Time from BScH to Masters

[Xittenn]

I was just recently accepted to an Undergraduate Program in Chemistry, and I will finally be going to school. I had applied for the summer term but am thinking I will go to the school tomorrow to see if I can make that a little sooner and enroll for the winter term. It has taken me fifteen years to get to this point, because of the type of person that I am. Regardless, I will only be completing 45 - 60 credits at this school and will be transferring to UBC for their Biochemistry program the following year.

 

I've been looking over a lot of information and have been planning my path to education and I am feeling pretty lucky with the way things might work out. I'm curious though, UBC has an MD/PhD program that I could take. It is seven years in length, which is pretty much the length of their MD program in addition to taking a PhD. This is appealing to me because it is an incorporated program and I would love to have my feet in both doors. It looks like I may be able to complete my BScH in twenty-four months and so the addition of seven years is not really all that bad an idea for me.

 

My question is, if I completed a BScH and I decided to complete the MD program first and separately, how long would be a wise amount of time to limit myself to for applying for a Masters? I know I am getting ahead of myself here, but twenty-four months is such a small quantity of time. Also with the limited enrollment of the Masters program, I need to get the requisite lab time and so on. I don't know if I will be financially in any position to take the MD/PhD program and may have to take them separately. I would really like to have both though, I would ultimately like to be working in Biomedical research as both a researcher and a Doctor.

 

Thx as always,

 

Beka:D

Edited November 27, 2011 by Xittenn

[Genecks]

Yeah, ok.

 

So, I believe if I'm reading you right, you want to to do the following:

 

1. Get B.S. in Chemistry

Then...

2a. Consider graduate school for a Masters in Biochemistry

2b. Consider MD/PhD program for biomedical research future

2c. Consider solely an MD program for medical science research/practice

 

If you chose to do 2a, you would be wasting a lot of time if you want to ultimately get into a medical program for a medical degree. Some people get a masters degree in order make their resumes better or see if they really, really want to pursue that field of research or work in industry doing that stuff. I don't believe in getting a master's degree unless it's business or nursing or... maybe engineering... but otherwise, I don't see those degrees as a worthwhile pursuit for a person who does not already have an advanced degree.

 

If you got the medical degree and then wanted a masters in biochemistry... I would suggest to do it ASAP. But I wouldn't even suggest doing it, because you would be in loads of debt of which you would more than likely want to pay off by doing residency. After doing residency and controlling your debt, you'd want to then pursue the masters in biochemistry as soon as possible. I don't think it's a good idea. But I don't know you too well. Maybe you're an heiress. If that's the case, I suggest getting the medical degree and then the graduate in biochem asap (who likes to waste time, ey?).

 

2b.

 

If you chose to 2b, you would have to get a fairly decent GPA, have at least one year of research experience (start talking to professors in person now, setting up appointments to discuss you want to be in their lab, and tell them you'll be around for a few years, etc.). You'll need shadowing experience. You'll need a year of volunteer experience (medical related). You'll need to get all of this done pronto. You'll need to take the MCAT and have studied for it ahead of time. You'll need to have gotten a lot of stuff done within 12 months prior to application deadlines, including finding the MD/PhD program you want to participate in. Very tasking process and sucks a ton. Good luck.

 

Furthermore, some medical scholars programs pay full tuition, thus preventing you from having a large debt. Furthermore, were you not to get into such a free program, consider that almost all medical students have debt anyway, which is often paid off with work and time (or skillfully evaded). And the debt is often a big factor that encourages people to complete the program.

 

 

 

2c.

 

If you're just going to do the MD program, I re-iterate the above minus the need to do a year of research.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Genecks

[Xittenn]

I said Master's because unless I take a direct entry PhD program I would have to enter into Master's first. Also I guess I was thinking if I do a short Master's, followed by the MD, I guess I figured that it would make it easier to go back for a PhD. I'm just worried that if I complete my Bachelors and then do the MD program, that I won't be able to qualify for PhD entrance after residency because too much time will have elapsed.

