Do you think people like Michael Moore and George Soros hurt the democrats?

[Aardvark]

So if Bush attacks Iraq without UN permission then he will be in violation of the UN Charter' date=' the Nuremberg Charter, HJR114, and indirectly the Constitution. These are ground for impeachment.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for that post, that's the first time anyone has actually bothered to try and detail what they mean by Bushs 'illegal' actions.

 

I'm afraid that i think you are defending a weak case here. Looking at your argument i am not convinced he acted illegally.

 

Congress granted the President the authority to declare war as he determined necessary. This resolution stated that it did not alter constitional powers or existing treaties. To jump from that to saying that the President was completely constrained from acting without UN approval is a leap to far. Simply, it is stating that current treaties have not been amended by this granting of authority to the President.

 

Bush can argue he deemed it necessary to attack Iraq to 'defend US against threat', as he was granted authority to. Therefore the Nuremburg Charter does not constrict him.

 

The only real arguement is that the UN charter has supremacy over the US legal/policitical system. He is not in violation of HJR114, but might be in violation of the UN charter. That is not enough to impeach him.

 

'Section. 4.

 

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.'

 

Convict him for what? I don't see how the UN charter takes precedence over the US constition and the granting of discretionary authority to the President by Congress.

 

Unless the UN has legal supremacy over the US there is no legal case against G W Bush.

 

I think that some people mix up the legal with the moral case. Just because the war might be wrong in some peoples eyes, doesn't automatically make it illegal.

[Aardvark]

So if Bush attacks Iraq without UN permission then he will be in violation of the UN Charter' date=' the Nuremberg Charter, HJR114, and indirectly the Constitution. These are ground for impeachment.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for that post, that's the first time anyone has actually bothered to try and detail what they mean by Bushs 'illegal' actions.

 

I'm afraid that i think you are defending a weak case here. Looking at your argument i am not convinced he acted illegally.

 

Congress granted the President the authority to declare war as he determined necessary. This resolution stated that it did not alter constitional powers or existing treaties. To jump from that to saying that the President was completely constrained from acting without UN approval is a leap to far. Simply, it is stating that current treaties have not been amended by this granting of authority to the President.

 

Bush can argue he deemed it necessary to attack Iraq to 'defend US against threat', as he was granted authority to. Therefore the Nuremburg Charter does not constrict him.

 

The only real arguement is that the UN charter has supremacy over the US legal/policitical system. He is not in violation of HJR114, but might be in violation of the UN charter. That is not enough to impeach him.

 

'Section. 4.

 

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.'

 

Convict him for what? I don't see how the UN charter takes precedence over the US constition and the granting of discretionary authority to the President by Congress.

 

Unless the UN has legal supremacy over the US there is no legal case against G W Bush.

 

I think that some people mix up the legal with the moral case. Just because the war might be wrong in some peoples eyes, doesn't automatically make it illegal.

[budullewraagh]

Congress granted the President the authority to declare war as he determined necessary. This resolution stated that it did not alter constitional powers or existing treaties.

remember, we lack seperation of powers

[budullewraagh]

Congress granted the President the authority to declare war as he determined necessary. This resolution stated that it did not alter constitional powers or existing treaties.

remember, we lack seperation of powers

[Aardvark]

remember, we lack seperation of powers

 

What do you mean by that?

[Aardvark]

remember, we lack seperation of powers

 

What do you mean by that?

[_13eoWuLF__]

The Republicians are great at making others who don't agree with them look as if they are extremist such as Moore. This is the reason so many people have the idea that Liberal is a bad thing. Liberal comes from the word LIBERTY, in my book thats a good thing.

 

When confronted with any type of facts and figures or films for that matter the usual response form Karl Roves minions is to discredit the opposition without actually aswering any charges.

 

As for me I have believe the Democratic party and the Republican party are more concerned with staying in power rather than actually helping the public.

 

There was a time in America when Politicians actually held the common good of the people above the common good of corporations.

 

The biggest problem I have with Bush is his lack of putting science and reason above mystical beliefs. We have a president that still belives the jury is still out on Evolution, and that Global Warming is also a non issue. Does teh President also belive the Earth is 6000 years old?

 

To me these facts alone would be enough to have elected Kerry however I underestimated just how uninformed and ignorant my fellow Americans have become.

[_13eoWuLF__]

The Republicians are great at making others who don't agree with them look as if they are extremist such as Moore. This is the reason so many people have the idea that Liberal is a bad thing. Liberal comes from the word LIBERTY, in my book thats a good thing.

 

When confronted with any type of facts and figures or films for that matter the usual response form Karl Roves minions is to discredit the opposition without actually aswering any charges.

