njaohnt Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 The bible is no proof, and "think" is no evidence. Well, unless this video is a fake, I think that the Bible is good evidence. http://youtube.com/?rdm=4oox72j3o&reload=3#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0eWDStbQxc0&v=0eWDStbQxc0&gl=CA "Think" is evidence. They found it, but they didn't have cameras with them, so they can't prove it, but it's evidence, because they are 99.9% sure that it was Noah's ark.
iNow Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 Maybe like this: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH503.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
njaohnt Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 njaohnt - You may not realize this, but the source you shared is a very poor one, often quite wrong and nearly always quite biased. Perhaps you can use something a little more objective to support your claims? Everything except the one's that don't support Christianity are exactly like this one. No matter what you say, I am sticking to Christianity, and you can be assured that I am praying for all of you. So if a miracle happens in your life, and you know that God is real, and there was no big bang, let me know, because that can count as evidence for this topic. If that happens, tell the world.
Phi for All Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 That's not a soul. The fundamental of the soul is the brain, but you are one of many. On what do you base this assertion? The Bible says that God told Noah to build the ark at more than 1.5 million feet cubed, though it could have been bigger, because it was measured in cubics back then, and there were many types of cubics, and this is according to the smallest type of cubic. There were only two types of "cubits" used in the Bible, which have been measured from ruins and tunnels built at the time and referenced. One cubit (the most common) was about 17.5 inches long and the other was about 20.4 inches long. This would make the ark around 450 feet long. Even modern wooden ships don't go above 300 feet and require metal reinforcements because of the stress such lengths place on the material, even when they have no cargo. 1
mooeypoo Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 Everything except the one's that don't support Christianity are exactly like this one. No matter what you say, I am sticking to Christianity, and you can be assured that I am praying for all of you. So if a miracle happens in your life, and you know that God is real, and there was no big bang, let me know, because that can count as evidence for this topic. If that happens, tell the world. I think you should be very careful against preaching, sinc ethat would be against our rules. njaohnt. You gave us a single source, and we tell you we want others. I personally posted 2 links for you to read, and iNow posted 2 more. Are you really expecting that only WE read your sources, and you not read ours? Is that what you consider a fair respectful debate? the links iNow shared answer 100% of your claims. As I explained in an earlier post, we seem to be talking quite a different language, and the continuing of this debate depends on YOUR willingness to participate, seeing as *you* are the one who came to *us* and not the other way around. Fair. ~mooey
Phi for All Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 "Think" is evidence. Never. No. Definitely NOT, especially here. They found it, but they didn't have cameras with them, so they can't prove it, but it's evidence, because they are 99.9% sure that it was Noah's ark. You don't think it's bizarre that these guys who went looking for the Ark "didn't have cameras with them" when they found it?
njaohnt Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 Never. No. Definitely NOT, especially here. You don't think it's bizarre that these guys who went looking for the Ark "didn't have cameras with them" when they found it? No. They were mountain climbing, not looking for the ark.
Phi for All Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 No. They were mountain climbing, not looking for the ark. It sounds like you don't read ANY links, including your own: From your link: Turkish and Chinese explorers from a group called Noah's Ark Ministries International made the latest discovery claim Monday in Hong Kong, where the group is based. Would YOU go searching for the ark and not bring any cameras?
njaohnt Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 I think you should be very careful against preaching, sinc ethat would be against our rules. njaohnt. You gave us a single source, and we tell you we want others. I personally posted 2 links for you to read, and iNow posted 2 more. Are you really expecting that only WE read you sources, and you not read ours? Is that what you consider a fair respectful debate? the links iNow shared answer 100% of your claims. As I explained in an earlier post, we seem to be talking quite a different language, and the continuing of this debate depends on YOUR willingness to participate, seeing as *you* are the one who came to *us* and not the other way around. Fair. ~mooey I read all sources. Perhaps I talk differently, in which that you misunderstand.
mooeypoo Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 I read all sources. Perhaps I talk differently, in which that you misunderstand. Seems I'm not the only one, seeing as everyone asks you about them. If you read them, what is it that you still didn't get an answer on? They answered all of your points and show you exactly what the facts ACTUALLY are, rather than the misrepresentations you get through the video you posted.