 

I think I might just stay away from Med School. The only reason I was thinking Med School, was to both show off, and to gain more control over my research. Neither of these reasons are very good and I can just as easily gain more control over my research by being a well coordinated team player and by encouraging a team friendly environment.

 

Thanks Genecks!

[Genecks]

You could get into a Ph.D program after getting a medical degree. There really isn't a time limit. However, I've read on some parts of the web that as a person reaches 40... yeah... there begins to be a kind of age discrimination (but that generally applies to getting into medical school after getting a Ph.D). I would think that if you had already obtained a medical degree, then people would be willing to let you get into their Ph.D program without much fuss. Maybe if you attempt to apply to Ph.D/MD programs, you might have better chances. I suggest you apply to MD/Ph.D programs along with Ph.D programs and MD programs (don't be frugal about this application process; time is of the essence).

 

Honestly, if you can get into medical school, I would suggest doing so. I think it's possible to do the research a person wants to do as a medical doctor. CharonY might have some disagreements here. But in my opinion, I don't see why a person wouldn't be able to actively do biological research as a medical doctor. Now, becoming a PI might be difficult or might not be difficult. In general, I've read that medical doctors, because they can make enough money, generate the ability to lead their own research teams (especially when teamed up with other medical doctors).

 

I would suggest becoming a MD if you could become a MD. I think it's the better route all around, if you can save yourself from the debt that exists after medical school.

If the debt were not such a serious issue, I suspect more medical doctors would become researchers after obtaining their medical degree.

The interest rate will crush a person on a $200,000 loan debt that would need to be paid back in 20 years.

 

Honestly, I don't know why there should and would be age discrimination in things like this. In my opinion, letting older individuals into the system suppresses the younger individuals into the system. Thus, older individuals will generally make less money than the younger individuals, thus this fact being more beneficial for doctors who have been already practicing and making money. With those economic considerations, I don't see why age should be a factor or why people would discriminate based on age. It's not reasonable. If someone wanted to make the argument that people can't think as well, remember as well, or be as critical in a medical setting or medical school due to their age, I would be more willing to accept such an argument (but a hard worker with a gift and passion for science shouldn't have too hard of a time doing it, I would argue).

Edited December 11, 2011 by Genecks

[Appolinaria]

Congrats, Beka

[Xittenn]

@Genecks

I want to focus on Microbiology and Immunology, and I want to be involved in computational chemistry. Wouldn't my focus best be on a PhD as opposed to an MD?

 

 

Thx Appolinaria, I'm so glad I'm finally getting this opportunity. I managed to enroll in a full 20 credits this semester. I just finally registered for an open seat in Chem this morning; was scared there for a sec. \o/

[Appolinaria]

I bet it feels good. You're on your way to great things.

[Genecks]

@Genecks

I want to focus on Microbiology and Immunology, and I want to be involved in computational chemistry. Wouldn't my focus best be on a PhD as opposed to an MD?

 

Time-wise, yes. Funding-wise, maybe.

 

Time-wise = being able to put in time as a scientist toward the research in order to create new knowledge and findings

Funding-wise = being able to buy supplies to do the research

 

Funding is generally the major issue these days when it comes to science.

As I understand it, being a medical doctor can help keep the flow of money coming in.

 

But with the field you have just described, there may be a good flow of money coming in: People need scientists to find new drugs to treat illness. As such, you might not want to be a MD to handle that particular kind of thing.

 

My overall opinion, however, as of late, has been that being a medical doctor all around helps a person get ahead (despite about 6 years of life being lost to maintain wealth and status if one desires to be a scientist as the end-goal). That's just my view, though. You said you see the MD as a status thing. I see the MD as a wealth thing (it gives a person more freedom to be a medical scientist).

 

Maybe I'm wrong, slanted, or crazy on this perception.

 

Then again, many Ph.D professors make at least $40k a year. It's practical to join an already existing research team and contribute cash/time to it in order to help accomplish things (but many people don't do this, as they seem to be busy attempting to retire and etc.).

