during a lightning can the water react forming hydrogen and oxygen?

[Philip]

I have a question:

I know hydrogen goes out of terrestrial gravitation

and I think that maybe oxygen is formed

from the water..........

but I don't know if the water reacts during

a lightning......................

[SubJunk]

i don't understand the question Philip

[jdurg]

He's wondering if when lightning strikes water, does the electricity split any of the water into hydrogen and oxygen molecules?

[Tesseract]

No it dosnt.

[Spaceman]

sorry yes it does

[Tesseract]

sorry yes it does

How so?

[5614]

it does:

Because it casuses electrolysis of water

 

it doesnt:

if it did we'd see it. also electrolysis you need two seperate electrodes and a closed circuit which means there is a 'circular' flow of electrons. with lightning there are a load of electrons travelling in one direction (depends on if the cloud is + or - charged). Remeber that it is a flow of electrons THROUGH water which causes electrolysis. Lightning is a flow of electrons up into the sky.

HOWEVER as the water gives up electrons it needs to gain them from the ground below. hence water acts as the ground. now there are electrons travelling from the ground through the water to the clouds.

 

So i re-ask the question... does lightning cause electrolysis of water (obviously if it strikes in water!)?????

[5614]

if you think of electrode 1 as the ligthning and electrode 2 as the ground then seemingly it would happen.

 

however lightning bolts last for a few milli-seconds so the amount produced (if at all) would be very insignificant and possibly even non-measureable.

[Gilded]

Doesn't lightning also fuse some O2 into O3?

[Philip]

I don't understand........

.....even if the circuit is not closed

there is an high potential difference so that

would can lightning split the water into hydrogen and oxygen?

[jdurg]

Doesn't lightning also fuse some O2 into O3?

 

Yes it does. When lightning occurs, nitrogen and oxygen are fused together forming nitrogen oxides, and oxygen forms ozone with itself. This leads to that funky smell you notice when there's a thunderstorm in the area, or when you're near a bunch of electrical equipment.

[5614]

yub yub jdurg... full marks in the nitrogren and oxygen cycle test!

 

there is an high potential difference so that

would can lightning split the water into hydrogen and oxygen?

potential difference (pd) and voltage has nothing to do with electrolysis. electrolysis happens when there is a flow of electrons aka current. whilst current normally (not always) causes a pd it is still the current and not the pd which makes electrolysis happen.

[jsatan]

@5614, the PD does sometimes come into play with other things, there is different voltages to create different compounds.

But you are fully right regarding the current.

 

And then a big spark sets it off, lol.

[5614]

the PD does sometimes come into play with other things, there is different voltages to create different compounds.

 

im not saying you are wrong, merely asking why?

 

here it is how i see it:

electrolysis happens when there is a flow of electrons. the electrons meet with the ions to form the compound.

if there are loads of elecrons then is x amount of yield at y rate etc

if there are few electrons then there is z amount of yield at q rate

 

it all depends on the numbers of electrons which are free do de-ionise the ions.

 

obviosuly (normally) more current = more pd... but even so, are you sure pd effects the compound and its not actually the current?

[jsatan]

The current effects the rate at which this happens like you say, I'm just adding to the info.

With some mixes of electrolyte, different compounds are made at the nodes.

 

I'll find some web info to show you what I mean, but the voltages jumps the ions to higher levels and so they create slightly different compounds,

 

e.g., xxo2 xxo3 xxo4 etc you get the idea, (this is not a real thing just example)

I'll be back.

[5614]

With some mixes of electrolyte, different compounds are made at the nodes.

 

are you sure? i know what you mean; lightning for example makes O2, O3 and can mix N2 and O2 to form N2O etc.

 

however this is all to do with the current and not the pd. current can cause pd, but it is still the current and flow of electrons which makes it happen.

[jsatan]

what I mean is say you have the voltage, at level 1, it makes one oxygen molecule on the node, if you increase the voltage to level 2, then it makes 2 molecule of oxygen on the node.

 

There are different levels for the atoms being used.

 

I'll find some web stuff to explain what I’m trying to say,

lol. Never comes out right.

just an example if you try copper plating with copper sulphate solution, you will get good results at low voltage, but if you crank up the voltage the o2 bond with the copper and makes copper cuprite (or what ever its called).

[5614]

thats only because there are more electrons flowing at once!

 

find the links!! -- i do understand what you are saying but think that it is cause by the current or number of electrons flowing at any one moment in time!

(and find a decent website, not some randomy one!)

[jsatan]

thats only because there are more electrons flowing at once!

 

Which is what the voltage is, lol.

thats all I was saying, I wasnt in any way saying the currect didnt effect it, I know it does, bigger the fast it goes.

 

 

I'll be back.

[5614]

pd: energy per unit charge

current: rate of flow of electrons

 

cause of electrolysis: number of electrons which can be used in the de-ionisation of the ions.

 

more electrons moving at once is the rate of flow of electrons (aka current). the current obviously effects the pd, however it is the number or rate of electons which makes electrolysis happen and not the energy per unit of charge.

 

as each electron is 'used' in the de-ionisation it is the number of electrons being made which is the key figure. the number being made or produced for the use of de-ionisation is the rate of flow or electrons which is the current.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_electrolysis

"The mass of a substance produced at an electrode during electrolysis is proportional to the number of moles of electrons transferred at that electrode"

 

but your saying that is right but different products from different pd.

 

i say if there are more or less number of electrons that is what will make the difference between x2 and x3

this amount of number or rate of number of electrons is the current!

[swansont]

potential difference (pd) and voltage has nothing to do with electrolysis. electrolysis happens when there is a flow of electrons aka current. whilst current normally (not always)[/i'] causes a pd it is still the current and not the pd which makes electrolysis happen.

 

While it's true you need a conductive medium, you can have as much current as you want, but if the potential difference is below the threshold for separation, you won't get any gas.

 

Put several ~1V batteries in parallel, and you won't see anything. Put them in series, and you get electrolysis.

[5614]

OK... understood.

 

so when doing electrolysis sometimes you can get x2 and sometimes x3. (like O2 or O3)

is this due to an in/de-crease in current or in pd?

[Philip]

yub yub jdurg... full marks in the nitrogren and oxygen cycle test!

 

 

potential difference (pd) and voltage has nothing to do with electrolysis. electrolysis happens when there is a flow of electrons aka current. whilst current normally (not always) causes a pd it is still the current and not the pd which makes electrolysis happen.

 

during ionization I think there is a flow of electrons aka current.

If it is then can the water be ionized and how the water is ionized?

[gt]

Is the majority of the earth's oxygen derived from plants taking in carbon dioxide and giving off oxygen or from lightning strikes on the oceans in which water is then broken into oxygen and hydrogen.

[StringJunky]

You've brought up an old thread but the answer to your question is that the great majority of the world's oxygen is produced by marine algae.