Phi for All Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 Perhaps I talk differently, in which that you misunderstand. When you say things like: No matter what you say, I am sticking to Christianity ... it tells us you don't really care how much evidence we have to support our position. This then stops becoming a discussion, and this IS a discussion forum. There are plenty of ways you can be a Christian and still study all the evidence that supports the Big Bang theory, or Evolution. Taking every single word in the Bible LITERALLY, without interpreting it from the point of view of its millennia-old writers, makes it infinitely harder to understand how you can appreciate scientific evidence and maintain your faith at the same time. MOST Christians are NOT creationists.
njaohnt Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 It sounds like you don't read ANY links, including your own: From your link: Would YOU go searching for the ark and not bring any cameras? I was talking about it's first discovery, not this expidition. As for this one, for some reason they don't want too much attention the ark, and why, they did not say.
mooeypoo Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I was talking about it's first discovery, not this expidition. As for this one, for some reason they don't want too much attention the ark, and why, they did not say. Then find some that do say something. You can't expect us to guess the evidence. Do the work and present actual evidence, stop beating around the bush.
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I was talking about it's first discovery, not this expidition. As for this one, for some reason they don't want too much attention the ark, and why, they did not say. Noah's Ark is trivially falsified, the existence of echinoderms, cephalopods, and salamanders falsify Noah's Ark completely, the list of other animals that could not possibly have survived such a flood is vast (not to mention plants), the actual number of creatures that the ark would have had to contain just to allow land animals to survive would take a vessel many times bigger than a modern nuclear attack carrier. sit down and give it some real thought, thousands of species of ants bees, not to mention many thousands of insects, millions of species of animals all told, then there is the food supply for those animals both before and after the flood, it's nothing but a silly fairy tale. Then you have the problem of a genetic bottle neck, it is easily proven that all animals (not to mention people) on the earth did not originate 4000 years ago... dude you are embarrassing your self... stop worshiping a book written by bronze age savages about myths of gods.... you do not have to worship that book to be a Christian, Science does not equal atheist, you can choose to believe gods work in naturalistic ways but one thing is for sure, the bible is fiction, cover to cover... Oh yeah, if you want to play dueling videos I'm armed and ready.... Try this series by Potholer54, then get back to me. http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54#p/c/DB23537556D7AADB/0/wg1fs6vp9Ok Edited January 2, 2012 by Moontanman
njaohnt Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Noah's Ark is trivially falsified, the existence of echinoderms, cephalopods, and salamanders falsify Noah's Ark completely, the list of other animals that could not possibly have survived such a flood is vast (not to mention plants), the actual number of creatures that the ark would have had to contain just to allow land animals to survive would take a vessel many times bigger than a modern nuclear attack carrier. sit down and give it some real thought, thousands of species of ants bees, not to mention many thousands of insects, millions of species of animals all told, then there is the food supply for those animals both before and after the flood, it's nothing but a silly fairy tale. Then you have the problem of a genetic bottle neck, it is easily proven that all animals (not to mention people) on the earth did not originate 4000 years ago... dude you are embarrassing your self... stop worshiping a book written by bronze age savages about myths of gods.... you do not have to worship that book to be a Christian, Science does not equal atheist, you can choose to believe gods work in naturalistic ways but one thing is for sure, the bible is fiction, cover to cover... Oh yeah, if you want to play dueling videos I'm armed and ready.... Try this series by Potholer54, then get back to me. http://www.youtube.c...B/0/wg1fs6vp9Ok Without the Bible Christianity is nothing. If the Bible is false, cover to cover, then what's there to believe in? Animals can survive without food for 40 days, and nights, and so can many plants under water for that time. Even the plants that could had seeds that planted. See http://www.talkorigi...CH/CH512_2.html it says that Noah's ark was not overly crowded. I don't know if any of the big bang stuff is true, but I guess God could have made the big bang happen when He was creating the universe. Well I know if anyone can prove there was a big bang, so I think I'm going to stick with "I don't know". However, I do still think that God has protected the Bible for all these years, and that it is true, cover to cover. Noah's ark for sure happened. Edited January 2, 2012 by njaohnt