 

As for me I have believe the Democratic party and the Republican party are more concerned with staying in power rather than actually helping the public.

 

There was a time in America when Politicians actually held the common good of the people above the common good of corporations.

 

The biggest problem I have with Bush is his lack of putting science and reason above mystical beliefs. We have a president that still belives the jury is still out on Evolution, and that Global Warming is also a non issue. Does teh President also belive the Earth is 6000 years old?

 

To me these facts alone would be enough to have elected Kerry however I underestimated just how uninformed and ignorant my fellow Americans have become.

[chadn]

The Republicians are great at making others who don't agree with them look as if they are extremist such as Moore. This is the reason so many people have the idea that Liberal is a bad thing. Liberal comes from the word LIBERTY, in my book thats a good thing.

 

Liberty may be the root word, but that doesnt mean that politically speaking liberal = liberty.

 

The biggest problem I have with Bush is his lack of putting science and reason above mystical beliefs. We have a president that still belives the jury is still out on Evolution, and that Global Warming is also a non issue. Does teh President also belive the Earth is 6000 years old?

 

To me these facts alone would be enough to have elected Kerry however I underestimated just how uninformed and ignorant my fellow Americans have become.

 

Dude, Im well informed on science and I still put those so called mystic beliefs before science. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are uninformed and ignorant. I find your above statement to be very uninformed and ignorant.

[chadn]

The Republicians are great at making others who don't agree with them look as if they are extremist such as Moore. This is the reason so many people have the idea that Liberal is a bad thing. Liberal comes from the word LIBERTY, in my book thats a good thing.

 

Liberty may be the root word, but that doesnt mean that politically speaking liberal = liberty.

 

The biggest problem I have with Bush is his lack of putting science and reason above mystical beliefs. We have a president that still belives the jury is still out on Evolution, and that Global Warming is also a non issue. Does teh President also belive the Earth is 6000 years old?

 

To me these facts alone would be enough to have elected Kerry however I underestimated just how uninformed and ignorant my fellow Americans have become.

 

Dude, Im well informed on science and I still put those so called mystic beliefs before science. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are uninformed and ignorant. I find your above statement to be very uninformed and ignorant.

[_13eoWuLF__]

_ ^ k well that is you opinion and more than half of America belives as you do. However that doesn't make you right =(

[_13eoWuLF__]

_ ^ k well that is you opinion and more than half of America belives as you do. However that doesn't make you right =(

[r1dermon]

chadn, what he's trying to say is that bush is so wrapped up in a faith system that denies the advancement of society. i dont know about you, but i want technology to improve. by contributing to companies that deal with oil power, bush has denied that technology can supply BETTER, more EFFICIENT power which is RENEWABLE. he just doesnt understand, as a small mind wouldnt, the extent of technology in this decade. he still believes in the old work 9-5, be a hero, drink a beer addage. he works his belief in god into the laws that he passes, and so we are all living his belief system, which hey, you are free to have it, but dont impose it upon people who dont share your beliefs. just like you'd be pretty pissed if the pledge was revised to say under god, zeus, and hercules.

[r1dermon]

chadn, what he's trying to say is that bush is so wrapped up in a faith system that denies the advancement of society. i dont know about you, but i want technology to improve. by contributing to companies that deal with oil power, bush has denied that technology can supply BETTER, more EFFICIENT power which is RENEWABLE. he just doesnt understand, as a small mind wouldnt, the extent of technology in this decade. he still believes in the old work 9-5, be a hero, drink a beer addage. he works his belief in god into the laws that he passes, and so we are all living his belief system, which hey, you are free to have it, but dont impose it upon people who dont share your beliefs. just like you'd be pretty pissed if the pledge was revised to say under god, zeus, and hercules.

[_13eoWuLF__]

liberal, progressive

a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

 

I think protection of liberties is a good thing no?

[_13eoWuLF__]

liberal, progressive

a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

 

I think protection of liberties is a good thing no?

[_13eoWuLF__]

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

- Benjamin Franklin

 

This reminds me of the Patroit act.

[_13eoWuLF__]

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

- Benjamin Franklin

 

This reminds me of the Patroit act.

[chadn]

chadn, what he's trying to say is that bush is so wrapped up in a faith system that denies the advancement of society. i dont know about you, but i want technology to improve. by contributing to companies that deal with oil power

 

I want all corporate welfare to end now.

 

 

he just doesnt understand, as a small mind wouldnt, the extent of technology in this decade.

 

What proof do you have that Bush is dumb?

