Osama Tape

[Diedra Moose]

The argument that we deserved the action taken against us is a very poor one, and its origin is entirely partisan in nature. We'd be hearing exactly the same argument if our president were Al Gore right now, but it would be coming from the opposite side.

 

I didn't mean that we deserved to be attacked at all. What I meant is that the American public chose to turn a blind eye to waht their gov't has done in the world. Some people, in fact, arrogantly deny that the US had any role in some of those actions.

 

My point was that it was our turn to reap what our gov't had sewn. Did those almost 3,000 families deserve to lose a loved one? Absolutely not. Was the American public brutally shaken from the "we're America the all-powerful, untouchable, unstoppable country" dream to realize that our own gov't has been lying to us and bringing harm to us? Hopefully.

[Pangloss]

I agree with that.

[Diedra Moose]

I agree with that.

 

Cool

[r1dermon]

you have not lost all entitlement as being innocent. innocence has nothing to do with your social or economic standing. innocence is when you are being wrongly accused or being brought harm to for no justifiable reason whatsoever. there is no justifiable reason for a terrorist to take over a plane and crash it into a building. none whatsoever. and if you dont think the people on board were innocent...i mean, i just dont understand that comment. innocence is circumstantial. and in that circumstance, everyone on board and in those buildings was innocent. to say that they werent is adopting the same belief system of osama and all of his followers.

[Tetrahedrite]

Osama is a Bush supporter. He knows that this will swing the vote in favor of Bush. Why else would he do this now? Since Osama is more in favor of promoting terrorism and making the terrorists organizations stronger than anyone on the planet I would have to conclude that he believes that Bush will make the terrorist organizations stronger. He would know more than anyone which president will make terrorism worse and his organization stronger so I am now more certain than ever, given the present information, that Bush is more dangerous than Kerry and that Kerry will do a better job of eliminating terrorism. What do you guys think?

 

 

You absolutely hit the nail on the head. Osama knew exactly what he was doing when he released that video. Ironically Dubbya is actually helping Osama to recruit terrorists, unfortunately most people are blithering idiots and can't see the woods for the trees. Osama is just repaying the favour for all of the money his family made from the september 11 attacks

[Pangloss]

I heard Bush actually called Osama on the phone and told him where he could find American soldiers to shoot at. Then he ordered all their protective gear removed and sold on Ebay, and gave the money to his friends at Halliburton. Also, something about sacrificing small children. Yeah, small children.

[Ophiolite]

you have not lost all entitlement as being innocent. innocence has nothing to do with your social or economic standing. innocence is when you are being wrongly accused or being brought harm to for no justifiable reason whatsoever. there is no justifiable reason for a terrorist to take over a plane and crash it into a building. none whatsoever. and if you dont think the people on board were innocent...i mean, i just dont understand that comment. innocence is circumstantial. and in that circumstance, everyone on board and in those buildings was innocent. to say that they werent is adopting the same belief system of osama and all of his followers.

Again, I am not entitled to comment on the innocence or otherwise of the victims of the 911 attacks. I was specifically referring to my own innocence were I to be the victim of a hi-jacking. My social and economic standing is very relevant here. I enjoy a lifestyle as a westerner that is achieved partly at the expense of third world nations. Example - 1.9 million children under the age of five die each year as a consequence of diarrhea. (That's more than six hundred times the number of deaths in 911.) The majority of these lives could be saved for a fraction of what is spent in the US alone on cosmetics. So we have chosen to value a bottle of perfume above that of a child, so that we can smell nice. I will not, therefore be surprised if a pro-Palestinian hi-jacker decides that in order to get his message across he feels entitled to place a similar low value on my life. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. So, I am definitely not innocent. The rest of you can make your own minds up.

[blike]

You absolutely hit the nail on the head. Osama knew exactly what he was doing when he released that video. Ironically Dubbya is actually helping Osama to recruit terrorists, unfortunately most people are blithering idiots and can't see the woods for the trees. Osama is just repaying the favour for all of the money his family made from the september 11 attacks

November 1, 2004 -- WASHINGTON - Osama bin Laden warned in his October Surprise video that he will be closely monitoring the state-by-state election returns in tomorrow's presidential race — and will spare any state that votes against President Bush from being attacked, according to a new analysis of his statement.