Moontanman Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Without the Bible Christianity is nothing. If the Bible is false, cover to cover, then what's there to believe in? Animals can survive without food for 40 days, and nights, and so can many plants under water for that time. Even the plants that could had seeds that planted. See http://www.talkorigi...CH/CH512_2.html it says that Noah's ark was not overly crowded. I don't know if any of the big bang stuff is true, but I guess God could have made the big bang happen when He was creating the universe. Well I know if anyone can prove there was a big bang, so I think I'm going to stick with "I don't know". However, I do still think that God has protected the Bible for all these years, and that it is true, cover to cover. Noah's ark for sure happened. You can believe in what ever you want, belief does not equal knowledge by any stretch of the imagination. Did you bother to watch the videos I suggested? I watched yours. Noah's ark is not true, it is easily shown not to be true, as I said echinoderms, cephalopods and amphibians easily show it to be false. The bible describes the Earth as a flat disc covered by a crystal dome which is under water, the sun and moon travel across this crystal dome, this is easy shown not to be true. The water for the flood came in through the windows of heaven? Where are they? Where did all the water go after the flood was over, give this stuff some thought, it is just silly. I knew it was silly when I was 8 years old. Echinoderms, starfish, sea urchins, cannot live in diluted sea water neither can salamanders nor can a great many fish and other sea and freshwater creatures, corals come to mind as well. The idea of Noah's ark is just silly, it cannot be supported by the evidence. Animals can survive for 40 days without food? Damn man you don't even know your own holy book, the flood lasted far longer than 40 days and the idea of mammals surviving with no food for 40 days is a silly argument, what did they eat after the flood waters had gone where ever that volume of water, many times the current volume of the sea, go? Do you even have an idea of how big the Earth really is and how diverse the plants and animals are? I can name lots of trees and plants that would not have survived such a flood, even from seeds or spores. Use the brain you have to actually think... The Bible is full of murder, rape, pillage, child molestation, genocide, committed by humans at the demand of god and your holy book is not the only one, there are many, some older than yours and the adherents are just as sure your beliefs are false, don't be willfully ignorant, the knowledge is out there and google is your friend, stop listening to the misrepresentations, lies and out right fabrications of religious apologetics, use your brain, God did not write the bible, men did and not even superior men, just men who wrote about the myths and legends of the bronze age cultures around them and used them for their own purposes, usually that meant tales of killing and other things we consider crimes today. Believe if you want but if you claim it's true on this forum you will be shown it's fallacies every time.... Another video for you to ignore in your love of ignorance.... http://www.youtube.com/user/brettppalmer?feature=watch#p/c/99354F7586D7BCCD/0/_sD_7rxYoZY
swansont Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Without the Bible Christianity is nothing. If the Bible is false, cover to cover, then what's there to believe in? Animals can survive without food for 40 days, and nights, and so can many plants under water for that time. Even the plants that could had seeds that planted. See http://www.talkorigi...CH/CH512_2.html it says that Noah's ark was not overly crowded. I don't know if any of the big bang stuff is true, but I guess God could have made the big bang happen when He was creating the universe. Well I know if anyone can prove there was a big bang, so I think I'm going to stick with "I don't know". However, I do still think that God has protected the Bible for all these years, and that it is true, cover to cover. Noah's ark for sure happened. I don't think anyone is claiming that the Bible is false, cover-to-cover (which is not the same as not being true, cover-to-cover). But a book does not constitute evidence, it's merely a proxy for it. If Noah's ark is true, how do you account for the current genetic diversity we see on the planet?
