Capacitor plates

[YT2095]

a capacitor basicly consists of 2 conductive plates seperated by a dielctric.

 

the dielectric can be Air, or even a vacuum, as thermionic Valves have capacitance ratings between internal conductors.

 

so could 2 metal plates in Space be charged as a capacitor, and if so, what difference in each plates properties may be observed?

 

is plate distance by seperation a factor at all (in space).

[swansont]

Yes, you can do it. The dielectric constant of a vacuum is 1.

 

Capacitance is inversely related to separation distance.

[YT2095]

so with 2 plates highly charged in space (outer), what properties or difference in properties would be observed for each, with regards to Ions and or space particles (hydrogen for example or solar Ions).

would one attract and one repel these?

[swansont]

so with 2 plates highly charged in space (outer)' date=' what properties or difference in properties would be observed for each, with regards to Ions and or space particles (hydrogen for example or solar Ions).

would one attract and one repel these?[/quote']

 

Anything charged would be affected by the electric field the plates generated.

[YT2095]

so is it possible to have 2 charged plates + and - and remove the + one without affecting the - one?

 

effectively leaving a negatively charged plate in space?

[swansont]

so is it possible to have 2 charged plates + and - and remove the + one without affecting the - one?

 

effectively leaving a negatively charged plate in space?

 

Sure. You would have to do work to do the separation.

[YT2095]

and so if the plate arrangement were to be a sphere as plate one surrounded by a larger sphere but in to contact other than the dielectric with the power source inside, would it be possible to charge them both up leaving the outermost sphere either + or - charged, or is it only charged relative to the other plate (inner shere)?

[swansont]

The charge is going to be relative, since you are moving charges from one to the other. With the device by itself, you couldn't get them both to have + charges, or both have - charges. One plate or shell is going to be +, while the other will be - .

[Ophiolite]

Are you trying to build a flying saucer YT?

[Douglas]

and so if the plate arrangement were to be a sphere as plate one surrounded by a larger sphere but in to contact other than the dielectric with the power source inside, would it be possible to charge them both up leaving the outermost sphere either + or - charged, or is it only charged relative to the other plate (inner shere)?

Yes, the charge is relative to the other plate.

 

What kind of a power source is attached to the capacitor, I.E. ac or dc ?

[YT2095]

HT DC.

 

and no it`s not an idea for a ufo it`s an idea to protect space vehicles against some of the ionised particles that can make crew Ill.

I wondered if it would be possible to charge the outer hull plating, with rellation to the inner plating, maybe it would make some difference.

but UFO or means of propulsion it isn`t

[swansont]

HT DC.

 

and no it`s not an idea for a ufo it`s an idea to protect space vehicles against some of the ionised particles that can make crew Ill.

I wondered if it would be possible to charge the outer hull plating' date=' with rellation to the inner plating, maybe it would make some difference.

but UFO or means of propulsion it isn`t [/quote']

 

In space it's not so much that the particles are ionized, it's that they are really high energy. Having a few kV of potential difference in a capacitor isn't going to do much against particles that have several MeV of kinetic energy.

[YT2095]

I was actualy considering in the region of several Mev.

 

2 spheres, one inside the other, seperated by a vacuum dielectric, and thw workings and inhabitanst being inside the inner sphere, a bit like the double hulled Ocean vessels that are used today, with the difference of electrical isolation between them, and being charged.

 

it seemed a better idea than using lead sheilding (launch costs for weight etc...).

maybe something Active could be used instead, a repellant as opposed to an absorber.

with the added advantage of being able to reverse polarity at anytime depending on conditions.

 

sort of an Active Farraday cage

[Douglas]

I was actualy considering in the region of several Mev.

 

2 spheres' date=' one inside the other, seperated by a vacuum dielectric, and thw workings and inhabitanst being inside the inner sphere, a bit like the double hulled Ocean vessels that are used today, with the difference of electrical isolation between them, and being charged.

 

it seemed a better idea than using lead sheilding (launch costs for weight etc...).

maybe something Active could be used instead, a repellant as opposed to an absorber.

with the added advantage of being able to reverse polarity at anytime depending on conditions.

 

sort of an Active Farraday cage [/quote']

Talking about lead shielding, we used to use Mu Metal (µ metal) for shielding.

[YT2095]

Talking about lead shielding, we used to use Mu Metal (µ metal) for shielding.

WE?

[Douglas]

WE?

WE....When I worked for Lockheed Martin's electronics sector, surveillance systems and space systems division.

 

Space systems, where I first came across the term "mouse farts". If you came under budget on weight and space, they could add more mouse farts.

