Tres Juicy Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 If you believe in the Big Bang theory then you must also accept the energy released was the living God. Rubbish! I could just as easily say "If you believe in the Big Bang theory then you must also accept the energy released was fairy dust."
Dovada Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Rubbish! I could just as easily say "If you believe in the Big Bang theory then you must also accept the energy released was fairy dust." What was it then? If not fairy dust
CaptainPanic Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 If you believe in the Big Bang theory then you must also accept the energy released was the living God. No. The Big Bang theory has as much credibility as the theory that God exists. It all came from nothing? No. I agree that we have no direct proof of the big bang itself. And we don't know what was before that, if anything. But we do know for certain that the universe expanded from a very small one into the one we have now. And that's a part of the big bang theory we can measure. We just don't know what caused it. So, if you would suggest that god caused the big bang, then that's as good as any other explanation. If you want to make up a story what happened before the big bang, and what caused it, then you are free to do so. As long as you realize that every other explanation is just as valid - and probably just as wrong. There is no way to be certain that time itself did not exist before the big bang. And there is also no way to say that there was a god.
Moontanman Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 What was it then? If not fairy dust The only honest answer is "at this time we do not know what caused the expansion of the universe, nor do we know where it came from". "God did it" is not a viable explanation anymore than "faeries did it" is a viable explanation... Science has done a pretty good job of explaining the universe, most of the gaps god was hidden in by believers have disappeared, are you honest enough to admit god doesn't exist if this gap is closed as well or will you push god into yet another and probably smaller gap? Must be uncomfortable for god, being pushed into those ever smaller gaps... 1
dimreepr Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 The only honest answer is "at this time we do not know what caused the expansion of the universe, nor do we know where it came from". "God did it" is not a viable explanation anymore than "faeries did it" is a viable explanation... Science has done a pretty good job of explaining the universe, most of the gaps god was hidden in by believers have disappeared, are you honest enough to admit god doesn't exist if this gap is closed as well or will you push god into yet another and probably smaller gap? Must be uncomfortable for god, being pushed into those ever smaller gaps... Good answer I wonder at what GEV does he show himself?
lahan Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 No one created the god. It's not an imagination. Just think, who created the hig's boson? Why every one has a DNA? Where did it come? No answer. We all are the creatures of god. The god has neither a beggining nor an end. Believe in god. Pray to him. He will help you -2
dimreepr Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 No one created the god. It's not an imagination. Just think, who created the hig's boson? Why every one has a DNA? Where did it come? No answer. We all are the creatures of god. The god has neither a beggining nor an end. Believe in god. Pray to him. He will help you What will he help me do? If he's not a human invention then why don't chimps go to church? 1
CaptainPanic Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 No one created the god. It's not an imagination. Just think, who created the hig's boson? Why every one has a DNA? Where did it come? No answer. We all are the creatures of god. The god has neither a beggining nor an end. Believe in god. Pray to him. He will help you Your definition of God is "the unknown". I actually agree with that it comes from the unknown - as in, "we don't know". But I strongly disagree giving "the unknown" a name, especially when the name has to be God... because calling it God suggests a whole lot more than that we're clueless about it. And I disagree with all the added bits.
11dees Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I'm stating my case in which 1) god created the physical laws 2) is not bound by these laws. some say this is immposible but a deity has infinte power (even not to be bound by scientific laws)
doG Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I'm stating my case in which 1) god created the physical laws 2) is not bound by these laws. some say this is immposible but a deity has infinte power (even not to be bound by scientific laws) You're not stating any case. You're making an unfounded, unsupportable claim. I might as well state my case that my Unicorn killed your god and stuffed it in a Leprechaun's pot. 2
galaxysponge Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 God has no beginning or end, he is eternal. He existed before time to create time and everything else. But will also be around after time ends. He is to big, and complex for our small little humanly brains to conceive. Which is why we must fear and love God. (in depth) In math terms God = beyond (-∞,∞) . God doesn't expect us to understand, for he has been here forever and will be forever. And whoever believes in him and his son will have eternal life with him in the heavens, which he created along time ago as sort of cool hangout for dead Christians who loved him and his son on earth, and wanted to be with him even closer. If God created the Universe,Who created God. And does God have a beginning or an end.
doG Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 God has no beginning or end, he is eternal. He existed before time to create time and everything else. But will also be around after time ends. He is to big, and complex for our small little humanly brains to conceive. Which is why we must fear and love God. (in depth) In math terms God = beyond (-∞,∞) . God doesn't expect us to understand, for he has been here forever and will be forever. And whoever believes in him and his son will have eternal life with him in the heavens, which he created along time ago as sort of cool hangout for dead Christians who loved him and his son on earth, and wanted to be with him even closer. Proof please. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence! 2
chilehed Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 If God created the Universe,Who created God. There's a fallacy of definition in the question. By definition, God is "that being which is uncreated".
iNow Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 There's a fallacy of definition in the question. By definition, God is "that being which is uncreated". Whose definition is that, exactly? Frankly, I've never seen god defined in a consistent way, have always considered the term little more than an ill-defined three letter word, and would welcome some clarity from you on this point. Whose agreed upon and shared definition paints god as "that which is uncreated." It sure doesn't sound like any definitions I've heard, but I'm open to correction. At first glance, I must admit that it sounds more like a cop-out, or little more than a convenient excuse not to address a logical question. If god created the universe, then who or what created god? It's turtles all the way down...