 

he still believes in the old work 9-5, be a hero, drink a beer addage. he works his belief in god into the laws that he passes, and so we are all living his belief system, which hey, you are free to have it, but dont impose it upon people who dont share your beliefs. just like you'd be pretty pissed if the pledge was revised to say under god, zeus, and hercules.

 

Dont mistake me as a bush supporter, I may come across as one in my rants against the democrats, but I am no republican.

[chadn]

chadn, what he's trying to say is that bush is so wrapped up in a faith system that denies the advancement of society. i dont know about you, but i want technology to improve. by contributing to companies that deal with oil power

 

I want all corporate welfare to end now.

 

 

he just doesnt understand, as a small mind wouldnt, the extent of technology in this decade.

 

What proof do you have that Bush is dumb?

 

he still believes in the old work 9-5, be a hero, drink a beer addage. he works his belief in god into the laws that he passes, and so we are all living his belief system, which hey, you are free to have it, but dont impose it upon people who dont share your beliefs. just like you'd be pretty pissed if the pledge was revised to say under god, zeus, and hercules.

 

Dont mistake me as a bush supporter, I may come across as one in my rants against the democrats, but I am no republican.

[chadn]

liberal, progressive

a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

 

I think protection of liberties is a good thing no?

 

The protection of civil liberties is not the main objective of liberals. Liberal in this nation describes a leftist stance in favor progress towards leftist philosophies and does not necessarily include the protection of civil liberties.

 

Only one party in this nation has made the preservation and advancement of personal rights and liberties their sole objective, its the Libertarians.

 

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

- Benjamin Franklin

 

This reminds me of the Patroit act.

 

Which passed, because liberal democrats cast their vote alonside the conservative republicans. For instance John Kerry voted for the patriot act, not only that hehelped write the damn thing. Does that sound like someone who's for the protection of our civil liberties.

[chadn]

liberal, progressive

a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

 

I think protection of liberties is a good thing no?

 

The protection of civil liberties is not the main objective of liberals. Liberal in this nation describes a leftist stance in favor progress towards leftist philosophies and does not necessarily include the protection of civil liberties.

 

Only one party in this nation has made the preservation and advancement of personal rights and liberties their sole objective, its the Libertarians.

 

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

- Benjamin Franklin

 

This reminds me of the Patroit act.

 

Which passed, because liberal democrats cast their vote alonside the conservative republicans. For instance John Kerry voted for the patriot act, not only that hehelped write the damn thing. Does that sound like someone who's for the protection of our civil liberties.

[Sayonara]

Dude, Im well informed on science and I still put those so called mystic beliefs before science. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are uninformed and ignorant. I find your above statement to be very uninformed and ignorant.

It's not important what _13eoWuLF__ thinks of Bush's beliefs.

 

What's important is that Bush has made decisions for your entire country - and even the world - based on his system of beliefs, rather than what is actually in the best interests of your society.

 

Call me a wacky liberal pinko, but I don't think being a religious figurehead is any part of the president's mandate. His responsibilities are to the welfare, advancement and defence of your society, and he should not be sneaking in personal mandates under the guise of religious conviction (or, more worringly, because of religious conviction).

 

This man is at the helm of one of the most powerful, resource-hungry and destructive nations on the planet. What does he do with this power? Try to amend the basis of your society so that people whose life style he doesn't agree with can't play with his (and in many cases, their) religion's toys. I'm sure you can see why this sort of thing from the politically elected (read: not divinely chosen) leader of a supernation makes people bitter.

[Sayonara]

Dude, Im well informed on science and I still put those so called mystic beliefs before science. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are uninformed and ignorant. I find your above statement to be very uninformed and ignorant.

It's not important what _13eoWuLF__ thinks of Bush's beliefs.

 

What's important is that Bush has made decisions for your entire country - and even the world - based on his system of beliefs, rather than what is actually in the best interests of your society.

 

Call me a wacky liberal pinko, but I don't think being a religious figurehead is any part of the president's mandate. His responsibilities are to the welfare, advancement and defence of your society, and he should not be sneaking in personal mandates under the guise of religious conviction (or, more worringly, because of religious conviction).

 

This man is at the helm of one of the most powerful, resource-hungry and destructive nations on the planet. What does he do with this power? Try to amend the basis of your society so that people whose life style he doesn't agree with can't play with his (and in many cases, their) religion's toys. I'm sure you can see why this sort of thing from the politically elected (read: not divinely chosen) leader of a supernation makes people bitter.

[Aardvark]

What's important is that Bush has made decisions for your entire country - and even the world - based on his system of beliefs' date=' rather than what is actually in the best interests of your society.[/quote']

 

Presumably every politician acts on the basis of his beliefs. No doubt he believes that his beliefs are in the best interests of society, otherwise he wouldn't believe them.