The power of God.

[njaohnt]

 

because they do deny eachother.

 

 

No they don't. Show me where.

 

Have you even tried to understand the distinction between accepting something based on available evidence and believing something based on faith?

 

If so, why do you keep equating the two?

 

Evidence from where?

 

1 They are supported by evidence and the bible isn't, indeed it contradicts itself. Have a look here

http://www.infidels....#contradictions

 

2 What else would they have done it for? You pointed out that it doesn't make much sense otherwise.

3 the way in which the horizon recedes as you get higher is different for a flat earth, rather than a round one.

You did the experiment- you just didn't know how to interpret it correctly.

I think that's a bit silly.

 

1. Evidence of science. It is impossible for the rules of science to of created the universe, because matter "came from" physics. Where did those physics come from.

 

Science is true, but it could not have come with out a god. If you believe that, you will easily see that God is the true god, and not any other.

 

2. Yes. Why are you saying that?

 

3.

 

See how it gets foggier as you go farther? That is because of the water in the air (and other particles in the air) make it that way. I see no evidence of this "receding". Again, I am not saying that the earth is flat, I am just saying that you have just as much (if not, less) evidence of the earth being round as evidence of the Bible being true.

 

Still waiting

 

No you're not.

 

Here we go again... It's a bit sad that I have to recycle this point so many times.

 

No, we should NOT respect everyone's beliefs. I don't respect people who believe that having sex with animals is okay. I don't respect people who believe that all women want to be raped. I don't respect people who believe that people with darker skin are inferior, and I don't respect people who believe that putting cats into microwaves is a fun way to spend a Saturday.

 

 

I don't think he means those beliefs.

[Dovada]

People have visions of fairies and leprechauns and giant monsters, too. In fact, this is very common in children and also the mentally ill. I don't think you'd suggest their visions make fairies or leprechauns or giant monsters real, though. You would almost certainly concede that they do not. Given this, why are you here now asking for a double standard to be applied to your holy spirit? Why are you here requesting that we treat your visions as equivalent to evidence? They're not. On balance, it's quite simply much more likely that you have a few screws loose and maybe were high. Just sayin'.

iNow: Just as you think God is not evidenced as real then to you Satan is not evidenced as real. The scripture tells us to test the spirits.

 

1John 3 verse 1: Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

Understand that visions are a form of guidance. A lecturer at university does not give so much evidence as he give guidance to his students. Asking just for evidence from the Holy Spirit is not how it works we are asked to test the guidance provided by the spirits.

 

When I said:

One vision in particular I remember when I was working with atomic structure was the image of myself looking in a mirror. It took a while to work that one out. Then it dawned on me in that the image in the mirror was identical to myself but not the same, everything was in reverse. This helped me to understand that what was happening in the heavens was also happening in reverse within the atomic structure.

I also noted this stated by Christ in John 14 verses 10-11:

10. "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

11. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

We have a mind where we can reason, so should we not use it wisely, Proverbs 2 verse 5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

 

You pointed out a website with contradictions found in the bible. Most contradictions are born out of misinterpretation.

 

For example Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

 

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

Typically a misinterpretation because Jesus is stating that the Holy Spirit (God) is within me. This is the same Spirit that gives life to all of us. But because they don't know the Holy Spirit they assume Jesus was just a man, or not understanding that Jesus was a Son of God, of which we all are.

 

See John chapter 10 verses 32-36:

32. Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?''

33. The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.''

34. Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, `I said, "You are gods'' '?

35. "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

36. "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I am the Son of God'?

 

We need to use a little more common sense when understanding scripture, it is not easy for God to give a proof to everybody, this is because everybody will think and read scripture differently depending on their personal education.

 

It is most helpful is someone (like Jesus) can help show the way. One thing has become clear to me, it is the Spirit that can be trusted to be the most reliable in Spiritual education confirmed by the written word of God.

[1=1]

Vision: For example during sleeping very vivid images showing for an example the planet earth moving along with and within a moving fluid. Plus many other related images. One vision in particular I remember when I was working with atomic structure was the image of myself looking in a mirror. It took a while to work that one out. Then it dawned on me in that the image in the mirror was identical to myself but not the same, everything was in reverse. This helped me to understand that what was happening in the heavens was also happening in reverse within the atomic structure. This was the most helpful of all visions.

