Does Listerine have any side effect?

[Newbies_Kid]

When i use Listerine my throat feel very itchy and make me want to cough. I need to drink a lot of fresh water to relieve cough.

[Greg Boyles]

When i use Listerine my throat feel very itchy and make me want to cough. I need to drink a lot of fresh water to relieve cough.

I believe some medical scientists have discovered that the isopropyl alcohol used in mouth washes may be a carcinogen.

 

 

Isopropyl Alcohol: - Implicated in mouth, tongue, and throat cancers. A colorless, volatile, flammable liquid produced by the fermentation of yeast and carbohydrates. Alcohol is used frequently as a solvent and is also found in cleaning agents, cosmetics and personal care products, perfumes and rubbing alcohol, beverages and medicine. As an ingredient in ingestible products, alcohol may cause body tissues to be more vulnerable to carcinogens. Mouthwashes with an alcohol content of 25% or more have been implicated in oral cancers. Poisoning symptoms include flushing, dizziness, depression, nausea, headaches, and coma. Rubbing alcohol baths or sponges used to soothe a fever can lead to acute poisoning through skin absorption or inhalation. Package warning suggest using protective gloves, and using a well-ventilated area.

[Phi for All]

I believe some medical scientists have discovered that the isopropyl alcohol used in mouth washes may be a carcinogen.

Your source may be a bit suspect, since it's repeated in many herbal remedy promotion sites.

 

From OSHA: http://www.osha.gov/...on.html

 

Epidemiological studies suggested an association between isopropyl alcohol and paranasal sinus cancer; however, subsequent analysis suggests that the "strong-acid" process used to manufacture isopropyl alcohol may be responsible for these cancers.

Which still means there may be risks, but manufacturing processes are correctable.

[Newbies_Kid]

Actually i use this product since 3 years ago. But just recently i feel very uncomfortable after using Listerine. My cough become more worst if i stay in air-conditioning room. Yes, i found ethanol in Listerine. May be the drying effect of ethanol cause me wanna cough. I also found Acid Benzoic in its ingredients. Wow Acid + alcohol in Listerine. How can FDA guarantee this product is safe?

[doG]

Wow Acid + alcohol in Listerine. How can FDA guarantee this product is safe?

Hydric acid is frequently added to various concoctions made with ethanol...

[hypervalent_iodine]

I think you'll find 'hydric acid' is added to or present in most anything you consume.

 

Benzoic acid is something you find in food all the time. It's used as a food preservative. I'm not entirely sure why it is in there, though possibly it is one of the other antiseptic ingredients. The ethanol is needed in order to dissolve that as well as all the other antiseptic agents, which are, IIRC, terpenes and won't dissolve in water.

[John Cuthber]

I believe some medical scientists have discovered that the isopropyl alcohol used in mouth washes may be a carcinogen.

I believe that listerine (generally) uses ethanol. That's also widely known to be toxic, but it leaves me wondering why you seem to be worrying about the wrong chemical.

 

They also do an alcohol free version.

[Greg Boyles]

I believe that listerine (generally) uses ethanol. That's also widely known to be toxic, but it leaves me wondering why you seem to be worrying about the wrong chemical.

 

They also do an alcohol free version.

 

Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients, but I seem to remember a news item some time ago about the fact that the isopropyl alcohol in mouth washes may be carcinogenic.

 

But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol and others use ethanol.

 

Ethanol, or more precisely its oxidation product acetaldehyde, is also believed to be carcinogenic.

 

Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

[John Cuthber]

"Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients"

Perhaps you should have.

 

 

"But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol"

Name one.

 

Consumption of alcohol is known to be a risk factor for (at least some ) cancers.

However it is also known that consumption of alcohol in moderation is associated with longer life than being tee total.

 

As far as I'm aware, no study has been done on gargling and spitting it out.

Can you cite one?

 

"Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages."

Studies on alcohol and health are notoriously difficult to do and these seem to be trying to prove a negative- which is a logical impossibility.

Can you cite a reference for them please?

[doG]

Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Can you substantiate that with some links please? Older studies show that a glass of wine a day is actually good for you.

[DrRocket]

"Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients"

Perhaps you should have.

 

 

"But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol"

Name one.

 

Consumption of alcohol is known to be a risk factor for (at least some ) cancers.

However it is also known that consumption of alcohol in moderation is associated with longer life than being tee total.

 

As far as I'm aware, no study has been done on gargling and spitting it out.

Can you cite one?