chilehed Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Whose definition is that, exactly? Frankly, I've never seen god defined in a consistent way, have always considered the term little more than an ill-defined three letter word, and would welcome some clarity from you on this point. Part of the problem is that our ability to define God is limited; it's a lot easier to say what he isn't than it is to say what he is. But there are things that we can know about him with certainty. "That being which is uncreated" has been recognized as an attribute of God at least since St. Thomas Acquinas in the 1200's, but all he did was put orderly expression to what had already existed in Greek philosophy and Jewish theology for at least 1500 years before he came along. It's absolutely standard Christian theology. St. Thomas is thick reading, but he's worth the effort. He gives me a headache worse than the one that I used to get when thinking about entropy. I've heard he's a lot easier to follow in the original Latin, but I can't read Latin. http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#14 Peter Kreeft, Professor of Philosophy at Georgetown, has an excellent set of lectures available on iTunes. He discusses the nature and existence of God in a number of them, and he's easier to listen to than St. Thomas is to read. But don't bother with either unless you really want to engage your brain. I know more than one person who quickly stopped for a reason that showed that they weren't really engaged... I guess they weren't as open minded as they claimed. 2
iNow Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Part of the problem is that our ability to define God is limited; it's a lot easier to say what he isn't than it is to say what he is. Not according to you. You responded to someone else's post... You attempted to render it moot, but stating the following: There's a fallacy of definition in the question. By definition, God is "that being which is uncreated". So, which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either god is very clearly and consistently defined and that definition renders the question "If god created the universe, then what created god?" entirely moot, or our ability to define god is limited and inconsistent as you've just said here. In the latter instance, that makes your rebuttal without merit and the question of "then what created god" remains valid and unanswered.
zorro Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 notan God is not finite, therefor God has always been and will always be. From beyond minus infinity to beyond plus infinity. God is beyond infinite and thus is every even beyond the Universes. http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/eternity.html
chilehed Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Not according to you. You responded to someone else's post... You attempted to render it moot, but stating the following: So, which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either god is very clearly and consistently defined and that definition renders the question "If god created the universe, then what created god?" entirely moot, or our ability to define god is limited and inconsistent as you've just said here. In the latter instance, that makes your rebuttal without merit and the question of "then what created god" remains valid and unanswered. You're being obtuse. There's no contradiction between "our ability to define God is limited" and "by definition God is uncreated", and for understanding to be limited does not imply that it's inconsistent. The fact that you can't know everything about a being, doesn't mean that you can't know anything about it. If you're really interested in learning, go study. If not, don't.
Moontanman Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I don't understand why it's necessarily to repeat this "God came from the imagination of Man" There is no proof of the existence of God as anything but imagination... deal with it.... the Flying Spaghetti Monster has spoken.... Cthulhu seconds the motion.... 1
iNow Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 If you're really interested in learning, go study. If not, don't. It strikes me as odd that you call me obtuse and then proceed to make such a lazy argument as this. Go study what, precisely? How do you have any clue about what I have and have not studied or learned already? What a lazy and ineffective approach to discussion. "Go study!" Yeah... You're convincing a lot of folks with rational, logical, well-articulated rhetoric like that, my friend. Keep up the good work!
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 I believe you were given an extensive set of references to study in post #40.
iNow Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 I believe you were given an extensive set of references to study in post #40. Why... Yes, of course. However, that's the debate equivalent of telling me to go read the encyclopedia. Perhaps our friend can be kind enough to at the very least cite the specific collection, book, chapter, and preferably page that he finds to to be most relevant support of his argument or rebuttal of mine. Surely, that's not too much to ask? Or, has the culture of this site changed so drastically that I`m out of line here, too?
chilehed Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Why... Yes, of course. However, that's the debate equivalent of telling me to go read the encyclopedia. Perhaps our friend can be kind enough to at the very least cite the specific collection, book, chapter, and preferably page that he finds to to be most relevant support of his argument or rebuttal of mine. Surely, that's not too much to ask? Or, has the culture of this site changed so drastically that I`m out of line here, too? If you had bothered to follow the link you'd have seen that it takes you directly to the relevant sections. Remember: deep questions have simple, easily digested wrong answers. One who insists on an answer brief enough to be adequately presented in an online forum merely shows that he's not really interested in understanding the topic. So study or remain ignorant. 1
Phi for All Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 You're being obtuse. So study or remain ignorant. ! Moderator Note Personal attacks are against the rules you agreed to when you joined. Always ask yourself if your argument is aimed at a person's ideas or at the person directly. Choose to attack the idea, not the person. 1
Moontanman Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 notan God is not finite, therefor God has always been and will always be. From beyond minus infinity to beyond plus infinity. God is beyond infinite and thus is every even beyond the Universes. http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/eternity.html Really? You are really going with what William Lane Craig said? The man who does nothing but repeat the same old tired horse feathers over and over as though by repetition his argument will somehow magically become valid? The man who offers no evidence what so ever other than his versions of other peoples totally unsupported claims? Really?
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