 

Where did these visions come from? my imagination? or the living cosmos (God)? What conclusion would you have drawn if you had this same helpful insight?

 

That still isn't any evidence, you still can't prove anything. Anybody could say that. I want hard proof before I accept any of these claims.

 

It is evidence! Think about its history.

The Bible is said to have been found in scrolls near and in Isreal. There is no way that it has come from different scrolls all over the place, yet don't deny each other, if they weren't God-breathed, so they must have been…

The only arguments to that are.

1. They didn't find the scrolls, they made it up.

Would you write over 770 000 words just for the fun of making people believe false things?

2. They found the scrolls, but they changed it along the way.

Again, would you write out that many words, in hundreds of copies to trick someone, and for no other reason?

 

More evidence? The people translating, and copying the Bible were punished, and often killed. That's worth a trick?

 

Also, though the Bible's many copies almost all got burned, not all ever got burned. That's not God's protection?

 

Maybe you don't believe their history, but that is no better than believing these atheist scientists.

You say that they have evidence, but have you done their experiments? Why believe them? The Earth could be flat, I don't think it is, but I haven't done experiments to figure that out.

 

 

I would write 770 000 words if I was crazy, or if I wanted to make billions of dollars. Hell I would go start one right now if I didn't think i could commit my life to understanding the world instead. And the book burning thing, that is a complete fail of logic and a big assumption. It would be rather hard to burn all the copies of one book, especially one as widespread as the bible.

[Dovada]

No, we should NOT respect everyone's beliefs. I don't respect people who believe that having sex with animals is okay. I don't respect people who believe that all women want to be raped. I don't respect people who believe that people with darker skin are inferior, and I don't respect people who believe that putting cats into microwaves is a fun way to spend a Saturday.

 

Respect is earned, not entitled.

Why do you even bring such filth into this thread. This will not bring you any respect. We are intelligent human beings, let us act like it.

 

I don't think he means those beliefs.

Thank you njaohnt.

 

That still isn't any evidence, you still can't prove anything. Anybody could say that. I want hard proof before I accept any of these claims.

As I said before:

Understand that visions are a form of guidance. A lecturer at university does not give so much evidence as he give guidance to his students. Asking just for evidence from the Holy Spirit is not how it works we are asked to test the guidance provided by the spirits.

 

We need to use a little more common sense when understanding scripture, it is not easy for God to give a proof to everybody, this is because everybody will think and read scripture differently depending on their personal education.

The relationship anybody has with God is not unlike the relationship a man or woman has with his wife or husband.

There is absolute trust in that partner in that that they will do nothing to harm you because of the love you share. How many have said to their partner "Do you love me?" and when they say "Yes" do you say "Prove it". This type of disbelief can easily destroy any relationship that exists. Past experience with that partner should be all the proof you need.

 

How does one prove love? It is the same with God who is the source of love. When the Holy Spirit provides you personal knowledge and wisdom, along with it is a feeling of love.

 

1John 4 verses 7-8:

7. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

8. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

[immortal]

I do believe in what they say. They seem to make sense. Just like the Bible does. My answer was not to say that you shouldn't believe them, but why should you believe them, and not the Bible?

 

Science works on a set of self-evident assumptions, if you think whatever science says is wrong or false then you have to show the scientific community as to what is wrong in those assumptions and why our perceptions misguide us about the true nature of God if he is real and has a basis in our reality. No body has shown evidence against those assumptions and this is the reason why I believe in science.

 

I personally have a neutral position towards all religions, not only bible, all religions of the world. If Trinity(Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit) is real then it will be revealed through revelations and once I have revelations then I have access to knowledge which others don't have then I might do some noble deeds or even perform some miracles, I can even pass on that knowledge to others and now this is what real knowledge is, if a religion is real then it has to come up with real knowledge. Therefore neither I say that Jesus exists nor I say that he doesn't exists, I don't know. If you can pass on some kind of real knowledge to me then sure I'll believe in Bible and even in Trinity without that why should I have to believe in Bible blindly. This is what Einstein meant when he said "Religion without science is blind". If you are believing it blindly then you're deluded.

 

One more important thing, first take off that extremist view from your signature saying "All atheists and non-Christians will go to hell". God protects everyone, you can believe in anything, I don't have anything personal against you but I seriously condemn your view.

 

iNow: Just as you think God is not evidenced as real then to you Satan is not evidenced as real. The scripture tells us to test the spirits.

