Highest Temperature Possible

[Airbrush]

In a previous discussion "Stellar cores - how hot really?" it was mentioned that during the one second in which a Type II supernova creates half the elements heavier then iron, the temperature reaches about FIVE Billion Kelvin.

 

Then a poster said something about a neutron star (at its' core I suppose) the temperature may reach about ONE Trillion Kelvin.

 

Baric: "Temperature is a measure of the average speed of the particles contained within the sample being measured. At some early point after the Big Bang you are no longer dealing with particles so the notion of temperature doesn't apply, at least in a traditional sense.

 

"Also, neutron stars start out at about one trillion Kelvin before cooling down, which is 10 times the temperature you listed."

 

At 1/100 of a second after the Big Bang the temperature was about 100 Billion Kelvin. Before that there may not have even been particles in the traditional sense, so temperature may be meaningless. Does anyone know if temperatures higher than ONE Trillion Kelvin are possible, even after only a Billionth or Trillionth of a second after the Big Bang?

Edited November 2, 2011 by Airbrush

[baric]

One trillion degrees for a neutron star is already a hypothetical estimate, so remember that you are dealing with large uncertainties at these extremes.

 

The bottom line is that not all questions have answers, especially those dealing with extreme conditions (temperature, velocity, gravity, pressure, etc) that are nearly impossible or extraordinarily expensive to reproduce.

[questionposter]

In a previous discussion "Stellar cores - how hot really?" it was mentioned that during the one second in which a Type II supernova creates half the elements heavier then iron, the temperature reaches about FIVE Billion Kelvin.

 

Then a poster said something about a neutron star (at its' core I suppose) the temperature may reach about ONE Trillion Kelvin.

 

Baric: "Temperature is a measure of the average speed of the particles contained within the sample being measured. At some early point after the Big Bang you are no longer dealing with particles so the notion of temperature doesn't apply, at least in a traditional sense.

 

"Also, neutron stars start out at about one trillion Kelvin before cooling down, which is 10 times the temperature you listed."

 

At 1/100 of a second after the Big Bang the temperature was about 100 Billion Kelvin. Before that there may not have even been particles in the traditional sense, so temperature may be meaningless. Does anyone know if temperatures higher than ONE Trillion Kelvin are possible, even after only a Billionth or Trillionth of a second after the Big Bang?

 

http://en.wikipedia....%93gluon_plasma

 

Quark gluon plasmas were created at around 4 thousand billion degrees Celsius, which converted to kelvin (minus something like 273), it's still greater in kelvin. But, I have no idea how we could possibly know the temperature right after the big bang. 1 trillion equals 100 billion, so one thousand billion is one power greater than than trillion, and then times 4 and minus 273 and you have a temperature higher than a trillion which is the same as 100 billion.

Edited November 2, 2011 by questionposter

[Realitycheck]

Regarding this last sentence, a trillion equals a thousand billion.

 

They're all just estimates based on mathematical constructs.

[questionposter]

Regarding this last sentence, a trillion equals a thousand billion.

 

They're all just estimates based on mathematical constructs.

 

Well w/e its still hotter in Kelvin.

[Airbrush]

"In traditional big bang cosmology, the Electroweak epoch begins 10^–36 seconds after the Big Bang, when the temperature of the universe is low enough (10^28 K) to separate the strong force from the electroweak force (the name for the unified forces of electromagnetism and the weak interaction). In inflationary cosmology, the electroweak epoch begins when the inflationary epoch ends, at roughly 10^–32 seconds."

 

Questionposter provided the link to the highest temperature I've ever seen, thank you very much, 10 to the 28th power Kelvin. That is approx 10 Octillion Kelvin, which is a Trillion times a Trillion times 10,000 Kelvin. That would be approx 18 Octillion Fahrenheit.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Big_Bang#Very_early_universe

Edited November 3, 2011 by Airbrush

[imatfaal]

what's all this nonsense with fahrenheit and celsius, and not using standard form to represent large numbers.

 

science and calculations in general are much easier if you stick to agreed units and ways of expressing numbers

 

10^9 and 10^12 are simple and avoid confusion and temperatures are stated in kelvin.

 

so far in this thread we have had a trillion equals 100 billion, converting extreme temperature to celsius and fahrenheit, and that 10^28 is approximately 10 octillion; this demonstrates why we stick to agreed systems of units and standard form

[CaptainPanic]

http://en.wikipedia....%93gluon_plasma

 

Quark gluon plasmas were created at around 4 thousand billion degrees Celsius, which converted to kelvin (minus something like 273), it's still greater in kelvin. But, I have no idea how we could possibly know the temperature right after the big bang. 1 trillion equals 100 billion, so one thousand billion is one power greater than than trillion, and then times 4 and minus 273 and you have a temperature higher than a trillion which is the same as 100 billion.

umm...

 

The million, billion, trillion set goes with multiples of 1000. So, a trillion is 1000 billion, not 100. It is explained here on wikipedia.

 

And at the temperatures you're talking about, you might as well say that Kelvin is the same as Celsius (in other words: the difference of 273 degrees is completely insignificant).

 

Well w/e its still hotter in Kelvin.

Nope. The temperature is actually still the same... but the number that we use to express it is higher.

 

What you say is that 298.15 K is hotter than 25 deg C. It's not. It is the same.

