'Hawking Radiation' in Weak Nuclear reactions ?

[Widdekind]

In beta decay, a down-quark decays into a up quark, via Weak Nuclear 'W Boson' emission:

 

[math]d \rightarrow u + \left( W^{-} \rightarrow \bar{\nu_e} + e^{-} \right) [/math]

Could "pair production", from ambient "vacuum energy", account for beta decay, via a "Hawking Radiation" like phenomena, wherein a neutrino-antineutrino pair "pop" into existence, "near" the down quark; the neutrino interacts, with that down quark, via W^- boson exchange, and "becomes" an electron; the anti-neutrino escapes ?

 

[math]d[/math]

 

[math]d + \left( \bar{\nu_e} + \nu_e \right) [/math]

 

[math] \bar{\nu_e} \rightarrow \infty[/math]

[math]d : W^{-} : \nu_e \rightarrow u + e^{-}[/math]

By analogy, the ultra-strong force of gravity, near a BH, can "rip apart" particle-antiparticle pairs. Similarly, might the ultra-strong forces, near a nucleon, "rip apart" particle-antiparticle pairs (so explaining beta decay) ??

[imatfaal]

whilst your first particle decay is correct from a fundamental level; is it really correct from an empirical level - or a existential level? Is there ever, ever a sole down quark in vacuo that might decay?

 

What happens in the datum universe is that udd decays into udu and an electron and electron antineutrino - and until one can rationalise and then show that the same happens in the absence of the "spare" ud it is all baseless

[derek w]

I think the hawkins effect was with high energy photons,producing electron-positron pairs near the E/H of a black hole.A neutrino would not have enough energy to produce up quark plus electron,where as a down quark does.

[swansont]

By analogy, the ultra-strong force of gravity, near a BH, can "rip apart" particle-antiparticle pairs. Similarly, might the ultra-strong forces, near a nucleon, "rip apart" particle-antiparticle pairs (so explaining beta decay) ??

 

Does the probability of beta-decay depend on the strength of the nuclear force? The answer would see to be an emphatic "No." It does not have any correlation to the number of nucleons. It does have a relation to the magnitude of a neutron excess (or deficit, for the other decay).

[DrRocket]

By analogy, the ultra-strong force of gravity, near a BH, can "rip apart" particle-antiparticle pairs. Similarly, might the ultra-strong forces, near a nucleon, "rip apart" particle-antiparticle pairs (so explaining beta decay) ??

 

Where in the world did you get that notion ?

 

Sometimes in popularizations the explanation for Hawking radiation is given as the separation of pairs of virtual particle antiparticle pairs very near the event horizon of a black hole. That is an oversimplification and in any case the "gravitational field" near the event horizon of a massive black hole is unremarkable. It can in no way be called "ultra-strong". Gravity might be called "ultra-strong" well into the interior, but not at the event horizon, and it is at the horizon that the action is taking place.

 

In truth, Hawking radiation is predicted by use of quantum field theory on curved spacetime, which is rather exotic and not yet well formulated.

 

The strong force among quarks holds nucleons together. It hardly "tears them apart". Beta decay is mediated by the weak force.

 

You could hardly be farther from reality.

[Widdekind]

The strong force among quarks holds nucleons together. It hardly "tears them apart". Beta decay is mediated by the weak force.

 

You could hardly be farther from reality.

 

So, you don't have to read, what I write ? How can we discuss science, if you superficially skim what I write ?

 

Does the probability of beta-decay depend on the strength of the nuclear force? The answer would see to be an emphatic "No." It does not have any correlation to the number of nucleons. It does have a relation to the magnitude of a neutron excess (or deficit, for the other decay).

 

You're misconstruing me. All I'm asking, is if pair-production can "provoke" a Beta-decay process, by "supplying" a neutrino, which can exchange a W-boson with a d-quark, which "turns them into" an u-quark & electron ? If you hate the "Hawking analogy", then don't hold an analogy, against my core question.

 

Beta-decay is a spontaneous process. Could neutrino-antineutrino pair production "provoke" the process ?

 

EDIT: Am I misconstruing you ? What am I missing -- why would Beta-decay, which is a Weak force phenomena, involve 'Color Force' at all ? Beta-decay is a Weak force effect, yes ? All I'm asking is, if that Weak force effect could be "triggered", by neutrino-antineutrino pair-production, suitably near some d-quark, in some neutron ? Neutrinos carry no 'Color' charge, I'm completely confused.

 

For the record, did you yourself not tell me, in a PP elsewhere, that an antiparticle, on the RHS of a reaction equation, can be "flipped", into an "input" particle, on the LHS ? So, d --> u + (W = !v + e) is equivalent to d + v ---> u + e. And, that could be explained, by a "hidden" pair-production event, which "did" occur, but was not observed by experimenters,

 

d + (v !v) ---> u + e + !v

 

i.e., experimenters observe a d --> u + e + !v, per standard Beta decay equation... but, could not an actual-if-un-observed "hidden pair-production event" have "provoked" or "triggered" the reaction (w/ the neutrino interacting with the d-quark, and the anti-neutrino escaping) ?

 

Does the probability of beta-decay depend on the strength of the nuclear force? The answer would see to be an emphatic "No." It does not have any correlation to the number of nucleons. It does have a relation to the magnitude of a neutron excess (or deficit, for the other decay).

 

So, you are telling me, that the number of "extra neutrons" determines the "half-life", of the neutron-rich nucleus? If pair-production events could "provoke" the decay; and, if such pair-production events happen "at random", uniformly through space; then, the number of excess neutrons "dangling out in exposure" to such pair-production events, would determine the likelihood, of any one neutron "encountering" a pair-production event (analogies involving sail area exposed to wind come to mind).

 

In Hawking radiation, one particle interacts w/ the BH; the other escapes. I'm asking, if something vaguely similar could occur, in Weak force effects, e.g. Beta decay, when one particle (v) interacts w/ the quark, whilst the other particle (!v) escapes. Am I to understand, that that could never occur? Never in the history of space-or-time, has a !v:v pair "popped" into existence, "near" a quark, and "stimulated" Beta-decay processes ? Why would that be impossible ?

Edited November 24, 2011 by Widdekind