 

1John 3 verse 1: Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

Well this is what we are doing here, we are testing you, we are testing whether you have true spirit in you or not and so far you haven't given any credible evidence what so ever so why should we respect what you're saying, unfortunately this how religion works we cannot make a distinction between the person and his idea. I am sorry this is how religion works, I didn't mean to offend you.

 

 

Understand that visions are a form of guidance. A lecturer at university does not give so much evidence as he give guidance to his students. Asking just for evidence from the Holy Spirit is not how it works we are asked to test the guidance provided by the spirits.

 

You're wrong, that's exactly how it works, a lecturer gives knowledge of science and if science didn't had any evidence then all the parents in this world wouldn't have sent their children to schools where they teach science and its principles.

 

In the same way if one has to take you seriously and if we have to come to you to learn some knowledge we have to test you, if its real then you are passed, then I'll be your pupil but you can't get around here fooling us without giving any credible evidence. This is how Holy spirit works.

 

When I said:

 

I also noted this stated by Christ in John 14 verses 10-11:

10. "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

11. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

We have a mind where we can reason, so should we not use it wisely, Proverbs 2 verse 5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

 

That's exactly what we are doing, we are using it wisely so that we don't fall into pseudoscience.

 

 

We need to use a little more common sense when understanding scripture, it is not easy for God to give a proof to everybody, this is because everybody will think and read scripture differently depending on their personal education.

 

It is most helpful is someone (like Jesus) can help show the way. One thing has become clear to me, it is the Spirit that can be trusted to be the most reliable in Spiritual education confirmed by the written word of God.

 

We are looking for someone like him and we have not found anyone like him yet as far as my knowledge is concerned.

[Tres Juicy]

 

See how it gets foggier as you go farther? That is because of the water in the air (and other particles in the air) make it that way. I see no evidence of this "receding". Again, I am not saying that the earth is flat, I am just saying that you have just as much (if not, less) evidence of the earth being round as evidence of the Bible being true.

 

What?!

http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

 

 

Show me 1 piece of evidence that the bible is true

[Dovada]

Well this is what we are doing here, we are testing you, we are testing whether you have true spirit in you or not and so far you haven't given any credible evidence what so ever so why should we respect what you're saying, unfortunately this how religion works we cannot make a distinction between the person and his idea. I am sorry this is how religion works, I didn't mean to offend you.

Your post does not offend me in the least, it is one of the most sensible I have read.

It is difficult to provide direct evidence about existence of a God. Nevertheless what I have been unable to prove yet is the existence of an electromagnetic energy source that drives the cosmos.

 

Klaynos the moderator has referred to another thread I attempted to discuss aspects of the existence of this energy source where he said "you've already got a thread on your idea that "cosmic motion" effects atomic systems:". But before I was able to expand on what, and why, I perceived the currently held scientific viewpoint was inadequate, the thread was closed with strict instructions "Do not reintroduce this subject".

 

Even discussing this here, is risking the wrath of closure of this thread or even personally being banned from the forum.

 

Phi for All stated here:

But make no mistake, these theories can be overturned but only by a better explanation, and that's something you've been asked to show a myriad of times and never, never have.

But it takes time to provide any better explanation, which at the time in that closed thread I was attempting to do.

 

Here I stated to iNow:

Do you understand amplitude (stochastic) and frequency modulation. I said "This cosmic motion is both real and has a major impact on atomic structure and resonance". Resonance is included in the motion of particles within the atomic model.

The current scientific viewpoint does not include the more powerful underlying FM (frequency modulation) component being imposed on atomic structure which actually forms the resonance characteristics of all atomic structure. It is the electromagnetic properties of the cosmic motion that powers the physical atomic structure.

 

The amplitude or stochastic electron behavior is superimposed on top of the more powerful FM component. Because we move with electromagnetic field that causes this effect, we do not have the capacity to detect the electromagnetic field, except by the existence of physical inertia as atomic structure adjusts to the changed velocity component and the continual flow of the cosmic electromagnetic field into atomic matter as the atom is forced to be accelerated in a spiral cosmic path (gravity) with the electromagnetic energy being converted to a kinetic velocity direction change.

 

There are many other properties about atomic particles that can be explainable because of this cosmic electromagnetic field.

