, zip, ziltch, nada, nothing to actually prove that anything was ever placed inside any pyramid.)

[Tres Juicy]

OK here it is...

 

The Egyptians were very clever people and although they did not have the maths to support their knowledge that does not mean they did not have the knowledge - skills passed down from generation to generation that worked very well, before people knew of gravity we did not float around in space - just because you cant describe it (mathematically) very well does not mean you cant understand it in some way or use it.

 

Many ancient cultures were obsessed with the stars (they are amazing even to me, I stare at them at night) and this is understandable and can be seen throughout history. They tracked their movements and mapped them quite accurately, the fact that they lined up stuctures with them is not accidental or surprising.

 

As for lighting http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/chaptera/index.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

 

This is a possibilty that I certainly cant rule out

 

Lastly, if aliens came to earth and built pyramids and gave us knowledge, where are they now? surely there would be a lot of empirical evidence that proved they were here (spaceships and remains).

 

Why would they do any of these things?

[There is more]

Let's assume they did quarry, move and set these stones. I would like to bring up the precision aspect. The very little I know about the technology we use to precision cut stones and other materials is already amazing to me. What truly amazes me is the industry standard is below that of some of these ancient cultures. There are many examples of precision cuts that we could not duplicate so perfectly today with lasers and computer driven machines. Forget the weight, there will always be an arguement. what should be focused on is the exactness and their compond miders, bevels, spherical objects and what appear to be laser cut enscriptions on the obelisks. Ancient man did things that could not have been done without technology.

 

 

 

Another point I would like to raise is the number of planets that exist. If there is life on this planet, only an arrogant fool would say theres not bound to be life on another. Especially since the number of planets is a number we cant contemplate. We are literally like a group of people on a tiny island that have never left and assume theres nothing else out there. It is not only sad but shows to arrogance of man. The creation story in the bible has been totally scientifically disproven yet our supposed best and brightest that run our government still support it. As a people it seems as if change scares most of us. I like to call it the ostrich syndrome (bury your head in the sand). A person that cant change their opinions or beliefs based on fact should be considered mentally unsound.

 

To believe that every culture invented their own religeons, all with very similar attributes is really rediculous. We now know a supernatural being didnt create us or the earth. SO.. What is left of alllll those "stories".

 

 

If your neighbor came to you and said he saw a chariot of fire come down from the sky and a god came out and spoke to him what would you think? Ofcourse assuming hes NOT crazy and you dont believe in "gods".

 

When I hear of a giant metal bird that spits fire and shakes the ground when it lands I do not think of a GOD. Ancient man was not stupid. They were simply ignorant. If you never saw a plane you would call it a bird.. or possibly a fire breathing dragon. You would assume a man being beamed up to a space ship was rising to heaven in a magical beam of light.

 

Once it all clicks its the most logical thing youve ever heard. Socially we've just been convinced its crazy. It all stems back to being repressed by religeon. We could be almost 1000 years more advanced if it werent for religeon. That tells me that the ancients saw things so amazing it created unmovable beliefs around the world they were just all misunderstood because of an ignorance they couldnt help. Its actually very simple and obvious once you see the "big picture" and let go of the social brainwashing youve recieved since birth.

 

 

It doesnt have to be as indepth as they tampered with our DNA. It could only be as simple as they visited, were mistaken for gods and took advantage of it to have a good time JUST as we might do in a similar situation. Since birth you learn that people that believe in aliens are crazy mainly because it goes against the god our government happens to believe in. Alot of the rejection of this theory is a mental challenge to social brainwashing. When you learn about how things work in the universe, in my mind it becomes rediculous to think anything else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets look at the US's education system and compare it to a relationship.

 

We know that our children have been lied to about countless supposed facts over the years because of that saying I love "an educated guess". They pretend that we didnt come here and basically have our own little indian holocaust. They tell our children that christopher columbus discovered america when rock hard evidence exists that Henry Sinclair and the templar knights came to america all the time for furs to fund their cause. They even had relationships with indian tribes that liked them so much they modeled their flags after the Sinclair crest. Columbus married into his family and magically "discovered" america.

 

The only reason those facts arent taught in school is because the historical community doesnt want to admit theyre wrong and have to recall and change every book in the US. This show of arrogance and not wanting to spend the money to change everything applies to all the newly discovered thousands of history changing facts.

 

Back to relationship comparison. If your significant other cheats on you and lies, if you have any self dignity you part ways with that individual. Why? Because you can no longer trust them or believe anything they say.