 

"Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages."

Studies on alcohol and health are notoriously difficult to do and these seem to be trying to prove a negative- which is a logical impossibility.

Can you cite a reference for them please?

 

 

The alcohol in Listerine is ethanol, unsurprisingly. 21.6% per the MSDS

 

http://www.discountofficeitems.com/pub/manu_folders/PFI/PFI42703MSDS1354.pdf

 

 

I recommend gargling and spitting out Listerine.

 

If one intends to swallow ethanol there are more palatable forms. I recommend a nice sour mash Bourbon, a good Scotch or a nice Merlot.

 

Gargliong isopropanol is not recommended. Neither is drinking it. Ditto for methanol (which is why good moonshiners discard the top cut).

[Greg Boyles]

"Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients"

Perhaps you should have.

 

 

"But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol"

Name one.

 

Consumption of alcohol is known to be a risk factor for (at least some ) cancers.

However it is also known that consumption of alcohol in moderation is associated with longer life than being tee total.

 

As far as I'm aware, no study has been done on gargling and spitting it out.

Can you cite one?

 

"Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages."

Studies on alcohol and health are notoriously difficult to do and these seem to be trying to prove a negative- which is a logical impossibility.

Can you cite a reference for them please?

 

"Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized by the liver into acetone by alcohol dehydrogenase. "

 

So medical drug authorities would not allow its use in mouth washes given this.

 

Either I misunderstood the news item or the reporter got it wrong - it was some years ago and I only vaguely recollect the details.

 

Found a mention of methyl alcohol (probably on small amount) sometimes being used in mouth washes - that would be rather dangerous surely.

 

Thankyou for instigating me to correct a misconception that I had picked up by the way.

 

Actually on further reading, I probably got isopropyl alcohol confused with chlorohexidine (as far as mount washes go) as both are common antiseptics used in a wide range of products.

 

http://www.drugs.com/pro/chlorhexidine.html

 

Chlorohexidine is known to be carcinogenic beyond a certain dose.

 

Can you substantiate that with some links please? Older studies show that a glass of wine a day is actually good for you.

 

 

As with anything in life there are both advantages and disadvantages.

 

I believe various components in red wine have antioxidant properties and confer a health benefit, however the high alcohol content also confers a detriment apparently.

 

This was also in a prominent news report on Australian television, by a credible medical scientists/doctor, that I do remember quite well as I was surprised for the same reason as you.

 

Here is a link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_cancer. You can take it from here if you wish.

 

Interesting.....so there is a segment of the population that is particularly at risk from alcohol induced cancer.

AcetaldehydeAcetaldehyde is produced by the liver as it breaks down ethanol. The liver then normally eliminates 99% of the acetaldehyde. An average liver can process 7 grams of ethanol per hour. For example, it takes 12 hours to eliminate the ethanol in a bottle of wine, giving 12 hours or more of acetaldehyde exposure. A study of 818 heavy drinkers found that those who are exposed to more acetaldehyde than normal through a defect in the gene for alcohol dehydrogenase are at greater risk of developing cancers of the upper gastrointestinal tract and liver.^[15]

 

 

Edited December 15, 2011 by Greg Boyles

[CharonY]

Uh, I remember studies where cholorhexidine was tested in cancer patients to figure out whether they provided benefits for mucositis (I think it did not). But I am unaware of studies linking it to cancer in any way.

[Greg Boyles]

Uh, I remember studies where cholorhexidine was tested in cancer patients to figure out whether they provided benefits for mucositis (I think it did not). But I am unaware of studies linking it to cancer in any way.

 

Perhaps it is not so much the chlorohexidine as the perhaps unavoidable impurities in it:

 

http://www.mendeley.com/research/toxic-impurities-in-chlorhexidine-digluconate/

[Ringer]

 

As with anything in life there are both advantages and disadvantages.

 

I believe various components in red wine have antioxidant properties and confer a health benefit, however the high alcohol content also confers a detriment apparently.

 

This was also in a prominent news report on Australian television, by a credible medical scientists/doctor, that I do remember quite well as I was surprised for the same reason as you.

 

Here is a link for you: http://en.wikipedia....ohol_and_cancer. You can take it from here if you wish.

 

Interesting.....so there is a segment of the population that is particularly at risk from alcohol induced cancer.

 

But that's not what you said. You said there was no safe amount of alcohol.