 

Because as I said before this electromagnetic field is not readily detectable it is thought to not exist by current scientific viewpoints and is exclude in current theories. This of course does mean gravity is electromagnetic in nature.

 

It is this cosmic electromagnetic field that forms the cosmic energy I refer to as the living God. An all pervasive fluid referred to as the Holy Spirit. The cosmic energy that powers the cosmos and everything in it.

 

If I am wrong only time will tell. In the meantime I know personally that God knows I am right and in the end science will submit to the will and knowledge of God. There will be someone who will develop an effective way of detecting and proving the existence of God an an electromagnetic field which we currently refer to as gravity.

 

Every time we separate the individual charges contained within the neutral atom, we reveal the living God, in that we reveal the cosmic electromagnetic field. Yes it is a very different concept to what is currently believed by scientists.

[1=1]

Why do you even bring such filth into this thread. This will not bring you any respect. We are intelligent human beings, let us act like it.

 

 

Thank you njaohnt.

 

 

As I said before:

 

The relationship anybody has with God is not unlike the relationship a man or woman has with his wife or husband.

There is absolute trust in that partner in that that they will do nothing to harm you because of the love you share. How many have said to their partner "Do you love me?" and when they say "Yes" do you say "Prove it". This type of disbelief can easily destroy any relationship that exists. Past experience with that partner should be all the proof you need.

 

How does one prove love? It is the same with God who is the source of love. When the Holy Spirit provides you personal knowledge and wisdom, along with it is a feeling of love.

 

1John 4 verses 7-8:

7. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

8. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

Still no hard evidence Dovada, which is what I am asking for.

[njaohnt]

Science works on a set of self-evident assumptions, if you think whatever science says is wrong or false then you have to show the scientific community as to what is wrong in those assumptions and why our perceptions misguide us about the true nature of God if he is real and has a basis in our reality. No body has shown evidence against those assumptions and this is the reason why I believe in science.

 

I personally have a neutral position towards all religions, not only bible, all religions of the world. If Trinity(Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit) is real then it will be revealed through revelations and once I have revelations then I have access to knowledge which others don't have then I might do some noble deeds or even perform some miracles, I can even pass on that knowledge to others and now this is what real knowledge is, if a religion is real then it has to come up with real knowledge. Therefore neither I say that Jesus exists nor I say that he doesn't exists, I don't know. If you can pass on some kind of real knowledge to me then sure I'll believe in Bible and even in Trinity without that why should I have to believe in Bible blindly. This is what Einstein meant when he said "Religion without science is blind". If you are believing it blindly then you're deluded.

 

One more important thing, first take off that extremist view from your signature saying "All atheists and non-Christians will go to hell". God protects everyone, you can believe in anything, I don't have anything personal against you but I seriously condemn your view.

I do think that God will be nice enough to save everyone, but if He doesn't I want to be on the Good side.

 

Still no hard evidence Dovada, which is what I am asking for.

And Evelution and the Big Bang have hard evidence?

[John Cuthber]

No they don't. Show me where.

 

 

 

Evidence from where?

 

 

 

1. Evidence of science. It is impossible for the rules of science to of created the universe, because matter "came from" physics. Where did those physics come from.

 

Science is true, but it could not have come with out a god. If you believe that, you will easily see that God is the true god, and not any other.

 

2. Yes. Why are you saying that?

 

3.

 

See how it gets foggier as you go farther? That is because of the water in the air (and other particles in the air) make it that way. I see no evidence of this "receding". Again, I am not saying that the earth is flat, I am just saying that you have just as much (if not, less) evidence of the earth being round as evidence of the Bible being true.

 

 

No you're not.

 

 

I don't think he means those beliefs.

 

 

OK, for a start I already showed you where. It's really helpful if you look at things.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#contradictions

 

This "Science is true, but it could not have come with out a god"is an un-evinced statement. It doesn't get close to counting as evidence.

Science can, perfectly easily be true without a God.

 

I said it because it answers your question.

 

Yes, I see it gets foggier as you look at stuff that's further away.

And that has nothing to do with the issues.

The fact is that you have chosen to show the view from a tall building because, unless you are high up, you can't usually see far enough for that fogging to be visible. You have just proved my point. You can see further from higher up. The way in which the horizon recedes as you go up is dependent on the curvature of the earth.

Have a look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon

So, by studying how far away you can see things ( of known heights) you can tell not only that the world is round, but how big it is.