[YT2095]

ROFLOL! forgive me, but "Mouse farts"? I`m not sure whether it`s the picture it conjurs up or the fact that Sci guys use it (although I`ve heard worse, so it`s prolly the pic).

 

but what (at the risk of falling into something I wished I hadn`t) Is a "Mouse Fart"

 

I hope I don`t regret asking this! )

[Douglas]

ROFLOL! forgive me' date=' but "Mouse farts"? I`m not sure whether it`s the picture it conjurs up or the fact that Sci guys use it (although I`ve heard worse, so it`s prolly the pic).

 

but what (at the risk of falling into something I wished I hadn`t) Is a "Mouse Fart"

 

I hope I don`t regret asking this! )[/quote']

YT, No, I wasn't kidding. Mouse farts are little bursts of air to keep synchronous satellites positioned where they ought to be. I was told that when a satellite fails, it's not from electronic failure, but they ran out of mouse farts. Which was why we tried to preserve as much room as possible for extra mouse farts. If we had to use elephant farts, I guess the satellites wouldn't last long.

 

I was working on developing a phase lock loop to synchronize the "time" of a master satellite with a cesium or rubidium master clock with several other satellites.

[YT2095]

aha! , yes I understand what ya mean now

 

the little minute thrusters needed to alter a position by a "Gnats Bollock" <--- that`s a British saying meaning a tiny amount

 

I`m familiar with quite a bit of PLL tech, what were you using? and where was it`s input phase taken from in space (uplink coords from Earth based beacons or other sats)?

 

and how does it relate to Hull charge potential?

[Douglas]

I was actualy considering in the region of several Mev.

 

2 spheres' date=' one inside the other, seperated by a vacuum dielectric, and thw workings and inhabitanst being inside the inner sphere, a bit like the double hulled Ocean vessels that are used today, with the difference of electrical isolation between them, and being charged.

 

it seemed a better idea than using lead sheilding (launch costs for weight etc...).

maybe something Active could be used instead, a repellant as opposed to an absorber.

with the added advantage of being able to reverse polarity at anytime depending on conditions.

 

sort of an Active Farraday cage [/quote']

Getting back to your original problem, I get the idea of what yer talking about, but it's really out of my territory. At first thought, I figured the inhabitants ought to be between the sphere's, with the ability to reverse the polarity of the charge.

[YT2095]

Between would be lethal! (

 

I was considering particles deflected by the outer shell due to its charge, and any that entered it would be met with a "WIND" to either slow them/stop them.

even if it`s only by a few percent, it beats that one moon mission where they were told to orient the craft ass backwards to absorb SOME of the solar emissions during an active solar state. maybe the same technique coupled with Hull charging at the correct polarity, may reduce the ill effects even further, perhaps even protect sat electronics during the 11 year cycle?

[RICHARDBATTY]

I like the idea, its seems a bit like the the way the earths field protects us but with a nos kit fitted.

[YT2095]

the incorporation of Magnetic generators would also be effective, a bit like our weak but planetarily significant magnetic pole protect us from alot of otherwise hamfull Ionisation.

 

the two in tandem could provide alot more protection than "swing the craft around and show it your ass" idea

[Douglas]

aha! ' date=' yes I understand what ya mean now

 

the little minute thrusters needed to alter a position by a "Gnats Bollock" <--- that`s a British saying meaning a tiny amount

 

I`m familiar with quite a bit of PLL tech, what were you using? and where was it`s input phase taken from in space (uplink coords from Earth based beacons or other sats)?

 

and how does it relate to Hull charge potential?

I'm chuckling at that one, I'll pass it on to my friends in space systems.

When I worked at surveillance systems, my forte was low sideband noise pll's, and high intercept compressive receivers.

 

The job at space systems was kind've unique, the master clock was in one satellites, the other satellites had synchronizable clocks (I.E. you could move the frequency say...30 or 40 Hz) The problem was... that input was a digital code, instead of a sinusoid, thus, we scrapped the conventional PLL. We thought we'd try a sampling technique, but that would only work if the code repeated itself. The code appeared to be pseudo random, the project failed.

 

If you can figure out how to phase lock a pseudo random code, you can go to work for Lockheed.

[YT2095]

I`ll work on it LOL ))

 

the PLLs I`m used to mostly always where local x-tal set timing. the sample idea wasn`t a bad one though!!!! but without a mean avg alogorithm and setter I can see how it would have been trashed (

 

I`m quite familiar with SSB too, that`s where alot of my PLL training came from to (Civilian in this instance).

 

have you looked into "Fuzzy Logic" at all? it`s just an idea, and one I`ve have reasonable success with in simple apps in neural cybernetics. it`s worth a look at least