[doG]

Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

 

As with anything in life there are both advantages and disadvantages.I believe various components in red wine have antioxidant properties and confer a health benefit, however the high alcohol content also confers a detriment apparently.This was also in a prominent news report on Australian television, by a credible medical scientists/doctor, that I do remember quite well as I was surprised for the same reason as you.Here is a link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_cancer. You can take it from here if you wish.Interesting.....so there is a segment of the population that is particularly at risk from alcohol induced cancer.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnttttttttt!!!! Wrong answer. You said, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Not only does your link not support your claim, it doesn't even address it. Sorry, no winner this time, please try again.

[John Cuthber]

He also said "But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol and others use ethanol." which was also just plain wrong.

 

Greg,

did you say anything that was both correct and relevant?

(Please note that the OP probably does not have cancer)

[Greg Boyles]

He also said "But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol and others use ethanol." which was also just plain wrong.

 

Greg,

did you say anything that was both correct and relevant?

(Please note that the OP probably does not have cancer)

 

I have recanted this already after reading further about isopropyl alcohol, about mouth washes and about chlorohexidine. My recollection of the details of the matter was simply incorrect.

 

But it does not change the fact that medical authorities now regard alcohol containing mouth washes carcinogenic and that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption in general.

 

Please refer to the links below.

 

 

 

 

This is obviously the medical warning I remember seeing.

 

But it is related to the ethanol content, with no mention of chlorohexidine

 

From 2009....

 

http://www.dailytele...i-1111118530255

 

AUSTRALIA'S top-selling mouthwashes can cause oral cancer and should be pulled from supermarket shelves immediately. Leading independent experts have issued this strong warning after investigating latest scientific evidence linking alcohol-containing mouthwashes to the deadly disease.

 

Their review, published in the Dental Journal of Australia, concludes there is now ``sufficient evidence'' that "alcohol-containing mouthwashes contribute to the increased risk of development of oral cancer''.

 

The ethanol in mouthwash is thought to allow cancer-causing substances to permeate the lining of the mouth more easily and cause harm.

 

Acetaldehyde, a toxic by-product of alcohol that may accumulate in the oral cavity when swished around the mouth, is also believed to be carcinogenic.

 

Listerine, the nation's biggest-selling mouthwash and a brand endorsed by the Australian Dental Association (ADA), contains as much as 26 per cent alcohol.

 

 

And regarding there being no safe level of alcohol consumption.....

 

http://www.abc.net.a...ed/1479126.html

 

She and her doctor might want to rethink their views, given recent Cancer Council guidelines which now state there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. The Council's chief executive Professor Ian Olver has revised his previous stance about moderate consumption in the light of new evidence, and now regards alcohol as ''one of the most carcinogenic products in common use''.

 

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnttttttttt!!!! Wrong answer. You said, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Not only does your link not support your claim, it doesn't even address it. Sorry, no winner this time, please try again.

 

Sure about that?

 

Alcohol also increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, esophagus, pharynx and larynx

 

http://www.sciencefo...209&qpid=644986

Three preparations of chlorhexidine-digluconate were analysed for contamination with a newly developed high-pressure liquid chromatographic method. Of special interest was p-chloroaniline, a toxic as well as a carcinogenic compound. We found concentrations from 1.7 to 8.5 mmol p-chloroaniline per mol chlorhexidine-digluconate, i.e. five-fold differences in the different products. Besides p-chloroaniline many other contaminating substances were found, amongst others p-chlorophenyl-isocyanate and p-chlorophenyl-carbodiimide. The least contamination was found in a branded article, and the highest degree of contamination in a "no-name"-product. During a storage period of half a year in dark glass bottles in a solution of 0.2% under various light and temperature values the p-chloroaniline concentrations increased linearly with the period of storage, with the exception of storage in the dark at 5 degrees C. A constant temperature of 35 degrees C in the dark caused a greater increase than storing at 20-25 degrees C in the dark or the light or in direct sunlight. Therefore under similar conditions it is mostly warmth which causes an increase in toxic compounds.

 

Consider if your mouth wash contains both ethanol and chlorohexidine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There a signficant tax on alcoholic beverages, but doesn't that extend other products that contain ethanol in a drinkable form.

 

For example the alcoholic essences in the baking isles of supermarkets were being used a cheap source of alcohol by youths but governments have since extended that tax to these items. With the result that the manufactures no longer use ethanol as a base for these essences. Is my recollection correct here?

 

In which case manufactures of mouth washes would use alternative alcohols if they could. Probably why mouth washes are rather expensive.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Greg Boyles

[doG]

Sure about that?