 

The US government and historical society matches this to a T. If they would lie to our children (basically brainwashing) what else would they do? We can no longer trust anything they present as facts. Its very simple and if you dont understand its because you just dont want to. Its the ostritch syndrome..

 

The government doesnt even aknowlege that the creation story in the bible has been totally disproven and they still supposedly support it.

 

They are not stupid, they are wealthy and powerful and have access to information we cant even contemplate. The only explanation for this is that they are pretending. I believe the reason is very simple. Control.

 

I guess my point is.. stop "eating the seed" every morning

[Moontanman]

Let's assume they did quarry, move and set these stones. I would like to bring up the precision aspect. The very little I know about the technology we use to precision cut stones and other materials is already amazing to me. What truly amazes me is the industry standard is below that of some of these ancient cultures. There are many examples of precision cuts that we could not duplicate so perfectly today with lasers and computer driven machines. Forget the weight, there will always be an arguement. what should be focused on is the exactness and their compond miders, bevels, spherical objects and what appear to be laser cut enscriptions on the obelisks. Ancient man did things that could not have been done without technology.

 

This happens to be one of my lines of interest, I would like to see some support for your assertions of advanced technology being used other than they couldn't have done it. Ancient humans were not stupid, they did some amazing things.

 

Another point I would like to raise is the number of planets that exist. If there is life on this planet, only an arrogant fool would say theres not bound to be life on another. Especially since the number of planets is a number we cant contemplate. We are literally like a group of people on a tiny island that have never left and assume theres nothing else out there. It is not only sad but shows to arrogance of man. The creation story in the bible has been totally scientifically disproven yet our supposed best and brightest that run our government still support it. As a people it seems as if change scares most of us. I like to call it the ostrich syndrome (bury your head in the sand). A person that cant change their opinions or beliefs based on fact should be considered mentally unsound.

 

While I agree that life on other planets almost certainly exists, yes even intelligent life but you have to provide some idea of how and why they came here. It's difficult to imagine even a 4.5 light year jaunt just to screw with the natives...

 

To believe that every culture invented their own religeons, all with very similar attributes is really rediculous. We now know a supernatural being didnt create us or the earth. SO.. What is left of alllll those "stories".

 

Visiting aliens is one hypothesis, as far as I know it has little support, if you have info to the contrary I suggest you post links to it.

 

If your neighbor came to you and said he saw a chariot of fire come down from the sky and a god came out and spoke to him what would you think? Ofcourse assuming hes NOT crazy and you dont believe in "gods".

 

I would assume technology of some kind but I wouldn't assert it as fact until i had more evidence.

 

When I hear of a giant metal bird that spits fire and shakes the ground when it lands I do not think of a GOD. Ancient man was not stupid. They were simply ignorant. If you never saw a plane you would call it a bird.. or possibly a fire breathing dragon. You would assume a man being beamed up to a space ship was rising to heaven in a magical beam of light.

 

Yes, I understand the implications of such reports if taken at face value, something that is difficult to do in the face of zero evidence.

 

Once it all clicks its the most logical thing youve ever heard. Socially we've just been convinced its crazy. It all stems back to being repressed by religeon. We could be almost 1000 years more advanced if it werent for religeon. That tells me that the ancients saw things so amazing it created unmovable beliefs around the world they were just all misunderstood because of an ignorance they couldnt help. Its actually very simple and obvious once you see the "big picture" and let go of the social brainwashing youve recieved since birth.

 

Again, i see your point but can you support your point with anything but conjecture?

 

It doesnt have to be as indepth as they tampered with our DNA. It could only be as simple as they visited, were mistaken for gods and took advantage of it to have a good time JUST as we might do in a similar situation. Since birth you learn that people that believe in aliens are crazy mainly because it goes against the god our government happens to believe in. Alot of the rejection of this theory is a mental challenge to social brainwashing. When you learn about how things work in the universe, in my mind it becomes rediculous to think anything else.

 

Again, I understand your assertion but do you have any evidence to support it?

 

Lets look at the US's education system and compare it to a relationship.

 

We know that our children have been lied to about countless supposed facts over the years because of that saying I love "an educated guess". They pretend that we didnt come here and basically have our own little indian holocaust. They tell our children that christopher columbus discovered america when rock hard evidence exists that Henry Sinclair and the templar knights came to america all the time for furs to fund their cause. They even had relationships with indian tribes that liked them so much they modeled their flags after the Sinclair crest. Columbus married into his family and magically "discovered" america.

 

Again can you support that assertion with anything other than your own assertion?