 

The respected Middle East Media Research Institute, which monitors and translates Arabic media and Internet sites, said initial translations of a key portion of bin Laden's video rant to the American people Friday night missed an ostentatious bid by the Saudi-born terror master to divide American voters and tilt the election towards Democratic challenger John Kerry.

 

MEMRI said radical Islamist commentators monitored over the Internet this past weekend also interpreted the key passage of bin Laden's diatribe to mean that any U.S. state that votes to elect Bush on Tuesday will be considered an "enemy" and any state that votes for Kerry has "chosen to make peace with us."

 

The statement in question is when bin Laden said on the tape: "Your security is up to you, and any state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security."

 

That sentence followed a lengthy passage in the video in which bin Laden launches personal attacks on the president.

 

Yigal Carmon, president of MEMRI, said bin Laden used the Arabic term "ay-wilaya" to refer to a "state" in that sentence.

 

That term "specifically refers to an American state, like Tennessee," Carmon said, adding that if bin Laden were referring to a "country" he would have used the Arabic word "dawla."

[LucidDreamer]

Does anyone else think that our whole world has gone insane?

[Tetrahedrite]

A man who has managed to escape capture or execution by the biggest military superpower in the world is not stupid. It is not just a coincidence that the video was released less than a week before and election. He knows that telling people not to vote for bush will have the opposite effect and Bush's policies are conducive to the recruitment of terrorists to fight "infidels"

[Pangloss]

You're right, it's not a coincidence.

 

Nor is it a coincidence that the best he could do to disrupt our election was "issue a statement". No bombs, no planes, no destroyed buildings. A statement.

 

Homer Simpson would have a field day with that. "Oh looooook, the evil terrorist is issuing a statement! I'm so skeeeered! Please, Mr. Terrorist Overlord, don't issue another one! I don't know what I would do!!!!"

[blike]

He knows that telling people not to vote for bush will have the opposite effect and Bush's policies are conducive to the recruitment of terrorists to fight "infidels"

Do you honestly think he wants the man responsible for killing or capturing over half of his organization's leadership back in office? Do you think he wants the man who has caused him to be on the run for the past year and a half back in power? Don't you think that if he really wanted George Bush in office, he'd bomb somewhere major in the states? Or was a video tape the best he could do?

[Ophiolite]

To each of your questions:

Yes.

Yes.

If he could.

The best he could do.

 

 

Edit: See Lucid Dreamer's post #42 for why I think these are the answers.

[Severian]

Osama is a Bush supporter. He knows that this will swing the vote in favor of Bush. Why else would he do this now? Since Osama is more in favor of promoting terrorism and making the terrorists organizations stronger than anyone on the planet I would have to conclude that he believes that Bush will make the terrorist organizations stronger. He would know more than anyone which president will make terrorism worse and his organization stronger so I am now more certain than ever, given the present information, that Bush is more dangerous than Kerry and that Kerry will do a better job of eliminating terrorism. What do you guys think?

 

 

Ah, but maybe its a double bluff. Osama knows you will think that, so he says this in order to make you vote for Kerry. And OMG it is working!

[blike]

Ah, but maybe its a double bluff. Osama knows you will think that, so he says this in order to make you vote for Kerry. And OMG it is working!

Reminds me of the princess bride scene:

 

V: Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

 

M: You've made your decision then?

 

V: Not remotely. Because iocaine comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

 

M: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

 

V: Wait till I get going! Where was I?

 

M: Australia.

 

V: Yes -- Australia, and you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

 

M: You're just stalling now.

 

V: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong. So, you could have put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard which means you must have studied. And in studying, you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

[Pangloss]

Inconceivable!

[LucidDreamer]

Reminds me of the princess bride scene:

 

. Exactly. Once again the whole world has gone crazy.

 

Let's put aside partisanship for a moment if that's possible. What are Osama's goals? His goals are to ignite the Muslim people to carry out a jihad and create more terrorism. You asked earlier if I (or someone who thinks as I do about this issue) believe that Bush's tactics are supporting his goals: my answer is yes. An Arab country that was once firmly under the control of a secular dictator is now in the midst of a "civil war" where terrorism and religious fanaticism reigns supreme. As long as the fanatical Muslim terrorists have the motivation to keep fighting the religious-based guerilla war will continue.