As I said, you have done the experiment- but you didn't understand the answer.

Perhaps you have not spent enough time reading the right books.

 

I am still waiting for the paragraph that rebuts my view that it's silly to believe a book that claims to be the work of God, just because it says it is.

 

 

And, though the questions were not really directed to me.

Who gets to decide which beliefs are respected and which are not?

Re. "Evidence from where"

Anywhere.

You just need to realise that simply writing something down doesn't make it evidence. So the bible is not evidence any more than Lord of the rings is evidence of trolls, magic rings etc.

[njaohnt]

What?!

http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

 

 

Show me 1 piece of evidence that the bible is true

Round earth.

I have only seen the time zones.

Bible.

I showed tons of evidence in another post (maybe this the wrong topic, remember 770 000 words of the Bible? If not, tell me, I will show you the post)

 

OK, for a start I already showed you where. It's really helpful if you look at things.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#contradictions

 

All of those are possible. From MIRICLES, or not, they are possible. If you disagree show me one.

 

And, though the questions were not really directed to me.

Who gets to decide which beliefs are respected and which are not?

Re. "Evidence from where"

Anywhere.

Exactly. Later you say that just writing stuff down doesn't make it evidence. So where?

 

This "Science is true, but it could not have come with out a god"is an un-evinced statement. It doesn't get close to counting as evidence.

Science can, perfectly easily be true without a God.

Then where did these physics come from. You're not going to win. Only a god could have done it, and the only god who could be true is God.

 

Yes, I see it gets foggier as you look at stuff that's further away.

And that has nothing to do with the issues.

The fact is that you have chosen to show the view from a tall building because, unless you are high up, you can't usually see far enough for that fogging to be visible. You have just proved my point. You can see further from higher up. The way in which the horizon recedes as you go up is dependent on the curvature of the earth.

You can't see that far because of the fog. How can you see that the earth is round, if you can't see far enough to see it recede?

[Moontanman]

njaohnt this is how the earth was first shown to be a sphere, a man called Eratosthenes used the shadows made by sticks and math to calculate the circumference of the earth. This knowledge did not come from god it came from a man who was intelligent enough to ask questions about the world around him instead of blindly saying "god did it"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

 

He was the first person to calculate the circumference of the earth by using a measuring system using stades, or the length of stadiums during that time period (with remarkable accuracy). He was the first to calculate the tilt of the Earth's axis (also with remarkable accuracy). He may also have accurately calculated the distance from the earth to the sun and invented the leap day.[4] He also created a map of the world based on the available geographical knowledge of the era. In addition, Eratosthenes was the founder of scientific chronology; he endeavored to fix the dates of the chief literary and political events from the conquest of Troy.

 

BTW, that picture you posted clearly shows the curvature of the earth....

[Klaynos]

!

Moderator Note

njaohnt, please check out the modnotes I've made aimed at Dovoda. And let me reinforce the point that preaching is NOT acceptable. Repeating the same statement with no evidence (the bible is not evidence that itself is true) is preaching. This is not acceptable. One of the good things about science is you can review the observations of others by reading their publications. There are many open access journals around.

Please do not reply to this modnote.

[John Cuthber]

FFS there are hundreds of things in the bible that do not make sense.

Here's just one of the first mentioned on that web site.

 

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

 

So is God a God of peace or a God of war. He can't be both.

 

How about

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

 

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

 

Who was Joseph's father?

Was it Jacob or was it Heli?

Again, they can't both be correct.

 

That's not an issue of miracles- it's bollocks.

And those are just 2 of the first examples among hundreds.

How can you pretend the Bible doesn't contradict itself

 

 

Re. "Exactly. Later you say that just writing stuff down doesn't make it evidence. So where?"

From observation.

For example the observed way in which the horizon recedes as you get higher up shows that the earth is round, provided that you can understand the maths.

 

You plainly don't, or won't understand what an un-evinced statement is.

Saying "Only a god could have done it" is not evidence, never mind proof.

You need to explain why it could only have been a God.

 

"You can't see that far because of the fog. How can you see that the earth is round, if you can't see far enough to see it recede? "

How far is the horizon from ten feet up?

You can calculate that from the equations in WIKI.

Now, since in that picture you can clearly see further than that before the fog obscures things your argument is just plain wrong.

If you won't actually think about this sort of thing there's not a lot of point to you posting here.