Yes. You've linked to an opinion in a news report. A review of the actual position of the Cancer Council on alcohol does not support the assertion that there is no safe level. You specifically claimed, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Now, where are those studies?

Edited December 16, 2011 by doG

[Greg Boyles]

Yes. You've linked to an opinion in a news report. A review of the actual position of the Cancer Council on alcohol does not support the assertion that there is no safe level. You specifically claimed, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Now, where are those studies?

 

Fair enough.

 

htp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100729075015.htm

 

But on further digging it would appear that this message was specifically concerned with teenage binge drinking, and pregnant woman also, but was being applied more generally.

 

Another lesson in not taking for granted what is said in the media even when they quote credible souces.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Greg Boyles

[John Cuthber]

There's a theoretical risk of cancer from the tiny amount of alcohol absorbed while using a mouthwash.

However we know that, in practice, even people who drink a lot don't generally get the cancers associated with alcohol consumption.

Has anyone checked the effect of the reduction in oral bacterial count on the incidence of buccal cancers?

[CharonY]

Consider if your mouth wash contains both ethanol and chlorohexidine.

Well, as said, chlorhexidine preparations (impurities or not) have not been associated with cancer. Regarding impurities: considering the dearth of newer publications, it would be interesting to measure the actual presence of them in actual formulations. However, taking the provided values as a benchmark 1.7-8.5 mmol per mol chlorhexidine. Assuming 0.2 % (w/v) in mouthwash, that would be 2g/l or roughly a 2 mM concentration. So p-chloroaniline is present only in low µM concentrations. Two more bits on p-chloroaniline are needed here.

First, it is classified as a 2B carcinogen (i.e. usually no information for human and very limited, if at all, for animals). So regardless of other information, carcinogenic effects are basically unknown, but certainly not acute (i.e. if there is an effect, they are certainly to be expected at higher levels).

Second, regarding general toxicity of p-chloroaniline: in mice concentrations of 80 mg/kg resulted in a weight differences of 10% or higher (i.e. it can be considered the minimum adverse effect level). That corresponds to about 0.6 mmol per kg body weight. Considering an individual with 50 kg body weight that would be 31 mmol p-chloroaniline before the onset of any measurable harmful effects. One would have to ingest liters of the stuff to get there.

 

Just my 2 cents (and no guarantees regarding calculation errors).

[doG]

Fair enough.

 

htp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100729075015.htm

 

But on further digging it would appear that this message was specifically concerned with teenage binge drinking, and pregnant woman also, but was being applied more generally.

 

Another lesson in not taking for granted what is said in the media even when they quote credible souces.

Still no support for your claim. Again, you said, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Again, where are those studies?

[Greg Boyles]

Still no support for your claim. Again, you said, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Again, where are those studies?

 

 

My understanding from that last link is that 'no safe level of consumption' is related to the detrimental effects of alcohol on the developing teenage brain and the foetus rather than to the development of cancer.

 

So my above statement may be true but not for the reason I and the reporters were assuming and not for the segment of society that I and the reporters were assuming.

 

 

Short of paying a visit to the university of Melbourne Ballieu Library and trauling through all the medical journals etc, I am probably unlikely to find the official scientific sources for this statement.

 

But here is a federal government source also stating that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption by teenagers. Would you dismiss this is nothing more than an invalid opinion in the same category as a HeraldSun article or what ever?

 

http://www.alcohol.g...re-teen-alcohol

Is there a safe level of alcohol use for teenagers?

The short answer is no, there is no safe level of alcohol use for teenagers, especially those under the age of 18. The Australian Alcohol Guidelines (see later) provide information on how many standard drinks a person can consume before their health is placed at high risk of harm. These limits are, however, meant for adults. The risk for young people is likely to be higher than for adults. Parents are the best judge of whether teenagers are ready to drink alcohol. It is, however, particularly risky for a person under the age of 16 to drink alcohol. It is also usually unlawful for under-18s to buy, be supplied with or drink alcohol on licensed premises.

 

 

More digging.....

 

Here is an article written by a UK university professor: http://www.guardian....hol-consumption

 

Last week I attended a discussion group chaired by the Observer's health correspondent Denis Campbell where one of the other experts, a public health doctor, asserted that alcohol should be treated differently from tobacco (and by inference other drugs) because there is no safe dose of tobacco whereas alcohol is safe until a person's drinking gets to "unsafe" levels. Its health benefits for the cardiovascular system are also often used to support the claim that in low doses alcohol is safe, for how else could it be health-promoting?