 

The only reason those facts arent taught in school is because the historical community doesnt want to admit theyre wrong and have to recall and change every book in the US. This show of arrogance and not wanting to spend the money to change everything applies to all the newly discovered thousands of history changing facts.

 

I call bullshit on that one...

 

Back to relationship comparison. If your significant other cheats on you and lies, if you have any self dignity you part ways with that individual. Why? Because you can no longer trust them or believe anything they say.

 

The US government and historical society matches this to a T. If they would lie to our children (basically brainwashing) what else would they do? We can no longer trust anything they present as facts. Its very simple and if you dont understand its because you just dont want to. Its the ostritch syndrome..

 

The government doesnt even aknowlege that the creation story in the bible has been totally disproven and they still supposedly support it.

 

They are not stupid, they are wealthy and powerful and have access to information we cant even contemplate. The only explanation for this is that they are pretending. I believe the reason is very simple. Control.

 

I guess my point is.. stop "eating the seed" every morning

 

I'm not sure I understand what eating the seed means but most of the stuff you claim as organized lying on a grand scale can be more easily explained by ignorance, stupidity, and the fear caused by religious indoctrination with out any hidden alien agenda being present.

 

And by the way 50 ton carved blocks are not the largest stones quarried and moved and put in place by humans, 800 ton blocks were also done this way.

 

http://ancientmystery.info/Baalbek.htm

[John Cuthber]

Go to the local churchyard and you will see grave stones cut to very high precision and with names etc cut into them. Then look at the dates. Plenty of them predate lasers and such.

You simply don't understand what people can do using their skill.

[There is more]

I firmly believe that if some one doesn't want to believe something, no matter how many facts you give they will reject them. So this will be my last post as not to waste my time. It is very difficult to argue against brainwashed people. They just get angry when you tell them theyre brainwashed and are even less likely to accept facts.

 

 

[John Cuthber]

I firmly believe that if some one doesn't want to believe something, no matter how many facts you give they will reject them. So this will be my last post as not to waste my time. It is very difficult to argue against brainwashed people. They just get angry when you tell them theyre brainwashed and are even less likely to accept facts.

It seems they won't even accept one fact: there are inscriptions on gravestones that were cut in with chisels many years ago.

[Aethelwulf]

 

as for a 'few generations' pyramids started off small and shoddy (the older ones are noticably less well built, simple rubble piles) and they progress to greater complexity and refinement as the CENTURIES go buy.

.

 

We actually don't know if they started off small and shoddy. State of the art technology using infra red has mapped out an entire civilization of Egypt - over 90% more than what we realized to be there in the first place and tens of tens of more pyramids have been discovered lurking under the hot sands of the desert.

 

No doubt they have found more: http://earthsky.org/human-world/egyptologists-discover-17-new-pyramids

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13522957

[insane_alien]

We actually don't know if they started off small and shoddy. State of the art technology using infra red has mapped out an entire civilization of Egypt - over 90% more than what we realized to be there in the first place and tens of tens of more pyramids have been discovered lurking under the hot sands of the desert.

 

actually we do. All the early pyramids observed are of poorer build quality and much simpler in design than later pyramids. they also tend to be smaller. we also see mistakes in the construction of early pyramids (such as making them large with too steep an angle) that are not repeated in later constructions.

 

The point is we see a progression in pyramid architecture from simple piles of rock up to the great pyramid's that are icons for ancient egypt even to this day. EXACTLY the kind of thing you would expect to see humans do on working up to great achievements like the great pyramid. case and point, rockets. a future historian looking back would look at the saturn rockets (which are referenced a lot) and go 'golly thats an awful complex rocket, they must have had help with that' and would continue thinking that if they didn't also look at its predecessors, jupiter, atlas, redstone, etc. etc.

 

looking at the great pyramid in isolation also makes you think 'golly thats an awful big pyramid, they must have had help with that' until you look at other pyramids and realise that there was a slow progression of talent.

 

yes there are pyramids we haven't observed, but unless they buck the trend seen in the rest of them (and there is no evidence to think that they will) then there isn't much to say.

 

if we un earth a new pyramid and it has complex construction using late pyramid building techniques but is older than the rest of them, THEN you'll have something to jump on. until then, occams razor suggests it was humans all the way.

 

the only reason pyramid building fell out of knowledge is because nobody else could afford, or wanted to devote so many resources to building a pile of rocks.

[Aethelwulf]

actually we do. All the early pyramids observed are of poorer build quality and much simpler in design than later pyramids.

