An idea I came up with

[ZombieUnicorn]

(Disclaimer: I couldn't think of any where to put this since I don't know which category it would go under)

I'm, by no means, any sort of scientist. I'm a 13 year old in 8th grade. But one thing I love about the universe is space. I really, really want to go out there some time and I figure I'll never live long enough or be fit enough to be an astronaut. And so, I came up with an idea. It's like a black box, but for humans. It records everything in your brain (memories, etc.) and stores them inside it. Then, once you die, they can put this "second brain" into a new body (robotic or other) and you pretty much be reanimated. This could mean time travel (waiting a long period of time before putting it into the second body) and immortality, almost. But I know there has to be a flaw of some sort in this plan. If there isn't, I'm surprised no one has invented this yet. Could anyone find the flaw in this plan? I know it has to be somewhere but I can't find it, and, as I said earlier, I'm not very educated in these things to figure it out myself.

 

Thank you for any help.

[StringJunky]

The sense of being 'you' and existing wouldn't be transferred to the new brain...it would just be a copy of you with it's own sense of self and existence. The potential to carry on your work in the way the original you did it still remains though. Does that make sense?

[Delta1212]

The sense of being 'you' and existing wouldn't be transferred to the new brain...it would just be a copy of you with it's own sense of self and existence. The potential to carry on your work in the way the original you did it still remains though. Does that make sense?

The more practical, as opposed to philosophical, flaw in the plan is our current inability to record all of that information that is processed by the brain with anything even approaching the necessary fidelity to create something that could reasonably be called a copy.

[Ben Banana]

Why not a green box? WHY!?

 

The sense of being 'you' and existing wouldn't be transferred to the new brain...it would just be a copy of you with it's own sense of self and existence. The potential to carry on your work in the way the original you did it still remains though. Does that make sense?

Arguable.

 

Hey, did you know there's some "rich" people out there who have their (dead) bodies frozen and preserved in a laboratory until Sir. Richard Jesus Dawkins The Second discovers the secret to immortality and makes us all live forever? Yay.

 

 

Me So Great

You may be intending to become a moderator by impressing the forum staff your superb skills, impressive vocabulary, witty sense of humor and ability to make derogatory comments to newbies. That's all fine and good, but do it quietly and don't annoy the rest of the forum members.

 

Not true.

 

But to be serious, I hope my humor here and there isn't destructive. Please PM me if you're bothered.

 

Now to be more receptive of the OP.

 

I'm surprised no one has invented this yet.

Please don't be surprised. What does "invent" mean? It tends to mean a resourceful creation, right? Well . . . I'm surprised no one has a better phrase to use when they vastly misjudge the requirements to obtain a certain level of technology.

 

1. Communication and showcase. Less Lady Gaga and more math nerds yields more chances of "invention."

2. The right direction of research.

3. Actual research and thought.

4. Economical implementation.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Ben Bowen

[ThorHammaraxx]

I'm, by no means, any sort of scientist. I'm a 13 year old in 8th grade.

Yes you are! You're a 13 year old in 8th grade scientist. Good on you.

It's a fantastic idea.

You could take it even further:

If you can digitise consciousness and put it in a machine, why not send it wirelessly from one machine to another? You could 'beam' it from one planet or moon to another and then into a suitable machine for that environment.

If you could turn it off and back on and then feel like only a second was missing, there's your pseudo time travel (forward at least). Imagine sending your machine to another galaxy and "waking up" when you get there. Wow! Bring it on!

If you would like to read more about what some other scientists have been 'working' on, I found a page on the wiki, "Mind Uploading" that you might find interesting: http://en.wikipedia..../Mind_uploading

Who know, perhaps we've been waiting for you to invent it.

good luck.

[Leader Bee]

Does anyone know what the average storage capacity of a human brain is? Is it even measured the typical way in Terrabytes / Yottabytes?

 

Somewhat relevent to the subject: Ghost in the Shell - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Ghost_in_the_Shell

 

"What exactly is the definition of 'human' in a society where a mind can be copied and the body replaced with a synthetic form?", "What exactly is the 'ghost' —the essence— in the cybernetic 'shell'?", "Where is the boundary between human and machine when the differences between the two become more philosophical than physical"

Edited March 5, 2012 by Leader Bee

[Joatmon]

Why not a green box? WHY!?

 

Because "black box" is the correct term. For example, the black box recorders in an aircraft are either orange or yellow with reflective sides! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box

 

 

[Ben Banana]

I've never heard of such a term. It sounds silly. Sorry.

 

Edit:

Regarding an implementation of this idea, the first area of interest could be connectomics.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Ben Bowen

[Joatmon]

I've never heard of such a term. It sounds silly. Sorry.

 

Edit:

Regarding an implementation of this idea, the first area of interest could be connectomics.

If its any consolation I had never heard of connectomics until today!

 

 

 

[Mrs Zeta]

I don't know if your posts are tongue-in-cheek but there is a serious (scientific) movement aiming to do this. The idea of Consciousness Uploading (or Mind Uploading, see wikipedia) has been around for several years, perhaps decades. And the idea of cloning a new young body from your own frozen stem cells etc and then downloading your consciousness to your new brain has also been around in scientific circles. It is a well known immortalist subject.

 

However, it will never happen. Or, if it happens, it will never be of any use to anybody because the digital uploading process lacks one simple notion, that of physical Movement. To be a healthy human is not just to have a functioning mind (consciousness) but it is also to be able to move and interact with your environment. Otherwise, you may just as well be a conscious paraplegic

[rktpro]

The sense of being 'you' and existing wouldn't be transferred to the new brain...it would just be a copy of you with it's own sense of self and existence. The potential to carry on your work in the way the original you did it still remains though. Does that make sense?

 

That would mean that humans are soul rather than a body. When someone dies, he dies with the feeling of himself dying. This also can mean that humans are not brain, something else which provides some sort of power to it.

[StringJunky]

That would mean that humans are soul rather than a body. When someone dies, he dies with the feeling of himself dying. This also can mean that humans are not brain, something else which provides some sort of power to it.

On reflection, I think you are right as far as what I said before and I therefore retract it forthwith. On the basis that we do not possess a soul and that we are actually the sum total of our memories embedded in our brains, I would have to conclude that we would be transferred if those memories were transferred in their entirety.

 

How's that for a 180 degree turn.

Edited March 6, 2012 by StringJunky

[rktpro]

How's that for a 180 degree turn.

 

Not fair.

 

On reflection, I think you are right as far as what I said before and I therefore retract it forthwith. On the basis that we do not possess a soul and that we are actually the sum total of our memories embedded in our brains, I would have to conclude that we would be transferred if those memories were transferred in their entirety.

 

The sense of being 'you' and existing wouldn't be transferred to the new brain...it would just be a copy of you with it's own sense of self and existence. The potential to carry on your work in the way the original you did it still remains though. Does that make sense?

 

How would you define that you were wrong earlier?

[StringJunky]

Not fair.

I know it is, but this is the correct kind of response from someone who aspires to follow the scientific method. You showed me a flaw in my logic and I corrected accordingly and immediately...no ego to support here. I've no wish to argue for the indefensible unless I'm playing Devil's Advocate which I'm not here.

 

How would you define that you were wrong earlier?

My initial position required a metaphysical explanation to support it ie a 'soul', that you rightly imo, pointed to which is counter to current biological ideas on what Life is. I support the idea that Life is an emergent property of a complex set(s) of molecules, so, what I said before was incongruous with conventional scientific ideas on this subject.

Edited March 6, 2012 by StringJunky

[rktpro]

I know it is, but this is the correct kind of response from someone who aspires to follow the scientific method. You showed me a flaw in my logic and I corrected accordingly and immediately...no ego to support here. I've no wish to argue for the indefensible unless I'm playing Devil's Advocate which I'm not here.

 

 

My initial position required a metaphysical explanation to support it ie a 'soul', that you rightly imo, pointed to which is counter to current biological ideas on what Life is. I support the idea that Life is an emergent property of a complex set(s) of molecules, so, what I said before was incongruous with conventional scientific ideas on this subject.

 

Okay. Now let us see it another way.

Assume you have a black box/green box as proposed by OP fitted into a human. Now what it will store? Memories/experiences. It is not living, we all know. The box doesn't have life. It is biologically nothing but a just matter with no molecular/biological metabolism going on. Now we fit it into another human, say I fit that in you. Now, you already have a sense of life and you feel yourself. If you eat, you feel you have eaten. Even if the memories are transferred, deleting your all existing memories, it will not delete the part which makes you feel that whatever work is being done is done by you. Even in those who don't remember anything and have a complete memory wash still feel that what is being done is done by them.

Hence, transferring memories in such a way would not mean that the person who has died will live again. What will live are his memories.

Edited March 7, 2012 by rktpro