 

Maybe try talking to other scientists.

 

Sorry if I've focused too much on a Ph.D discussion.

 

P.S.

 

20 credits is a lot. You will want to keep up your GPA above 3.63 for a chance at medical school; keep it above 3.5 for Ph.D grad school. The average GPA for medical school increases about .01 each year and has been doing so for the past 6 years or so. I suspect that will slow down and asymptote... (hopefully).

 

p.p.s.

 

The biochemistry and chemistry majors are extremely tough. Spend plenty of time with tutors, TAs, chemistry/biochem college groups (like AlChem or pre-pharm student groups or some other student group that studies chemistry), and practice, practice, practice. Definitely a tough major. Knowing what I know now, I bet I could do the major, but it sure takes a lot of effort, connecting with people (to know how to tackle the material), and sleepless nights.

 

Many people in such majors take major hits to their GPA, thus leading them to a masters program and then a Ph.D program rather than the Ph.D program after the bachelors.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Genecks

[Xittenn]

[emeraldgirl08]

Woah. 20 credits?!!!

 

Let us know how you do! I've done a max of 17 and that was enough for me. I didn't have a life but rather had one with classes>eat lunch>classes>breathe>classes>lab>study>sleep and the cycle continued for 15 weeks. In my case it was 3 sciences with 3 labs and one PUH (Public Health) class that I was engaged with for the term. The previous terms was a similar story but with 16 cr. hrs that nonetheless kept this girls nose in the books! I'll be starting my BS w/minor also next month at university. Pretty excited in a bookwormy kind of way

 

@Genecks. Thanks for sharing advice regarding biochem and chemistry majors. I will definitely keep the pointers regarding groups in mind.

[Xittenn]

I'm old and I have studied so much for so many years now. I know most of everything I will be taught in the first couple of years. I'm also used to working upwards of eighty hours a week, so I should be ok. My education will more probably be a nice long vacation; thanks for the heads up though!

 

Sem 1

---------------------------------

 

3 +ENGL 1100 (Engl UBC 112)

 

3 +MATH 1120 (Calculus I UBC 100)

 

3 MATH 1112 (Pre-Calc)

 

4 +CHEM 1110 (Chem I /w Chem II UBC 121,123)

 

4 +BIOL 1110 (Bio I /w Bio II UBC 111,121,140)

 

3 &ECON 1150

-----

20

[emeraldgirl08]

I have

 

3 Organic Chemistry- Lecture

Organic Chemistry- Discussion

1 Organic Chemistry- Lab

5 Calculus I w/applications

 

and one other class I will need for full-time status. I'm minoring in Anthropology so I'm thinking perhaps "Cultural Anthropology" for my other 3 credit hour class. I'm wowed by how much time Ochem and Calculus will consume my schedule already! My GPA is very good at this point so I'm a bit cautious about loading up on courses right now.

 

You already know your material?! Haha that's awesome! Have a good upcoming semester

[DrRocket]

I'm old and I have studied so much for so many years now. I know most of everything I will be taught in the first couple of years. I'm also used to working upwards of eighty hours a week, so I should be ok. My education will more probably be a nice long vacation; thanks for the heads up though!

 

Sem 1

---------------------------------

 

3 +ENGL 1100 (Engl UBC 112)

 

3 +MATH 1120 (Calculus I UBC 100)

 

3 MATH 1112 (Pre-Calc)

 

4 +CHEM 1110 (Chem I /w Chem II UBC 121,123)

 

4 +BIOL 1110 (Bio I /w Bio II UBC 111,121,140)

 

3 &ECON 1150

-----

20

 

 

 

Why would you take pre-calculus and calculus simultaneously ? If you need the pre-calculus class then you have no business taking calculus. If you don't need it, pre-calculus will be a boring waste of time and likely will not count towards graduation in any sort of science major.

[Xittenn]

For some reason it is a co-requisite for Chem I. The professor said he would waive it for me because in the end it will not count as credits towards my major and I really don't need it. I took it to meet boys . . . .