mooeypoo Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 ... but I guess God could have made the big bang happen when He was creating the universe. I thought the big bang is impossible.... Also, that's not what they say in the bible, is it. The bible has 2 creation stories, each slightly different. Even if you can't account for the science, I would start by accounting for the inconsistencies in those stories. Well I know if anyone can prove there was a big bang, so I think I'm going to stick with "I don't know". However, I do still think that God has protected the Bible for all these years, and that it is true, cover to cover. Noah's ark for sure happened. Double standard. You want us to prove the big bang, but you aren't willing to prove the alternative you propose. If your idea of "proof" is "it's written in an ancient book", then we have a problem, seeing as you'd have to believe in quite a number of chinese beliefs (many were older than the OT) and african myths found on ancient scrolls. You came to us with a preset belief that you are not willing to even consider improving. You said so yourself. By definition, then, you are unwilling to conduct a debate. What are you here for, then? Preach? You won't convince scientific people with unsupported stories from an ancient book. You will convince us with proper evidence, experiment results, peer reviewed papers. Also, sorry to tell you, but "God the creator" idea is unfalsifiable, which automatically makes it irrelevant for science. Either give up and go to a theology forum to preach to the choir, or re-assess the way you discuss science with people who follow its methodology. ~mooey
njaohnt Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 You can believe in what ever you want, belief does not equal knowledge by any stretch of the imagination. Did you bother to watch the videos I suggested? I watched yours. Noah's ark is not true, it is easily shown not to be true, as I said echinoderms, cephalopods and amphibians easily show it to be false. The bible describes the Earth as a flat disc covered by a crystal dome which is under water, the sun and moon travel across this crystal dome, this is easy shown not to be true. The water for the flood came in through the windows of heaven? Where are they? Where did all the water go after the flood was over, give this stuff some thought, it is just silly. I knew it was silly when I was 8 years old. Echinoderms, starfish, sea urchins, cannot live in diluted sea water neither can salamanders nor can a great many fish and other sea and freshwater creatures, corals come to mind as well. The idea of Noah's ark is just silly, it cannot be supported by the evidence. Animals can survive for 40 days without food? Damn man you don't even know your own holy book, the flood lasted far longer than 40 days and the idea of mammals surviving with no food for 40 days is a silly argument, what did they eat after the flood waters had gone where ever that volume of water, many times the current volume of the sea, go? Do you even have an idea of how big the Earth really is and how diverse the plants and animals are? I can name lots of trees and plants that would not have survived such a flood, even from seeds or spores. Use the brain you have to actually think... The Bible is full of murder, rape, pillage, child molestation, genocide, committed by humans at the demand of god and your holy book is not the only one, there are many, some older than yours and the adherents are just as sure your beliefs are false, don't be willfully ignorant, the knowledge is out there and google is your friend, stop listening to the misrepresentations, lies and out right fabrications of religious apologetics, use your brain, God did not write the bible, men did and not even superior men, just men who wrote about the myths and legends of the bronze age cultures around them and used them for their own purposes, usually that meant tales of killing and other things we consider crimes today. Believe if you want but if you claim it's true on this forum you will be shown it's fallacies every time.... Another video for you to ignore in your love of ignorance.... http://www.youtube.com/user/brettppalmer?feature=watch#p/c/99354F7586D7BCCD/0/_sD_7rxYoZY How did these things happen? MIRICLES! Also, the Bible says nothing about the Earth being a flat disc. It says that it's a sphere, with a dome of water surrounding it. God did write the Bible, He used good followers to write it, and it says that everything in the book is "God-Breathed" so I think that He protected. Where did the water go after the flood? Into the ground, maybe it made some of the oceans. I thought the big bang is impossible.... Also, that's not what they say in the bible, is it. The bible has 2 creation stories, each slightly different. Even if you can't account for the science, I would start by accounting for the inconsistencies in those stories. Double standard. You want us to prove the big bang, but you aren't willing to prove the alternative you propose. If your idea of "proof" is "it's written in an ancient book", then we have a problem, seeing as you'd have to believe in quite a number of chinese beliefs (many were older than the OT) and african myths found on ancient scrolls. You came to us with a preset belief that you are not willing to even consider improving. You said so yourself. By definition, then, you are unwilling to conduct a debate. What are you here for, then? Preach? You won't convince scientific people with unsupported stories from an ancient book. You will convince us with proper evidence, experiment results, peer reviewed papers. Also, sorry to tell you, but "God the creator" idea is unfalsifiable, which automatically makes it irrelevant for science. Either give up and go to a theology forum to preach to the choir, or re-assess the way you discuss science with people who follow its methodology. ~mooey Well, I guess the Bible does say how the big bang could have happened, but it still could. It doesn't say how long a day was, or how the light and the stars and moon, and everything came, so it's possible by the Bible, but I don't know if God wanted us to know how the universe came to be. What am I here for? Nothing, that post about how I am going to stick with "I don't know" was supposed to be a concluding thought. I am sure that God protected the Bible.
