Sending out visible signals

[Geode]

Whether a star goes nova or supernova is a function of the star's mass, but that's only part of the picture. A star goes nova because it's fusing 'ash' (helium, et al) and is doing so largely as a consequence of gravitational collapse. The rate of collapse is determined by the star's mass, which is why larger stars go nova and smaller ones don't, typically.

 

I'm grossly simplifying, but those are the basics.

 

To induce a star to nova, therefore, one would have to either provoke collapse or provoke rate of fusing. Preferably one should be accomplished in some synchronicity with the other.

 

To do this efficiently, or at all, one would have to:

 

Be able to affect the gravitational constant

The same, for the strong nuclear force

Have proven the aforementioned to be consequences of a unified field theory and possess the engineering necessary to manipulate space-time according to said theory

 

A species that powerful would probably find it unnecessary to blow up stars, unless they were also a species of malfeasant teenagers.

 

 

Geode

[Ophiolite]

For so many thousands of years humans have been signalling to Gods for solving their multitudes of problems and pains and for bettering their lots' date=' and now they add alien civilizations to their signalling targets.

[/quote']What is your evidence for declaring that we wish to contact aliens so that they will 'solve our problems'?

Do you acknowledge that there are other reasons why SETI is pursued? Or not?

Ask yourself what life you want/hope for, for yourself and for your family and for your group etc.,. How would a God or an alien civilization change/modify the existing earthly conditions that block your wishful targets as all the blocks are made and raised by us?

Locating an alien civilsation would directly satisfy one of my wants/hopes, which is to know more about the Universe, specifically whether we are alone or one of dozens/hundreds/millions of other civilisations. This desire arises from the innate curiosity of humankind.

Don't you agree that Eden could have been here and may be here if we humans do the job even without waiting for Gods or alien civilizations ?

Who said we are waiting? Many people around the planet are striving to improve conditions here and now and to advance man, not just materially, but spirtually and culturally. What makes you think it has to be an either or situation. Please answer this Dov, as I find your position on this perplexing.

And do we realy need ever more science and technology and and and etc., for the wishful life target ?

If it is applied with a mix of intellect and compassion then it will do much good. Do you think science is bad? You imply as much.

[Ophiolite]

For so many thousands of years humans have been signalling to Gods for solving their multitudes of problems and pains and for bettering their lots' date=' and now they add alien civilizations to their signalling targets.

[/quote']What is your evidence for declaring that we wish to contact aliens so that they will 'solve our problems'?

Do you acknowledge that there are other reasons why SETI is pursued? Or not?

Ask yourself what life you want/hope for, for yourself and for your family and for your group etc.,. How would a God or an alien civilization change/modify the existing earthly conditions that block your wishful targets as all the blocks are made and raised by us?

Locating an alien civilsation would directly satisfy one of my wants/hopes, which is to know more about the Universe, specifically whether we are alone or one of dozens/hundreds/millions of other civilisations. This desire arises from the innate curiosity of humankind.

Don't you agree that Eden could have been here and may be here if we humans do the job even without waiting for Gods or alien civilizations ?

Who said we are waiting? Many people around the planet are striving to improve conditions here and now and to advance man, not just materially, but spirtually and culturally. What makes you think it has to be an either or situation. Please answer this Dov, as I find your position on this perplexing.

And do we realy need ever more science and technology and and and etc., for the wishful life target ?

If it is applied with a mix of intellect and compassion then it will do much good. Do you think science is bad? You imply as much.

[Dov]

Dear Ophiolite,

 

For some the main purpose of life is to gain ever more understanding of the nature of the universe and of its constituents; they are exhilerated as their store of knowledge and insight grows, and more so if/when they personally contribute to this (talking from experience...).

 

For some the main purpose of life is to amass ever more capital for various uses and ends, by means including based on knowledge ( evolution of Western features from ancient greece to modern capitalism).

 

For some the main purpose of life is to go through it serenely, with or without knowledge-based comforts or problems' solutions. Some of these are not interested in understanding the universe and themselves, while others of these appreciate knowledge and follow up its world-wide accumulation but realize that it would not realistically impact what is most important for them namely go through life serenely.

[Dov]

Dear Ophiolite,

 

For some the main purpose of life is to gain ever more understanding of the nature of the universe and of its constituents; they are exhilerated as their store of knowledge and insight grows, and more so if/when they personally contribute to this (talking from experience...).

 

For some the main purpose of life is to amass ever more capital for various uses and ends, by means including based on knowledge ( evolution of Western features from ancient greece to modern capitalism).

 

For some the main purpose of life is to go through it serenely, with or without knowledge-based comforts or problems' solutions. Some of these are not interested in understanding the universe and themselves, while others of these appreciate knowledge and follow up its world-wide accumulation but realize that it would not realistically impact what is most important for them namely go through life serenely.

[Ophiolite]

Dov,

 

everything you have said in your last post makes good sense, but it seems at odds with your earlier posts where you appear to be 1) falsely identifying the motives for SETI and 2) condemning those who wish to pursue it, even though I would argue they are doing it for the motives set out in your first paragraph above.

Can you clarify that apparent contradiction?