 

The myth of a safe level of drinking is a powerful claim. It is one that many health professionals appear to believe in and that the alcohol industry uses to defend its strategy of making the drug readily available at low prices. However, the claim is wrong and the supporting evidence flawed.

 

There is no safe dose of alcohol for these reasons:

 

• Alcohol is a toxin that kills cells such as microorganisms, which is why we use it to preserve food and sterilise skin, needles etc. Alcohol kills humans too. A dose only four times as high as the amount that would make blood levels exceed drink-driving limits in the UK can kill. The toxicity of alcohol is worsened because in order for it to be cleared from the body it has to be metabolised to acetaldehyde, an even more toxic substance. Any food or drink contaminated with the amount of acetaldehyde that a unit of alcohol produces would be immediately banned as having an unacceptable health risk.

 

• Although most people do not become addicted to alcohol on their first drink, a small proportion do. As a clinical psychiatrist who has worked with alcoholics for more than 30 years, I have seen many people who have experienced a strong liking of alcohol from their very first exposure and then gone on to become addicted to it. We cannot at present predict who these people will be, so any exposure to alcohol runs the risk of producing addiction in some users.

 

• The supposed cardiovascular benefits of a low level of alcohol intake in some middle-aged men cannot be taken as proof that alcohol is beneficial. To do that one would need a randomised trial where part of this group drink no alcohol, others drink in small amounts and others more heavily. Until this experiment has been done we don't have proof that alcohol has health benefits. A recent example of where an epidemiological association was found not to be true when tested properly was hormone replacement therapy. Population observations suggested that HRT was beneficial for post-menopausal women, but when controlled trials were conducted it was found to cause more harm than good.

 

• For all other diseases associated with alcohol there is no evidence of any benefit of low alcohol intake – the risks of accidents, cancer, ulcers etc rise inexorably with intake.

.

.

.

.

 

 

David Nutt is professor of neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College London and chairs the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs

 

John Cuthber do you still insist on dismissing this as an totally unsubstantiated opinion?

 

I could equally say that you position that there is or may be a safe level of alcohol consumption is equally unsubstantiated opinion most likely being generated by the alcoholic beverage industry.

 

The only source that you have so far based you position on is the position on alcohol consumption of the anti cancer council. But this is an advocacy organisation that is not engaged directly in scientific research and relies upon studies from universities etc. So one might conclude that their position is an opinion based upon the scientific papers scientists they have so far read and consulted.

 

So where are your direct medical scientific sources that support your position that there is or may be a safe level of alcohol consumption?

 

So far I have provided you with one to support my position.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Greg Boyles

[John Cuthber]

"John Cuthber do you still insist on dismissing this as an totally unsubstantiated opinion?"

 

Since I never did, your question makes no sense.

 

And, re you assertion, "I could equally say that you position that there is or may be a safe level of alcohol consumption is equally unsubstantiated opinion most likely being generated by the alcoholic beverage industry."

You could say that, but you would be wrong so I suggest that you shouldn't say it.

 

Anyway, in answer to the question "So where are your direct medical scientific sources that support your position that there is or may be a safe level of alcohol consumption?"

This

"compared to moderate drinkers, abstainers had a more than 2 times increased mortality risk, heavy drinkers had 70% increased risk, and light drinkers had 23% increased risk. "

from here

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/abstract

 

Or " After 12 years of follow-up per subject (21,716 man years of follow-up in all), 159 men have died, 74 from CHD. Incidence rates of overall mortality were lowest for moderate drinkers in each of three age groups."

from

http://www.jsad.com/jsad/article/Alcohol_Consumption_and_Mortality_in_an_American_Male_Population_Recoverin/1772.html

seem fairly typical.

 

Incidentally, in order to avoid the forum being sued for slander perhaps we should clarify a few things.

Listerine does not contain isopropanol.

It also does not contain chlorhexidine.

All the ingredients (at least all those listed in WIKI) are also present in foods.

 

 

And, while we are at it.

I already said that alcohol is toxic and a carcinogen. So is the primary metabolite, acetaldehyde.

However to put that into context, both materials are added to food and drinks.

I'm sure we all know about alcohol in drinks.

Acetaldehyde is used as a flavouring - notably for orange flavoured food and drink. It's also present in the natural products.

 

There really is a difference in risk between teenagers drinking and people using mouthwash.