High Density Plasma Toroid Fusion Question

[Erich]

Dear Sirs:

 

I have posted this Question all over the web, physics forums, science magazines, academics in plasma physics and condensed matter, I have received little response.

 

Can you be of assistance?

 

I thought this might interest you. I have been researching Hydrogen-boron Fusion. Here's the most important posts, if this technology is real, it's history changing.

 

 

In my searches for efficient home technology I came across Electron Power Systems. I E-mailed EPS about the obvious synergies for their home generator with the power chips of Borealis. I also contacted Borealis. I have been mediating an argument between Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems http://www.electronpowersystems.com with Rodney T. Cox of http://www.powerchips.gi/. Basically Rodney said they got the math wrong and NASA is right and Clint says MIT doesn't get their math wrong. I thought you may have an interest and be of help. Both companies are proposing very disruptive technologies, Borealis in thermoelectrics and EPS in micro fusion.

 

Mediating, in this case, means in the middle of e-mail exchanges.

The issue seems to be Dr. Chen's paper and whether his assumptions of the aspect ratio for the plasma toroids, match the model of Clint Seward proposed device. Will the ion stability condition be satisfied to maintain equilibrium?

I'm in way over my head here and have been seeking help from interested parties, if you know any plasma physicist that may help that would be great. All pertinent papers are at EPS's web site.

 

 

You may be familiar with Eric Lerner's work, Focus Fusion http://integrityresinst.crosswinds.net/FocusFusion-Ver5.htm#_Toc42793577 , His theories on quasars, his book, The Big Bang Never Happened are very interesting. I spoke with him about my concerns regarding EPS's fusion model. Below are his points and Clint Seward's responses. Please share any thoughts you have.

 

Focus Fusion seems to making progress, they got threw gate 1 for a 2 million NIST grant for a spin off of their fusion technology to build a low cost X-ray source.

 

 

"Hi Erich,

 

I glanced at the NASA analysis and the reply, neither of which address

the fusion application. A few points:

 

1)NASA is right that plasmoids, smoke rings of plasma can easily be

crated by many approaches. The photos don’t prove that anything else is

happening. As seen in our experiments, you need a lot of diagnostics to

understand what is going on in a plasma and the EPS experiments don’t

seem to use many other than the photos.

 

2)The NASA report pointed out VERY serious algebraic errors, leading to

errors of many orders of magnitude in Chen's work. This is of concern to

say the least.

 

3)NASA's stability analysis seems a bit simple minded, so I would not

fully trust it.

 

3) Shooting two plasmoids at each other will not necessarily lead to net

fusion energy. Dan Wells worked on this idea for quite some time, but he

also used an external magnetic field to compress the plasmoids when they

hit and to keep them together. The problem is that if to plasmoid hit

each other at high velocity, it is not clear that they will stick

together. If they merely collide or pass through each other, the

collision time will be short. With a velocity of 3x10^8 cm/sec, you only

have a collision time of a few nanoseconds with a plasmoid a few cm

across. To get net energy, you need to have about 3% of the particles

fusing. For pB11 this will require ion densities in excess of

3x10^22/cc. This is close to 100 times more than the densities claimed

by EPS. Also, this means that the initial energy has to be nearly a GJ--

a billion joules. That is a lot of energy. But to make it work, either

you have to get the density up by a factor of 100 or make the plasmoids

stick together for 100 times longer. There does not seem to be any

experimental or theoretical reasoning shown that would indicate that

much longer confinement times will happen.

 

Over all, the EPS project is at a much earlier stage of development than

focus fusion. They have some experiments with a few diagnostics and some

theoretical ideas, but they have not demonstrated even theoretically

that net energy could be produced. Our project has a detailed theory,

published for the most part in peer-reviewed journals (or favorably

reviewed through the NIST process), and experiments with good

diagnostics that confirms at least part of the theory. We are also

extrapolating from the huge data base of experimental studies with the

dense plasma focus.

 

Of course, they, like us would need money to do the diagnostics. But

they should at least demonstrate theoretically that they can reach break

even. I don't see how they can justify the 1% or 10% collision they

claim.

 

I hope this is of some use. That's all I have time for on EPS. Glad to

answer questions on focus fusion when you get them.

 

Eric"

 

 

 

And Clint's response:

 

 

 

"Dear Erich,

 

Thanks for the info from Eric Lerner. We have information to respond to each of his points.

 

1. First, be a bit careful of the NASA report. It was based on the papers we had published up until 1999. They did not include any information MIT gave in response to their comments and questions.

 

NASA was correct. You need a lot of diagnostics. We have proposals to our sponsors to fund the diagnostics. We shall see.

 

2. The NASA report did find algebraic errors. We corrected them all. But since it was not done before 1999 they elected not to include them or acknowledge them intheir report. In fairness, the reviewer, MSE engineering, did request further NASA funding to begin research into our technology, where they planned to include some of the information they omitted, but NASA did not fund any further work.

 

3a. NASA's stability analysis is not complete. MIT completed such analysis, and NASA elected to not include it in the report. MIT subsequently published it in a peer reviewed journal. That paper is on our website.

 

3b. Eric's concern about shooting plasmoids is well founded. Our method is much different, and we have found a way around this. Eric points out that it is not clear the plasmoids will "stick together." Actually, this is not the case. Well's data shows clearly that two toroids will indeed "stick together." Read his paper that I have referenced in our documents.

 

3c. Eric is correct as to the ion density. We can demonstrate that the ion density is in the range that he has noted. I might have sent you a copy of this paper, but will do so if you have interest.

 

3d. We have completed theory and density of the order of magnitude Eric is calculating. In addition, we have calculations, not yet published, that demonstrate that two toroids will adhere together, will persist for several seconds, and will pass break even. We can make this discussion available if you have interest, but caution that it is highly proprietary.

 

Eric is correct that from what we have published and from what he can see it looks like we are in an early stage. Actually, the EST is quite a bit further along. The theory is complete enough to show break even with a simple apparatus.

 

Hopefully this helps.

 

Clint Seward"

 

 

 

Clint Seward recently sent me this e-mail, the applications, across such a broad spectrum, deserve your attention. Delphi.....Wow!

 

 

 

"An independent consulting group in Washington,DC has just reviewed our

technology for the Office of the Secretary of Defense. They just sent me a

draft for comments, and I have included it below. It is based on their

having talked with our technology partners.

 

Since it is a full page of technical detail before the conclusion, I have

copied the conclusion here first so you get the idea of their review.

 

"MIT considers these plasmas a revolutionary breakthrough, with Delphi's

chief scientist and senior manager for advanced technology both agreeing

that EST/SPT physics are repeatable and theoretically explainable. MIT and

EPS have jointly authored numerous professional papers describing their

work. (Delphi is a $33B company, the spun off Delco Division of General

Motors).

 

Revolutionary Impact: High - reliable generation and acceleration of these

plasmas using compact mobile machinery could provide US forces with a unique

generic defense against ballistic and cruise missiles, manned and unmanned

aircraft, and kinetic-energy projectiles of all sizes, velocities and

compositions."

 

Please let me klnow what you think.

 

Clint

 

 

Technology Review of Electron Power Systems (by an independent consulting

group) for Office Of The Secretary Of Defense July 2004

 

Technology Title: Electron spiral toroids (EST) as kinetic-energy weapons

(KEWs)

 

Development Organization: Electron Power Systems, Inc., Acton, Mass.

 

Description: EPS teamed with MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center under an

STTR grant to develop a theoretical framework and laboratory methods for

reliably creating small (0.5-1.0 cm diameter) self-organized plasmas, called

"electron spiral toroids" (ESTs) or "spiral plasma toroids" (SPTs). EST

electrons travel in parallel orbits around a torus in densities sufficient

to create a stable, self-sustaining internal magnetic field. These novel

laboratory-level plasmas, whose physics resembles that of ball lightning,

are unusual in that they remain stable in partial atmospheres without

requiring external magnetic fields for their containment, yet can also be

accelerated in a directed fashion to potentially very high velocities (e.g.,

600 km/sec) and kinetic energies. Parallel work on formation and magnetic

acceleration of "compact toroids" is also underway at DoE's Livermore lab

and at Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) at Kirtland AFB, NM, although

these plasmas - which can only exist in vacuum - require large (multi-meter

long) machinery that uses magnetic field pressures associated with "Tokamak"

fusion reactors to create large-diameter (0.5-1.0 meter) plasmas, which must

then be greatly reduced in diameter and volume to be useful. By contrast,

EPS uses much smaller, cheaper hardware to repeatably generate

high-ion-density plasmas that have remained stable in air for up to 0.6

seconds at 1-Torr atmospheric pressures. The EPS/MIT work has drawn interest

from MDA and DTRA for DEW/KEW applications and from Delphi Corporation, a

major automotive electronics firm, which envisions an automotive mini-fusion

reactor that would collide two small toroids generated by 1-meter-long

"neutron tubes" and capture the heat from their collision.

 

Potential Operational Payoff: used as KEWs, even a tiny (microscopic-scale)

EST would generate enough kinetic energy to destroy any military vehicle or

projectile operating in the atmosphere, including solid-rod anti-armor

penetrators. These charge-neutral plasmas would be produced in large numbers

in rapid succession to form a steerable beam. Impact velocities of 600

km/sec, possibly several times higher, may be possible, based on MIT's

extrapolation of AFRL's compact-toroid acceleration experiments for vacuum.

 

Metrics:

- Effects: target destruction by kinetic impacts far above hyper velocities

(defined by the speed of sound in metal and nonmetal targets)

- Speed: up to 600 km/sec (MIT estimate), possibly up to 2000 km/sec (EPS

estimate)

- Range: endoatmospheric line-of-sight up to space/atmosphere boundary

(officially defined as 62 miles)

- Power requirements: EPS proposes using EST mini-fusion reactors, whose

initial power could be provided by a car battery, to produce and accelerate

its ESTs.

 

Cost: no cost data available. The complexity of reliable mini-toroid

formation and acceleration with compact, relatively low-cost equipment

remains to be determined. Yet the fact that the EPS/MIT STTR work this

technology has attracted interest from Delphi is very significant, as the

automotive electronics industry is considered to be extremely demanding of

functionality per dollar and pound (e.g., mil-spec performance at

Wal-Mart-class 'commodity' prices).

 

Estimated Development Funding, FY 2005-2011 (combined KEW, mini-reactor)

- appr. $2M so far (Army Research Office, NASA SBIR, NASA-IAC (Institute for

Advanced Concepts) grant, BMDO STTR for $1M). EPS estimate: over FY

2005-2009, would need $0.5-$1.0M/yr (not including funding for MIT support),

but with a Phase 1 and 2 SBIR, could achieve a lab demonstration (TRL 4-5)

within 2.5-3 years of a proof-of-principle device that hits targets with

visible kinetic damage. Industrial co-funding from strategic partners

(agreements with Raytheon, Delphi (formerly GM Delco) and Titan Pulse Power)

could accelerate this.

-MIT estimate: with adequate staff and facilities funding ("at least

$2-$5M/year"), could demonstrate basic physics within 2 years, followed by

development of an integratable engineering package.

 

TRL 3-4. MIT considers these plasmas a revolutionary breakthrough, with

Delphi's chief scientist and senior manager for advanced technology both

agreeing that EST/SPT physics are repeatable and theoretically explainable.

MIT and EPS have jointly authored numerous professional papers describing

their work.

 

Revolutionary Impact: High - reliable generation and acceleration of these

plasmas using compact mobile machinery could provide US forces with a unique

generic defense against ballistic and cruise missiles, manned and unmanned

aircraft, and kinetic-energy projectiles of all sizes, velocities and

compositions."

 

 

 

 

It does sound to good to be true however with names like MIT, Delphi, STTR grants ,NIST grants etc., popping up all over, I have to keep investigating.

 

There are three companies pursuing hydrogen-boron plasma toroid fusion, Paul Koloc, Prometheus II, Eric Lerner, Focus Fusion and EPS. I can go into their histories if you are interested

 

I have been at this for a few months, you have seen the most important posts among my contacts with the Fusion players. Look over their web sites and tell me what you think. EPS seems the strongest and most advanced, and I love the scalability, cars, distributed power, airplanes, space propulsion, etc.

 

Been sending my posted questions to academics, science magazines, and forums, not a whole lot of responses.

 

Also, a Recent speech by Rodney Cox : http://www.borealis.gi/press/NEW-GOLDEN-AGE-IBM.Speech.6=04.pdf is very inspiring. The big line of the speech is about power being to cheap to meter.

Thomas Friedman, of the Times, wrote a great column a few months ago. His dream of head lines he would read on return from sabbatical, the top one, China and America announce Manhattan Project for Clean Energy. The geopolitical implications of china's oil thirst as the paramount problem of our time.

The New York Times> Search> Abstract

 

Thank you for your attention

 

Erich J. Knight

Shenandoah Gardens

1047 Dave Berry Rd. McGaheysville, VA, 22840

(540) 289-9750

[SubJunk]

I have no idea buddy, but thanks for the headache

Good luck

[Erich]

After posting to several Science, physics and Energy forums I collected up comments and questions and asked Clint Seward , president of Electron Power Systems, to respond:

 

"Your most important point was that others have suggested that I should be

able to demonstrate a collision of EST's and even a level of fusion with a

few hundred thousand dollars and about a year. I agree. Here is what I

need to do:

 

1. Capture the EST in a way that I can measure them. I have designed a

method in the last two months that will do this.

2. Measure the density of the EST. This requirement is something everyone

is asking for, and will enable me to get serious funding from sponsors.

3. Collide two EST's. I have found a simple way to do this based on the

TRISOPS work by Wells.

4. Consulting work by Chen to verify the physics I have outlined for the

density.

5. Make and measure an EST based on Deuterium.

6. Collide two Deuterium EST's.

 

Each of these requires some cash outlays, so I am working them as I can get

resources. Several people, including yourself, are considering helpful

investments of $5k to $10k to 25K to 50K to 100k. Work will progress with

any investment, no matter how small. Capturing an EST is a $5k investment.

 

Your second most important point is that more people want to see more data

and even a video. I have many of these, but have not published them yet. I

have concentrated on the physics, which I feel I now know completely, and

can get confirmed. This is a smaller effort, about $15k.

 

You suggested an article from the SF Chronicle that you might send. Please

do.

 

Again, thanks for the call.

 

Clint Seward"

 

 

Also, Darren Garnier of the levitated Dipole experiement:

 

MIT, Columbia begin new 'hot' fusion experiment - MIT News Office

 

Had this to say about the p-B11 efforts:

 

"I, like most of my colleagues in fusion research, are hesitant to

comment about this work. Mainly because when we do, we often end up

being accused of having motives other than that of furthering

scientific understanding.

 

That said, I'll give you my understanding and my opinion. Many years

ago, I was interested in Koloc's Prometheus... it sounded exciting, and

at the time I was a first year graduate student. (You probably can

google me on it.) Anyhow, my conclusion at the time was it was an

unverified theory with significant holes in it.

 

In the meantime, I've learned a lot of plasma physics, a lot about

building experiments and diagnosing them, and about "alternative

concepts". Many of which are pursued at a serious level through

funding by the Department of Energy's Office of Fusion Energy Research.

(Like my own experiment, the Levitated Dipole Experiment).

 

Here's what I've learned. Concepts similar to these "toroid" plasmas

have been and are still being researched. There are at least 3

spheromak experiments that can think of off the top of my head in the

US. (They are not surrounded by atmospheric gases though). There are

2 experiments currently being pursued that are try to collide two

spheromaks together to form (possibly) a "field reversed configuration"

or FRC. The investigators working on these projects, I'm sure, would

tell you that a lot of work still needs to be done to even determine if

one of these devices could reach ignition, let alone 0.0005

cents/kW-hr.

 

As far as p-B11 as a fuel goes, this is even harder to consider. Sure

its an available fuel, but there have been significant efforts to

determine its cross-section and it doesn't look feasible. Technically,

the temperatures required would likely make synchrotron radiation of

the boron snuff out the fusion fire. (That's why on LDX, which we

hope to have minimal neutron radiation, we hope to have a "catalysed

D-D" reaction.... But, I'll tell you, it ain't happening in the next

10 years, and won't be put into cars).

 

About the quote from the DOD review. I can't speak for "MIT", but I

and I would guess most of the scientists working at the MIT Plasma

Science and Fusion Center, would not agree.

 

Speaking for myself, I can say only this. In general I support

research in "alternative concepts". However, I'm very wary of

proponents who promise too much too soon. The fusion community burned

itself badly 40 years ago when its said that, in just a few years

fusion energy plants will produce electricity that is too cheap to

meter. In the end, very proposal for research should be well

presented with respect to prior work and reviewed so that claims by the

proponents can be evaluated in the course of the research.

 

Cheers,

 

Darren."

 

 

 

 

This technology is so green (only by product helium) and solves such a panoply of world problems, if it is as viable as the Department of Defense feels it is, it is the fuel of the American dream.

 

Thank you for your Attention.

 

Erich J. Knight

[[Tycho?]]

This is like the 3rd bloody time you've posted this here. Why the **** do you keep doing this? You arn't even asking questions, you just post meaningless conversations and then disapear for a month before you post the same thing again.

 

Hahahaah, I just skimmed over some of it:

 

"Each of these requires some cash outlays, so I am working them as I can get

resources. Several people, including yourself, are considering helpful

investments of $5k to $10k to 25K to 50K to 100k. Work will progress with

any investment, no matter how small. Capturing an EST is a $5k investment."

 

You're just looking for money! You just spam on a bunch of forums looking for some cash!

[Erich]

Dear Tycho,

 

This is all new information, reviews and responses from my investigations. Positive and negative, yes Clint is looking for money, I' m looking for informed people to help me understand if the technology is viable. Informed discussion, isn't that what a forum is for?

 

Regards,

Erich

[Erich]

Ooh I'm sorry, Only Darren Garnier of the levitated Dipole experiement,review is new. I will be more careful in the future.

 

Erich