 

Thanks

[Ophiolite]

Dov,

 

everything you have said in your last post makes good sense, but it seems at odds with your earlier posts where you appear to be 1) falsely identifying the motives for SETI and 2) condemning those who wish to pursue it, even though I would argue they are doing it for the motives set out in your first paragraph above.

Can you clarify that apparent contradiction?

 

Thanks

[Dov]

Ophiolite,

 

It was not my intent to identify the motives for SETI nor to condemn those who are involved in it or wish to pursue it. I know that my opinion re this subject is of no consequence.

 

I only express my sad reflection that Western "scientific/technological guilds" put so much weight on SETI, regarding it as a solid part of scientific/technological venture of humanity, while there is not yet a scientific understanding of the nature (not just the mechanism) of Life wherever it is in the universe.

 

After all for what purpose, if any, do we live? For posing and overcoming scientific/technological challenges or for going through life with least of all sorts of pains?

 

Some think that SETI projects might contribute more to our sense of well-lived life than active social support covenents, whereas others regard these projects at best as maybe tools for far future undefined circumstances and beneficiaries, diverting more desirable preoccupation and efforts in direct social matters.

[Dov]

Ophiolite,

 

It was not my intent to identify the motives for SETI nor to condemn those who are involved in it or wish to pursue it. I know that my opinion re this subject is of no consequence.

 

I only express my sad reflection that Western "scientific/technological guilds" put so much weight on SETI, regarding it as a solid part of scientific/technological venture of humanity, while there is not yet a scientific understanding of the nature (not just the mechanism) of Life wherever it is in the universe.

 

After all for what purpose, if any, do we live? For posing and overcoming scientific/technological challenges or for going through life with least of all sorts of pains?

 

Some think that SETI projects might contribute more to our sense of well-lived life than active social support covenents, whereas others regard these projects at best as maybe tools for far future undefined circumstances and beneficiaries, diverting more desirable preoccupation and efforts in direct social matters.

[Ophiolite]

It was not my intent to identify the motives for SETI nor to condemn those who are involved in it or wish to pursue it. I know that my opinion re this subject is of no consequence.

Excuse me! Please stop wriggling out of the debate by changing your position and pretending you are not. You stated in your first post on this thread' date=' that

And would'nt mankind be wiser and doubtlessly more efficient to expend effort on improving life on Earth and developing more knowledge rather than expend resources on senseless/plain stupid alien civilization lotteries ?

If that is not an attack on the motivation for SETI please explain what it is!

[Ophiolite]

It was not my intent to identify the motives for SETI nor to condemn those who are involved in it or wish to pursue it. I know that my opinion re this subject is of no consequence.

Excuse me! Please stop wriggling out of the debate by changing your position and pretending you are not. You stated in your first post on this thread' date=' that

And would'nt mankind be wiser and doubtlessly more efficient to expend effort on improving life on Earth and developing more knowledge rather than expend resources on senseless/plain stupid alien civilization lotteries ?

If that is not an attack on the motivation for SETI please explain what it is!

[Ophiolite]

I only express my sad reflection that Western "scientific/technological guilds" put so much weight on SETI, regarding it as a solid part of scientific/technological venture of humanity, while there is not yet a scientific understanding of the nature (not just the mechanism) of Life wherever it is in the universe.

I do not have figures to hand for the annual expenditure on SETI, but it is certainly a very small, a vanishingly small percentage of total scientific expenditure and a small fraction of the amount spent on dog food in France. I therefore question, most rigorously, your suggestion that science places great 'weight on SETI'. It doesn't. It's a side show - one I personally find fascinating, but a side show none the less.

And you say you regret this because science has not yet reached an understanding of life. That strikes me as singularily illogical. What other event could give us a greater understanding of Life than the opportunity to converse with other intelligent life forms?

[Ophiolite]

I only express my sad reflection that Western "scientific/technological guilds" put so much weight on SETI, regarding it as a solid part of scientific/technological venture of humanity, while there is not yet a scientific understanding of the nature (not just the mechanism) of Life wherever it is in the universe.

I do not have figures to hand for the annual expenditure on SETI, but it is certainly a very small, a vanishingly small percentage of total scientific expenditure and a small fraction of the amount spent on dog food in France. I therefore question, most rigorously, your suggestion that science places great 'weight on SETI'. It doesn't. It's a side show - one I personally find fascinating, but a side show none the less.

And you say you regret this because science has not yet reached an understanding of life. That strikes me as singularily illogical. What other event could give us a greater understanding of Life than the opportunity to converse with other intelligent life forms?

[us.2u]

I believe science & advancement in life is absolutely essential otherwise I don't think we would've advanced much more than primates or caveman & still be living in the 3rd world; to not have insight to improve & advance to me seems extremely tunnel visioned. One might say yes but monies can be spent on other things...but just for one example if the science of the motorised world had never been invented we would probably all be starving! So I am a great believer in modern science & I feel to explore new avenues including space is in the interest of survival of us all & as Ophiolite says really as each day of our science & future science is explored I believe we are all contributing towards an understanding of life

[5614]

here's a video:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/

which increases or decreases (depending on what you tell it to do) by a power of 10 each time... it is a good guide as to quite how small we are and why it'd be so hard and effectively impossible for us to do what this thread is about.