Theist. Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

[Greatest I am]

Theist. Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

 

Dogma says that God evicted Satan from heaven because he would not bow to man.

 

God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan. We know this because he used it to tempt Jesus. His dominion thus had to be real or the temptation is a lie.

 

Dogma also says that through Jesus is now the only way for man to reach heaven. The hierarchy of powers over man seems to thus be God at the top, if allowed by Jesus. Second would be Satan as man’s rightful sovereign. Third would be Jesus who usurped the position of the Trinity as the final judge for our admittance to heaven.

 

The various position of the three mentioned can be argued but regardless of who is where, it still means that there are three invisible supernatural entities above man.

 

This is contrary to the fact that God initially wanted man to be in the third position and not the forth.

 

In nature, something man is a part of, all entities look to their own for guidance, laws and example to follow. Man breaks this natural pattern by placing three silent and invisible alien entities above us. A Father God who shows himself to not be a very good parent in Eden. A Satan entity who, even though is supposed to represent evil, is given sovereignty over man after God clawed back that dominion from us. And finally a Jesus entity who offers the greatest example of love, as well as the greatest example of hate as the gateway to heaven and hell.

 

We are learning that it is a good idea to work along with nature and not spoil it. Climate change being the teacher. We may be living souls but we must be human and natural first in order for the soul to have a home.

 

Why then are you, a human, going against nature by placing some other entity above you for the example, leadership and salvation that you think you need? That is counter to all of natures examples to us?

 

Much is said of the so called free will that God is said to have given man. Yet we all know what happened to Adam and Eve the moment they exercised their will and not the will of God. It was not pretty. God set the conditions for their death and I call that murder. We can see that God does not allow man a free will.

 

Why are you self deprecating yourself to a secondary position to an unknowable master? Why have you given up your free will to the will of an alien entity who basically says that if you do not do his will, you will burn for eternity? A threat from a tyrant and not free will at all.

 

To me, that is like a slave deciding to venerate and adore his owner.

 

Why are you not choosing your natural position of leadership or following human leadership? Why are you choosing a position that is basically of a slave?

 

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

 

John 8 44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

 

If Satan is our earthly King and father as scripture says, are you to serve Satan with deep respect and fear, or Jesus, who has no authority or dominion on earth?

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

[seriously disabled]

There is a high probability that neither Satan nor God really exist except in the imagination of errant men.

 

Satan makes more sense to me however because of all the bad things happening to good people in this world.

Edited November 27, 2011 by seriously disabled

[Tres Juicy]

You're suggesting we should be devil worshippers?

[Realitycheck]

The sun, stars, supernovae, galaxies, gravity, expansion, water, fire, radioactivity. These are my heaven and hell is something that somebody devised to scare the masses into submission. Yet I propose that when educated, man or woman has no need to break the law. For it is utopia which calls out to those who see the sense in harmony as long as they dispel with senseless, lawless greed and rise above their misery, breaking the flimsy chains of sloth. Why do you keep beating this dead horse about the Bible being obsolete? Are you just content with being SFE's perennial Bible beater?

[Jaden]

John 8 44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

If Satan is our earthly King and father as scripture says, are you to serve Satan with deep respect and fear, or Jesus, who has no authority or dominion on earth?

 

 

My understanding is that we are supposed to follow the example set by Jesus, by resisting the temptations of Satan. Jesus (in John 8 44) was speaking to those who were rejecting God's will, and so were allowing Satan to be their master. It seems you have taken it out of context, by assuming that Jesus was speaking to all humans rather than just those who rejected Him.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Jaden

[Essay]

God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan.

Somehow!?!

 

Well, there is your problem. You don't see how "temptation" is simply the neglect of that responsibility for our dominion in Eden. You seem to think temptation is something external, somehow coming from a "satanic" source; but it is not external. It could simply be the lack of harmony with "the way" or "the path," oneness or godheadness or godliness--the dominion we have a responsibility (choice) to sustain.

 

~imho

Edited December 16, 2011 by Essay

[Jaden]

Well, there is your problem.

 

Are you referring to myself or 'Greatest I Am' or someone else?

[Essay]

Are you referring to myself or 'Greatest I Am' or someone else?

...just the OP quoted.

[Jaden]

...just the OP quoted.

 

Okay. I was just unsure as it would have made sense if you were referring to either of us

[charles brough]

Theist. Who is your Lord and Monarch? Satan or Jesus?

 

Dogma says that God evicted Satan from heaven because he would not bow to man.

 

God also gave man dominion in Eden and this sovereignty was somehow given to Satan. We know this because he used it to tempt Jesus. His dominion thus had to be real or the temptation is a lie.

 

Dogma also says that through Jesus is now the only way for man to reach heaven. The hierarchy of powers over man seems to thus be God at the top, if allowed by Jesus. Second would be Satan as man's rightful sovereign. Third would be Jesus who usurped the position of the Trinity as the final judge for our admittance to heaven.

 

The various position of the three mentioned can be argued but regardless of who is where, it still means that there are three invisible supernatural entities above man.

 

John 8 4Th4

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

 

If Satan is our earthly King and father as scripture says, are you to serve Satan with deep respect and fear, or Jesus, who has no authority or dominion on earth? Regards DL

While the quote from st. Paul uses "ye" to represent a supposedly "bad" person (it is not entended to mean man in general), there is much evidence in the Bible that Satan is regarded as a god and is even refered to as such in one part of the scriptures. Also, the so-called "Last Days" in Revelations depicts a desperate God in a titanic end-times struggle to the death with Satan, a god who was so powerful in the mythology that he could change Adam and Eve and force God to banish them "cursed forever" as sinful beings.

 

To me, the whole point here is not that the Bible infers Christians should worship Satan but that the religion actually has four gods, that is God, Jesus, Satan and Mary. Even the Pope offers prayers to her . . . In my book, I refer to Christianity is "a near-monotheism" because it at least has fewer gods than the ancient polytheisms which listed literally thousands of gods.

[imatfaal]

While the quote from st. Paul uses "ye" to represent a supposedly "bad" person (it is not entended to mean man in general), there is much evidence in the Bible that Satan is regarded as a god and is even refered to as such in one part of the scriptures. Also, the so-called "Last Days" in Revelations depicts a desperate God in a titanic end-times struggle to the death with Satan, a god who was so powerful in the mythology that he could change Adam and Eve and force God to banish them "cursed forever" as sinful beings.

 

To me, the whole point here is not that the Bible infers Christians should worship Satan but that the religion actually has four gods, that is God, Jesus, Satan and Mary. Even the Pope offers prayers to her . . . In my book, I refer to Christianity is "a near-monotheism" because it at least has fewer gods than the ancient polytheisms which listed literally thousands of gods.

 

St Paul? John perhaps.

The "ye" represents those who do not accept Christ as the the Son of Man and the saviour and will condemn him - so it is pretty wide ranging

 

What evidence in the bible shows that Satan is a god - he is only mentioned a handful of times. He is a tempter who seems to be in the service of god in the ot and not in the nt - but at no point is he credited as god.

 

X'ity does not have four gods - whilst the trinity is a bad hodge-podge, Satan is not a god and neither is Mary. Prayers to Mary and to the saints ask for intercession or guidance, prayers to satan are not X'ity.

 

very few religions that predate X'ity and can be seen as a single religion have "literally thousands" of deities - with a thousand gods you risk forgetting one, and that cannot be good news

 

and just for the record - I am a card carrying atheist; but one who believe that the best way to persuade people of religion's folly is through rational argument, not through misrepresentation.