Edited November 3, 2011 by CaptainPanic

[baric]

what's all this nonsense with fahrenheit and celsius, and not using standard form to represent large numbers.

 

In addition, all of these numbers are very rough hypothetical estimates based on mathematical models.

 

They are as accurate as my attempts at throwing darts... in the right direction, but that's about it. Arguing over precision is extremely premature.

[Airbrush]

umm...

 

The million, billion, trillion set goes with multiples of 1000. So, a trillion is 1000 billion, not 100. It is explained here on wikipedia.

 

And at the temperatures you're talking about, you might as well say that Kelvin is the same as Celsius (in other words: the difference of 273 degrees is completely insignificant).

 

 

Nope. The temperature is actually still the same... but the number that we use to express it is higher.

 

What you say is that 298.15 K is hotter than 25 deg C. It's not. It is the same.

 

Well said Captain, at such high temperatures, Celsius and Kelvin are approx the same. Fahrenheit is approx 1.8 times Kelvin, a significant difference. Kelvin is certainly standard, and I appreciate that, but I will convert it to F in my mind because I am a nonscientist.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Airbrush

[questionposter]

umm...

 

The million, billion, trillion set goes with multiples of 1000. So, a trillion is 1000 billion, not 100. It is explained here on wikipedia.

 

And at the temperatures you're talking about, you might as well say that Kelvin is the same as Celsius (in other words: the difference of 273 degrees is completely insignificant).

 

 

Nope. The temperature is actually still the same... but the number that we use to express it is higher.

 

What you say is that 298.15 K is hotter than 25 deg C. It's not. It is the same.

 

Ok, so 4 trillion is bigger than 1 trillion, are you happy with that? Do you wanna break that down some for everyone so they can understand?

Edited November 3, 2011 by questionposter

[Mystery111]

Wow... I was awash with negative vibes reading this.

[questionposter]

Wow... I was awash with negative vibes reading this.

 

It wasn't really meant to be negative, but you seemed to make a bigger deal out of the situation that you had to. Temperatures higher than 1000 billion K have been achieved according to experiments.

[CaptainPanic]

Ok, so 4 trillion is bigger than 1 trillion, are you happy with that? Do you wanna break that down some for everyone so they can understand?

I gave you an objective remark about your post. Use it to learn if you like.

 

You do not post on this forum to please me, I hope. I hope you're here to learn and share insights. You made an error in your post, and then you reply in a way that suggests you're annoyed that someone corrected you. I do not understand why, but maybe I misunderstood the tone of your post.

 

Anyway, one of my points was: 4 trillion is 4 times bigger than 1 trillion. The difference is 400%. That is a significant difference.

But 273 degrees of 4 trillion is 0.000000006% of 4 trillion, which is utterly insignificant. So, you don't really have to correct for it, and at such temperatures and such uncertainties you might as well say that celsius and kelvin are the same.

[questionposter]

I gave you an objective remark about your post. Use it to learn if you like.

 

You do not post on this forum to please me, I hope. I hope you're here to learn and share insights. You made an error in your post, and then you reply in a way that suggests you're annoyed that someone corrected you. I do not understand why, but maybe I misunderstood the tone of your post.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "it's not what you say, it's how you say it?"

 

Anyway, one of my points was: 4 trillion is 4 times bigger than 1 trillion. The difference is 400%. That is a significant difference.

But 273 degrees of 4 trillion is 0.000000006% of 4 trillion, which is utterly insignificant. So, you don't really have to correct for it, and at such temperatures and such uncertainties you might as well say that celsius and kelvin are the same.

 

I see what you mean, it doesn't really matter, but someone might have brought up the point "Well wait, that's in Celsius or Fahrenheit, not Kelvin".

[CaptainPanic]

Have you ever heard the phrase "it's not what you say, it's how you say it?"

 

Ok, a little more seriously, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

When it comes to science, I am indeed quite direct. I find that the most functional way to communicate. It avoids confusion.

 

Obviously, Fahrenheit is a very different story from Kelvin or Celsius. Fahrenheit, in this case, does make a difference, since 1 degree Fahrenheit is just 5/9th of a degree C or K.

[John Cuthber]

It all rather depends on the definition of temperature.

The temperature of the active material in a laser is, from at least one point of view, negative. As it cools down it goes through an infinite temperature.

[Moontanman]

I vaguely remember a article by Issac Asimov about the highest possible temperature, something about the molecules vibrating at very close to light speed... now I'll have to dig that old book out....

[questionposter]

I vaguely remember a article by Issac Asimov about the highest possible temperature, something about the molecules vibrating at very close to light speed... now I'll have to dig that old book out....

 

There's still no limit even if molecules vibrate at near the speed of light other than I suppose the speed of light, but you could keep getting infinitely closer to the speed of light.

 

Other than that though, not all heat is just atoms vibrating, it's also photons and energy level, and I don't see a limit with that unless matter can become so hot that it is no longer matter, but something else that was probably around the first 1*10^-44 seconds during the big bang.

[Iggy]

The million, billion, trillion set goes with multiples of 1000. So, a trillion is 1000 billion, not 100. It is explained here on wikipedia.

Agreed that the bases are never multiples of 100. But, (it might be worth pointing out) that they are multiples of 1,000 in some countries and multiples of 1,000,000 in others.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales