Flat Tax (National Sales Tax) Debate

[LucidDreamer]

Perhaps a luxury tax on top of a reasonable tax on excessive unearned income with a reduced flat tax might work. But that’s just another way of creating a graduated tax. Seems like that might encourage rich people to move to another country after they retire though.

[mattd]

I follow what you're saying. Then we shouldn't mess around with the income tax laws we already have?

[LucidDreamer]

I don't think the graduated income tax should be changed to a flat tax because it's just a way of making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Its not like we have become communist or anything. People have no problem becoming rich in America.

 

A national sales tax is just a way of sneaking more taxes in. We don't want to let the government solve their deficit by raising taxes on us. We should force them to reduce their spending instead.

 

So I say no flat income tax and no national sales tax.

[LucidDreamer]

I don't think the graduated income tax should be changed to a flat tax because it's just a way of making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Its not like we have become communist or anything. People have no problem becoming rich in America.

 

A national sales tax is just a way of sneaking more taxes in. We don't want to let the government solve their deficit by raising taxes on us. We should force them to reduce their spending instead.

 

So I say no flat income tax and no national sales tax.

[mattd]

If you caught the Frontline that was on tonight, it was all about Walmart and how they are steamrolling their competitors. An economics professor mentioned "creative destruction" and talked about about the concept briefly.

 

I thought it was very interesting.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

[mattd]

If you caught the Frontline that was on tonight, it was all about Walmart and how they are steamrolling their competitors. An economics professor mentioned "creative destruction" and talked about about the concept briefly.

 

I thought it was very interesting.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

[Douglas]

His feeling was that income (in regards to earned vs unearned) shouldn't be taxed. However' date=' he felt unearned income (capital gains, interest, and unordinary) should be taxed. [/quote']

Pension plans and social security are unearned income. Do you figure that should be taxed?

[Douglas]

His feeling was that income (in regards to earned vs unearned) shouldn't be taxed. However' date=' he felt unearned income (capital gains, interest, and unordinary) should be taxed. [/quote']

Pension plans and social security are unearned income. Do you figure that should be taxed?

[r1dermon]

wait...how is social security unearned?? please explain.

[r1dermon]

wait...how is social security unearned?? please explain.

[Ophiolite]

I know that in my country' date=' New Zealand, a large percentage of people on the benefit sit at home and sell drugs to schoolkids.

[/quote']SubJunk I know you are better than to fall prey to that stereotypical garbage. A large percentage - show me the data, please. I can play the steroypical game to - the drug lords are not sitting home on benefit, that's just the runners. The top guys are running nice little businesses to launder their drug money. And the reason the school kids are into the drugs is that their middle class parents (a large percentage of them) are to immersed in their work or their latest boob job to pay attention to their children.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I really think that line of yours was way beneath you.

Of course, if you can come up with that data I'll retract it all.

[Ophiolite]

I know that in my country' date=' New Zealand, a large percentage of people on the benefit sit at home and sell drugs to schoolkids.

[/quote']SubJunk I know you are better than to fall prey to that stereotypical garbage. A large percentage - show me the data, please. I can play the steroypical game to - the drug lords are not sitting home on benefit, that's just the runners. The top guys are running nice little businesses to launder their drug money. And the reason the school kids are into the drugs is that their middle class parents (a large percentage of them) are to immersed in their work or their latest boob job to pay attention to their children.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I really think that line of yours was way beneath you.

Of course, if you can come up with that data I'll retract it all.

[mattd]

Pension plans and social security are unearned income. Do you figure that should be taxed?

 

 

It's been earned, like he said. Pension plans are money you and your employer save up. I think any interest or capital gains should be taxed off of it.

 

Social Security is the same thing.

[mattd]

Pension plans and social security are unearned income. Do you figure that should be taxed?

 

 

It's been earned, like he said. Pension plans are money you and your employer save up. I think any interest or capital gains should be taxed off of it.

 

Social Security is the same thing.

[r1dermon]

social security is YOUR money, you paid into it since you got that first job at mcdonalds, therefore, its a direct result how how much money you earned, which is a direct result of how hard you worked. pentions arent the same thing in the sense that, you have paid into them with money. you dont get a deduction from your check that will go towards your pension. well, depending on the company. what happens is, companies say, you have to work here x amount of years to qualify for pension, and after you reach the minimum, you would recieve x dollars which would be in direct relation to how much you made over the years at that company. but most companies say that you qualify for pension after 25 years, and you'd recieve 1/3rd the salary that you did recieve when you worked, that would be a full pension. to qualify for a full pension they'd say you have to work 30 years, and if you retire after 25, then you'd only recieve partial pention. so really, the amount of years you put in is your payment toward pension. in most cases.

[r1dermon]

social security is YOUR money, you paid into it since you got that first job at mcdonalds, therefore, its a direct result how how much money you earned, which is a direct result of how hard you worked. pentions arent the same thing in the sense that, you have paid into them with money. you dont get a deduction from your check that will go towards your pension. well, depending on the company. what happens is, companies say, you have to work here x amount of years to qualify for pension, and after you reach the minimum, you would recieve x dollars which would be in direct relation to how much you made over the years at that company. but most companies say that you qualify for pension after 25 years, and you'd recieve 1/3rd the salary that you did recieve when you worked, that would be a full pension. to qualify for a full pension they'd say you have to work 30 years, and if you retire after 25, then you'd only recieve partial pention. so really, the amount of years you put in is your payment toward pension. in most cases.

[Aardvark]

His feeling was that income (in regards to earned vs unearned) shouldn't be taxed. However' date=' he felt unearned income (capital gains, interest, and unordinary) should be taxed.

[/quote']

 

Deciding the difference between earned and unearned money is very difficult in practice. Capital gains can arise through hard work, building up a business or renovating a property.

 

Also taxing interest and capital gains is a tax on investment and saving. Both activities to be encouraged rather than discouraged.

[Aardvark]

His feeling was that income (in regards to earned vs unearned) shouldn't be taxed. However' date=' he felt unearned income (capital gains, interest, and unordinary) should be taxed.

[/quote']

 

Deciding the difference between earned and unearned money is very difficult in practice. Capital gains can arise through hard work, building up a business or renovating a property.

 

Also taxing interest and capital gains is a tax on investment and saving. Both activities to be encouraged rather than discouraged.

[john5746]

I really dont get where your going with this appeal to peoples emotions. Are you agreeing or disagreeing? In case you sont understand and could use some clarification, essentials are exluded from the sales tax.[/b'] Medical care is an essential and would be tax extempt. So stop you blubbering.

 

Why don't you give some positive things you think this tax shift will do. It won't stop government spending, so what is the main benefit? Who gets most of the benefit?

 

I do agree that in general, people will spend less, or try to spend money in such a way as to avoid the tax. The wealthy, naturally, will be able to curb their spending more if they want. Then, you would see either higher sales taxes, or taxes on savings - as mentioned in previous posts.

[john5746]

I really dont get where your going with this appeal to peoples emotions. Are you agreeing or disagreeing? In case you sont understand and could use some clarification, essentials are exluded from the sales tax.[/b'] Medical care is an essential and would be tax extempt. So stop you blubbering.

 

Why don't you give some positive things you think this tax shift will do. It won't stop government spending, so what is the main benefit? Who gets most of the benefit?

 

I do agree that in general, people will spend less, or try to spend money in such a way as to avoid the tax. The wealthy, naturally, will be able to curb their spending more if they want. Then, you would see either higher sales taxes, or taxes on savings - as mentioned in previous posts.

[chadn]

Why don't you give some positive things you think this tax shift will do. It won't stop government spending, so what is the main benefit? Who gets most of the benefit?

 

It will eliminate the robbery of peoples income.

 

I do agree that in general, people will spend less, or try to spend money in such a way as to avoid the tax. The wealthy, naturally, will be able to curb their spending more if they want. Then, you would see either higher sales taxes, or taxes on savings - as mentioned in previous posts.

 

Or cuts in government spending.

 

To understand my stance you need to understand my political beliefs.

 

Im a Libertarian, that should give you some hints.

[chadn]

Why don't you give some positive things you think this tax shift will do. It won't stop government spending, so what is the main benefit? Who gets most of the benefit?

 

It will eliminate the robbery of peoples income.

 

I do agree that in general, people will spend less, or try to spend money in such a way as to avoid the tax. The wealthy, naturally, will be able to curb their spending more if they want. Then, you would see either higher sales taxes, or taxes on savings - as mentioned in previous posts.

 

Or cuts in government spending.

 

To understand my stance you need to understand my political beliefs.

 

Im a Libertarian, that should give you some hints.

[john5746]

Libertarians - aren't they the ones who get creamed every election? I agree with some of their issues. Of course I want lower taxes and less spending.

 

But I haven't seen any evidence that suggests lowering taxes will cut government spending. When Reagan and Bush did it, the thinking is that it will spurn the economy, which will increase tax revenue.

 

So, if your main idea is to reduce spending, I don't think this will do it.

[john5746]

Libertarians - aren't they the ones who get creamed every election? I agree with some of their issues. Of course I want lower taxes and less spending.

 

But I haven't seen any evidence that suggests lowering taxes will cut government spending. When Reagan and Bush did it, the thinking is that it will spurn the economy, which will increase tax revenue.

 

So, if your main idea is to reduce spending, I don't think this will do it.

[Douglas]

wait...how is social security unearned?? please explain.

Social security is 100% unearned income.

In a contributory pension, your contribution is not taxed upon the reciept of the pension. However, it's all unearned income. The same goes for a noncontributory plan.

 

Earned income is strictly wages/tips etc.