Edited February 12, 2012 by John Cuthber

[Moontanman]

You can also easily see the curvature of the Earth by watching a ship sail over the horizon, it slowly disappears from sight, the bottom first them the super structure until only the tallest mast is visible, it doesn't just fade into the fog...

[iNow]

Here we go again... It's a bit sad that I have to recycle this point so many times.

 

No, we should NOT respect everyone's beliefs. I don't respect people who believe that having sex with animals is okay. I don't respect people who believe that all women want to be raped. I don't respect people who believe that people with darker skin are inferior, and I don't respect people who believe that putting cats into microwaves is a fun way to spend a Saturday.

I don't think he means those beliefs.

Of course. He only meant that we should respect HIS beliefs, but not those of others. Got it! Thanks for clearing things up for us.

 

 

---

 

No, we should NOT respect everyone's beliefs. I don't respect people who believe that having sex with animals is okay. I don't respect people who believe that all women want to be raped. I don't respect people who believe that people with darker skin are inferior, and I don't respect people who believe that putting cats into microwaves is a fun way to spend a Saturday.

 

Respect is earned, not entitled.

Why do you even bring such filth into this thread. This will not bring you any respect. We are intelligent human beings, let us act like it.

If all of the participants in this discussion were acting like intelligent human beings, they would quickly realize that the "filth" was intended to convey a basic point that could be quickly understood regardless of worldview. Let me say it another way since you didn't seem to grasp the central premise.

 

We do NOT accept or respect everyone's beliefs, nor should we. Beliefs are not worthy of respect just because they are important to a person, nor are any claims that people make true or valid merely because someone believes them to be. My comments were posted in response to your cries for us to respect other peoples beliefs. I demonstrated with some harsh examples that you do not, in fact, want us to do any such thing. As your response clearly indicates, EVEN YOU don't want us to respect the beliefs of others...

 

If you truly wanted us to respect the beliefs of others you'd be asking for us equally to the respect beliefs I noted in that post. You'd be here arguing that we should respect the belief that raping infants is the best way to end global warming, or that using a knife to inflict wounds on the genitals of the elderly is a good way to cure their Alzheimer's. Respecting those beliefs, however, would be ridiculous... and you know it.

 

You don't want people to respect the beliefs of others. You just want for YOUR personal beliefs to have a "get out of jail free" card against basic scrutiny and criticism. You don't want beliefs respected, you just want your personal stance to be shown deference. You want a double standard, one where we make dormant our critical thinking abilities and desire for evidence of veracity and truth of claims made by others.

 

Sorry, but no. You have earned no such thing. If you want your beliefs to be respected, then earn it. Don't demand it. It's easy... if your beliefs are worthy of any respect whatsoever or based on anything more than deluded visions and faith.

 

The funny part is that you agree with me that beliefs should not be respected, but you don't realize how hypocritical you're being by asking that we respect yours based on your "visions" or some anthology written by humans in a bronze-age desert.

[njaohnt]

If I cannot tell people what I think without getting a red Modnote, then I guess I'll have to leave. There is evidence, no matter what you say, so I guess there is just a thing against religious people. This is not where I want to be, then.

Edited February 12, 2012 by njaohnt

[iNow]

If I cannot tell people what I think without getting a red Modnote, then I guess I'll have to leave. There is evidence, no matter what you say, so I guess there is just a thing against religious people. This is not where I want to be, then.

You get the red modnotes because you say things like, "There is evidence, no matter what you say," and then fail to back it up or acknowledge criticisms and refutations of your point. You don't get the red modnotes for "telling people what you think" or because

"there is a thing against religious people."

 

There is, however, a thing against logical fallacies and unsupported assertions being put forth as truth. Unfortunately, religious claims tend to suffer from both pretty much all of the time.

[dimreepr]

If I cannot tell people what I think without getting a red Modnote, then I guess I'll have to leave. There is evidence, no matter what you say, so I guess there is just a thing against religious people. This is not where I want to be, then.

 

 

IF??? What makes you think you can tell, anybody, what to think? Coerce is perhaps the closest you could get. The arrogance of religions is, amusing at best, and can only lead to rejection. The reaction to this, for you, is to pick up your ball and say I’m not playing. Grow up...

