Is there a hidden layer in the universe ?

[nameta9]

The concept is not as abstract as it may seem. Science is developed in a loop of continuous interactions from Reality to the Sense organs(hand, eye) to the Mind and back again from Mind to Sense organ(hand) to Reality as this diagram Reality ®, Senses(S) and Mind(M) shows:

 

R -> S -> M

R <- S <- M

 

Up until now M has always been fixed, but changing M everything changes. In this sense there would be a new and different science. We can imagine also wildly changing S by the way.

 

An interesting thing is that we can imagine there being an intermediate "invisible" layer called a "Presentation" layer that presents the information from the previous layer in a completely different form and format:

 

R -> S -> P -> M

R <- S <- P <- M

 

For example reality R could actually be a solid box of some unknow matter and we just poke at it with some sticks, but the presentation layer hides this and we could never discover this. We wouldn't notice because it is transparent but it could be there.

 

Even more interesting is if this layer is at some other point of the diagram:

 

R -> P -> S -> M

R <- P <- S <- M

 

In this case you could have for example that reality is a giant simulation in a computer of an unkown alien having completely different physics and the P layer hides this fact from us (we would be in a simulation aka Matrix..) or it could always be a box of some unknown matter and we just poke at it. The presentation layer hides this and we could never discover this.

 

In the next diagram we could interpret it as saying everything is only in our mind (or we live in a dream) and there is no external reality at all there being a layer P that fools us:

 

P -> S -> M

P <- S <- M

 

The point is that I can't imagine anyway of discovering this hidden layer!

 

We have some concrete cases where there are almost invisible layers (but that can be discovered):

 

1) when we digest food it is almost invisible

 

2) Some of us can live comfortably in part because there is a layer of workers somewhere in the world who work almost for free (or in the past worked); we don't notice but we use their goods. We are "buffered" from Reality, so extrapolating this to the universe the question becomes interesting...

 

Any comments ?

[Ophiolite]

We have some concrete cases where there are almost invisible layers (but that can be discovered):

 

1) when we digest food it is almost invisible

 

2) Some of us can live comfortably in part because there is a layer of workers somewhere in the world who work almost for free (or in the past worked); we don't notice but we use their goods. We are "buffered" from Reality' date=' so [b']extrapolating[/b] [bold added by Ophiolite]this to the universe the question becomes interesting...

 

Any comments ?

You shouldn't try to extrapolate analogies.

 

Didn't you post this in another thread?

[nameta9]

Yes, sorry about that. A post that is closely realted to this is the "is science arbitrary ?" under metaphysical threads. Actually the different minds there are like the universe having hidden layers. These topics are quite abstract and are not questioning our science but the system Mind + Universe.

[granDODyssey]

let's take the particle physics,

R -> S -> M

 

particle/energy -> messenger particle -> space

(quarks etc.) (photon,gluon ect...) (multi-dimentional )

 

if you consider a hypothetical universe with a few quarks and enough space to hold them...and they will be sending...say.. "gluon" messenger particles each other forming a strong force field...it sounds like the universe has a mind of it's own...