 

Osama believes that the will of his followers to fight will outlast America's determination to stabilize Iraq and turn it into a secular democracy. He knows that as long as the infidels practice imperialism and occupy an Arab country his followers will have the will to continue to fight and his religious jihad will continue. He believes that the Muslims, who are the chosen people, have been mistreated by the western infidel world and its time for the chosen people to rise up against its oppressors. He believes that the root of power of the western world comes from Satan and therefore if his people are destined to overcome us. It's his job as a pseudo-prophet to ignite the Muslim world and wake it from its Satan-induced slumber and fight the infidels. This can only be accomplished through strife and any amount of persecution of the Muslims by the infidels only serves to promote his cause by igniting the Muslims and winning more followers. Fanatical Muslims are strengthened by strife and persecution because their religion, the way it is taught by the fanatical sects, teaches that the secular non-Muslim world is evil and wishes to destroy the holy people, but Allah loves his holy people and will strengthen them to overcome and greatly reward those who fight for him. Their world is a world of violence so violence only makes them stronger.

 

Osama would continue his holy Jihad against the West regardless of who wins the election but an American president that practices diplomacy and tries to solve the problems with the Arab countries without the use of violence would only pacify the Muslim people and reduce the will to carry out the Jihad. He has learned that Bush's tactics involve the use of heavy force and violence, which only serves his purpose. He believes that if Bush is reelected that he will continue his heavy-handed tactics and that Bush can easily be provoked in to more violence. This continued persecution of the Muslims would only secure their will to continue the Jihad.

 

The majority of the political commentaries have predicted that Osama's speech will swing the vote in favor of Bush. It's crazy to believe that Osama would not have been aware that his speech would have that effect. I believe there are probably other reasons for why Osama released that tape, but this post is long enough already.

[Pangloss]

It's a reasonable conjecture. Ultimately I think it's more or less irrelevent. Terrorists have never been wanting for material to enrage followers about, and he's not going to pack it in if Kerry is elected.

[Mad Mardigan]

Osama Bin Laden was actually spotted in the flesh just a few days ago - according to counter terror sources with the DEBKAfile. Between October 17 and October 19, an Indian air force reconnaissance plane picked him up in the Tibet-Laddakh region close to the North-Eastern corner of Pakistan bordering India and China.

Additional surveillance aircraft were called in and identified the al Qaeda leader on the move with a 10-vehicle convoy of black Japanese minivans. Four of the vehicles turned up again on Friday, October 22 heading east towards the Chinese border. Debkafile sources maintain that the rumored sightings of bin Laden on the Lingzi Thang Plain on the Tibetan border in June may have been true then, but are now outdated. In any case, he was not at the time in Pakistani Waziristan or the Afghan-Pakistani border as was suspected.

 

The agents hunting the al Qaeda leader are working on the premise that he has decided to wait out the winter months in one of two regions: Hunza province in the Northern Frontier tip of Indian Kashmir or Little Pamir, where fanatical Tajik tribes have never allowed any Kabul government - whether Taliban or led by Karzai - to secure a foothold. Little Pamir is wedged between Tajikistan where Russian special forces taking part in the bin Laden dragnet are deployed and China.

 

Before launching the Sept.11 attacks, bin Laden and his deputy Ayman Zawahiri, prepared snug havens in the caverns that riddle the towering 5,000-8,000 mountain peaks.

 

In the 1970s, the Russians converted the Little Pamir cave warren into subterranean silos for nuclear missiles pointing towards China. But even the Russians found the cold and harsh conditions unendurable and by the mid-1980s the bases were abandoned.

 

Nothing on Osama bin Laden's new tape released Friday, October 29, 2004 gave away information on the his whereabouts. Even though it was dropped in Islamabad a few hours prior at the gate of Al Jazeera’s Pakistan bureau chief, Pakistan was quick to deny the fugitive was hiding in that country. “He cannot be in the tribal areas because of the presence of so many troops,” said interior minister Aftab Khan Sherpao. In Afghanistan, the US military suggested he was somewhere near the Afghan-Pakistani border.

 

 

Rest of the story at: http://nyjtimes.com/cover/11-01-04/OsamaBinLadenSpottedByIndianAirForce.htm