 

 

[John Cuthber]

If I cannot tell people what I think without getting a red Modnote, then I guess I'll have to leave. There is evidence, no matter what you say, so I guess there is just a thing against religious people. This is not where I want to be, then.

There are a number of rules here.

If you break them then the mods point it out.

What did you expect?

That's what you signed up to.

Had you forgotten- or did you think the rule about "no preaching" didn't apply to you?

(On a related matter, what part off "do not reply to this modnote" did you not understand?

 

It's not a thing about religious people- there are plenty of them here.

It's a thing about the utter waste of time that arises when "believers" keep on stating their opinion as if it's a fact and don't (or won't) realise that no book is evidence.

It just degenerates into a childish argument "It Is!" "No it Isn't!" so it's sensible to ban it from the start.

Edited February 12, 2012 by John Cuthber

[iNow]

"In fact, far from telling believers to shut up, we WANT them to keep talking. Because that is how their ideas are exposed to light and – inevitably – laughter.

 

In the end, there is only one solution available to those who don’t want their beliefs to be laughed at: stop believing funny things."

 

-- "Mohammed Jones," pseudonym for the author of Jesus and Mo

[Temporocitor]

If god is all powerful than why doesn't he help these people,

 

Assuming one is married and has kids, do the parents solver all the problems of their children or do they let them solve them on their own for the most part?

 

As for me I'm hopelessly in debt to Jesus the Christ. As for astrophysics, we only have to apply Classic physics to the discoveries we see in prototplyds (ProtoPlanetaryDisks) to know that the planets contract and start life long before the star ignites. The power of God is as powerful as the predator primus would be. If His power is based upon the vacuum fluctuation, He is infinitely powerful. If His power is based upon the finite matter in all existence, then His power is limited by that quantity of mass. It doesn't matter. He's still unfathomablt more "everything" than we are.

[njaohnt]

Of course. He only meant that we should respect HIS beliefs, but not those of others. Got it! Thanks for clearing things up for us.

 

We are talking about religious beliefs, more so about creation of the world, those have nothing to do with religion.

 

Assuming one is married and has kids, do the parents solver all the problems of their children or do they let them solve them on their own for the most part?

 

As for me I'm hopelessly in debt to Jesus the Christ. As for astrophysics, we only have to apply Classic physics to the discoveries we see in prototplyds (ProtoPlanetaryDisks) to know that the planets contract and start life long before the star ignites. The power of God is as powerful as the predator primus would be. If His power is based upon the vacuum fluctuation, He is infinitely powerful. If His power is based upon the finite matter in all existence, then His power is limited by that quantity of mass. It doesn't matter. He's still unfathomablt more "everything" than we are.

 

Good post. I'm not sure how someone could press the minus. I pressed the plus.

[Moontanman]

We are talking about religious beliefs, more so about creation of the world, those have nothing to do with religion.

 

Please clarify this, you don't think the formation of the earth has anything to do with religion?

 

 

Good post. I'm not sure how someone could press the minus. I pressed the plus.

 

 

Maybe because you share the god delusion?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Moontanman

[njaohnt]

"In fact, far from telling believers to shut up, we WANT them to keep talking. Because that is how their ideas are exposed to light and – inevitably – laughter.

 

In the end, there is only one solution available to those who don't want their beliefs to be laughed at: stop believing funny things."

 

-- "Mohammed Jones," pseudonym for the author of Jesus and Mo

 

That is just what the Bible says is good. "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. " Matthew 5:10 NIV

 

So the more you keep laughing, the more of the kingdom of heaven I'll get.

 

It also says in verses 11, and 12 "¹¹ "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. ¹² Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."" NIV

 

There are a number of rules here.

If you break them then the mods point it out.

What did you expect?

That's what you signed up to.

Had you forgotten- or did you think the rule about "no preaching" didn't apply to you?

(On a related matter, what part off "do not reply to this modnote" did you not understand?

 

It's not a thing about religious people- there are plenty of them here.

It's a thing about the utter waste of time that arises when "believers" keep on stating their opinion as if it's a fact and don't (or won't) realise that no book is evidence.

It just degenerates into a childish argument "It Is!" "No it Isn't!" so it's sensible to ban it from the start.

 

I did put evidence. If I didn't then that was in another topic. Tell me if I did put it in another topic.

 

Please clarify this, you don't think the formation of the earth has anything to do with religion?

 

Yes, I do.

Edited February 12, 2012 by njaohnt