mooeypoo Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Well, I guess the Bible does say how the big bang could have happened, but it still could. Wait, I'm confused -- you mean "doesn't" ? If not (and sorry for the confusion) then I'd love to see the quote that says something about the Big Bang. I studied the OT quite extensively, I've never seen anything remotely close to it. It doesn't say how long a day was, or how the light and the stars and moon, and everything came, so it's possible by the Bible, but I don't know if God wanted us to know how the universe came to be. True, the biblical account of creation does not state how long each day was, that much is true, and could have also taken 10,000,000 of what we consider "years" now. This would make the theory that the universe is 14 billion years old actually plausible, by the way, wouldn't it? That said, the problems I have with the creation story isn't about the time, it's about the details: I would expect a God that invents the laws of physics to get the details straight. Of course he COULD have changed the rules right after he invented them, and then change them back, but you have to admit that's quite a trick for a God that you claim really really wants us to believe he exists. Here are two examples: Creation of Day and Night in the first day. And yet, the creation of the Sun, moon and stars is on Day 4. How do you have day and night without the sun? Follow up on the same principle, God creates the Earth, seas and Plants before the sun. First, no plants without the sun (and if each day is a lot longer than a few hours, the plants would die without sun light). Second, planet Earth would go whoooooshing through space without the gravity from the Sun. No orbit. And guess what? No tides, either, without the Moon, which was also created a day later. Either god's TRYING to confuse us on purpose (and then why complain when we fall for it? he's a lot stronger!) or that's not the way things happened. A rather nice lay out of some of the problems can be found in this page: http://www.vexen.co....html#Chronology What am I here for? Nothing, that post about how I am going to stick with "I don't know" was supposed to be a concluding thought. I am sure that God protected the Bible. "I don't know" is much better for a discussion than "I don't care what you say, I'll stick to X". Don't you agree?
Tres Juicy Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) They've found Noah's ark on a mountain, it's the same dimensions as the Bible told Noah to build it. Noah's ark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln64DYflGT4 I think you'll find that this video is much more informative and factually accurate than the one you posted. It also says that no one will live longer than 120 years, but before the flood, people were living long, 750-950 years. So, if there were a large amount of water in the sky, it could protect the world from the sun's radiation, so that things could live long, and grow big. That is enough evidence for me, to go against any other theory, but what really happened, I don't know, but I'm very sure that this is what happened. Really?! Also, you mention fossils - Doesn't the bible say that there were no dinosaurs? Edited January 13, 2012 by Tres Juicy 3
Moontanman Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 How did these things happen? MIRICLES! If you believe that then why bother to discuss this on a science forum, you certinly cannot show any evidence of miracles. But I can and have shown evidence of God being a psychopathic liar... yes you ignored all the murder and mayhem that was done by the will of that evil being you worship. Also, the Bible says nothing about the Earth being a flat disc. It says that it's a sphere, with a dome of water surrounding it. Not true, i posted a link to a video that explains it in great detail, the bible says the Earth is a round disc covered by a crystal dome under the water of the deep. Where did the water go after the flood? Into the ground, maybe it made some of the oceans. It was a miracle, god sucked the excess water up his ass....
njaohnt Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 Really?! Also, you mention fossils - Doesn't the bible say that there were no dinosaurs? No.
Moontanman Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 No. Ok then, what happened to them? Where did they go?
Tres Juicy Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 it makes perfect sense as to why everything that they find(fossils) is so big. You mentioned them here 1
Recommended Posts