 

 

No actually we don't. If we are basing this on Egyptian culture, we have only seen a small percentage of all the pyramids. I showed you this. How can you base an ''earlier'' picture on an incomplete set of information?

 

 

 

[dapifo]

All dates are approximated by research and are designated as Years Before Present.

 

(Stone Age)

200000 - 150000 YBP - Mitochondrial Ancestor in Africa

150000 - 125000 YBP - Y-Chromosomal Ancestor in Africa

70000 - 60000 YBP - First successful migration out of Africa

14000 - 11500 YBP - Earliest Known Sedentarization in Eastern Mediterranean

14000 - 10000 YBP - Evidence of habitation in Egypt

(Start of current Interglacial Period)

11000 YBP - Construction of Göbekli Tepe (Radiocarbon)

(Bronze Age)

7300 YBP - Earliest Civilization: Mesopotamia Settled

6000 YBP - Earliest wheeled vehicles

5200 YBP - Start of Egyptian Dynasty

5100 YBP - Start of historic record in Sumer/Egypt

5000 YBP - Archaeologists: Earliest possible construction of Great Pyramid at Giza

5000 YBP - Earliest possible Metrology in Mesopotamia

4900 YBP - Earliest possible Metrology in Egypt

4900 YBP - First King of Sumeria after "Great Deluge"

4500 YBP - Construction of Stonehenge

4500 YBP - Earliest known written mathematics in Sumeria

4500 YBP - Earliest written record of Creation/Deluge myths

4100 - 3500 YBP - Start of Chinese Dynasty

4000 YBP - Archaeologists: Latest possible construction of Great Pyramid at Giza

3900 YBP - Earliest known Egyptian Mathematics

3500 YBP - Earliest known written sighting of Flying Objects

(Iron Age)

2800 YBP - Ancient Rome settled

2600 YBP - Ancient Greeks invent Crane

2550 YBP - Precise cuts in stone at Pumapunku

2500 YBP - Start of Persian Empire

2200 YBP - Great Pyramid at Giza first written reference

 

Argument points:

 

Göbekli Tepe built before Bronze Age, immediately after the last glacial period, before humans discover the wheel, before first human civilization, before human metrology/mathematics.

 

Great Pyramid at Giza built around/before earliest Egyptian metrology/mathematics and at the beginning of the Bronze Age.

 

Since the beginning of written history, humans have documented extraterrestrial sightings, encounters and influence. If early humans were capable of intelligently engineering and constructing massive stone structures, why would they fabricate myths about these structures being constructed by extraterrestrials? And why do all early accounts of extraterrestrials describe at least two opposing factions with opposite intentions for humans?

 

If simple and complex life exists on Earth, and we have found extraterrestrial fossilized simple cells, then the probability of extraterrestrial complex/intelligent life must be assigned a value.

 

If the human species are the sole product of molecular self replication, then what was the first replicator? And why are we the only species that has developed an intelligence gene.

 

Is it really so far fetched that we are the product of advanced genetic engineering that even we ourselves are on the verge of achieving?

 

IF YOU READ TO ZECHARIA SITCHIN...YOU WILL UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THINGS.

 

 

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin

Edited June 24, 2012 by dapifo

[John Cuthber]

I already understand a lot of things, but the purpose of that post isn't one of them.

 

The English-language version of WIKI tells you more about him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin#Astronomical_and_scientific_observations

 

It says things like "Sitchin's ideas were rejected by scientists and academics, who dismiss his work as pseudoscience and pseudohistory. Sitchin's work has been criticized for flawed methodology and mistranslations of ancient texts as well as for incorrect astronomical and scientific claims"

Edited June 24, 2012 by John Cuthber

[insane_alien]

No actually we don't. If we are basing this on Egyptian culture, we have only seen a small percentage of all the pyramids. I showed you this. How can you base an ''earlier'' picture on an incomplete set of information?

 

the link you gave was for 17 previously undiscovered pyramids. as this was the first survey, lets be generous and say there are 30 more for 47 undiscovered pyramids.

 

the number of pyramids examined (not counting the above mentioned) = 138 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids )

 

so of a total (est.) 185 pyramids, we have sampled 138. 74.6% sampling is plenty good enough and definitely not a small percentage. Even if there were 1000 pyramids undiscovered, 138 is a decent sample size.

 

we have a broad range in our sample too. covering upper and lower kingdoms and millenia of development.

 

again, unless we discover a pyramid thats out of place in the developmental timelines then there is NOTHING to suggest external help.