Particle Accelerator - Help Required

[briddell]

Greetings! I am not new to this forum, but forgot both my username and password because I had not been on in 1.5 years roughly. Aside from that point, my title states that I require assistance in building a particle accelerator or atom smasher. I was inspired by Michio Kaku after reading his book, Physics of the Impossible, and going to see him speak. He was able to able to construct a Betatron accelerator from electrical steel (Transformer Steel) and copper wire (of course other things were used, but it was his lack of funding that impressed me). He used 22 miles of copper wire, at what I am assuming is 30 gauge, at least, wire. It was wound into a power supply and used for powering his superconducting magnets (I assume, once more). It achieved great results, eventually getting him a scholarship to Harvard. As a young student myself (He did it in high school), I am looking to build one to enter in both the Google Science fair and for personal scientific curiosity. The fact that I am in 8th grade makes some people doubtful of my dedication, but I assure you I am fully dedicated to the project and will wane my intensity at no cost.

 

Now, to business. I have found a wire provider to get the copper wire. I realize the enormous cost at buying 22 miles of 30-gauge wire, which leads to my first question. To make a generator this size, does the wire have to be continual, or can I splice, solder, or otherwise join multiple segments? I assume that continual would be prime, but at the cost it is now, it may impractical to purchase that amount at once.

 

To make the atoms form an string one atom thick, the magnets are used. These superconducting magnets will, ultimately, produce a 10,000 Gauss magnetic field around the accelerator tube to make the atoms align. My second and third questions are: What exactly qualifies a magnet to be superconducting, and how do I make a magnet into a superconducting magnet? The magnets, I realize, are an essential part to the functionality of an atom smasher.

 

Obviously, the 22 miles of wire will produce a massive power output. From the Michio Kaku's book, it says that his produced 2.3 Million Electron Volts. Now, I understand how to make a small, hand-cranked generator with magnets and wire, but How will I create a generator this large, and how do I make it so I do not kill myself, or destroy the power grid of the eastern sea board when it is powered up? Both of these results would be bad, but I am more concerned about my personal welfare.

 

In both a Betatron and a Cyclotron, the tube is circular, not linear. In all research I have done so far, it shows the tube as Glass. My fifth and sixth questions are: What material should be used for the tube, and what should the diameter be? The tube in which the acceleration occurs will be vital to the success of this project.

 

Conclusively, after completing research, I have deduced that despite the ubiquity of information, nobody takes science seriously on Youtube, on most websites, or online in general. I have found naught but comical approaches to particle accelerators (as in giving the most vague and unhelpful steps possible). My only hope was either to : A. Ask Michio Kaku himself to give me diagrams, etc. (Highly Impossible and impractical) or B. To have one of most potent concentrations of intelligence in science, physics, and mathematics on the Internet give me help. I chose the latter in hopes of getting useful advice and help with this momentous attempt at a highly dangerous and rewarding project. Thank you for the help that you can provide. Currently, any thing that I can get, I will accept. Farewell, and thank you for reading.

 

"Finally, it was ready. It was my proudest achievement, this 400 pound, 6 kw, 10,000 gauss magnetic field in a 2.3 million volt electronic accelerator." - Michio Kaku

 

-Briddell

Edited February 25, 2012 by briddell

[John Cuthber]

I think you need to do a lot more basic research.

[briddell]

I started this project 2 days ago, so I have not completed much research yet. I have been looking all over for a viable website, but no websites (so far) have any useful information regarding the magnets, generator, tubes, etc. The only information I have been able to find is regarding stuff that is not relevant to an atom smasher. I will continue basic research, finding the Laws and other expressions that pertain to the acceleration, destruction, and over all "atom smashing" of this project. Thank you, I realize how little I know compared to what I need to know.

 

-Briddell

[ydoaPs]

From your other thread, I'd say you need to learn A LOT more before you can attempt this safely.

[mississippichem]

Try and learn some of the fundamental physics before you attempt any engineering with that physics.

 

Not to discourage you. More young people need to be excited about science like you seem to be.

Edited February 26, 2012 by mississippichem

[Phi for All]

Hey, I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm either, but besides needing more knowledge, how practical is this project? What are your resources? That much wire is going to run several hundred dollars by itself.

 

You quoted part of that one interview with Prof. Kaku, so you know he sort of blows off the difficulty of obtaining all the supplies:

 

So, I went to my mom one day and I said, "Mom, can I have permission to build a 2.3 million volt atom smasher betatronic accelerator in my garage?" And she kind of stared at me and said, "An atom smasher in the garage? I mean, sure. Why not? And don't forget to take out the garbage." So, I took out the garbage and I went to Westinghouse and I got 400 pounds of transformer steel, 22 miles of copper wire [emphasis mine], and we wound a 6 kilowatt, 10,000 gauss magnetic field on the high school football field. I put 22 pounds of copper wire on the goal post, gave the wire to my mother. My mother ran to the 50-yard line, gave the wire to my father and he ran to the goal post, and we wound 22 miles of copper wire on the high school football field.

[Schrödinger's hat]

I think, perhaps, you should start with some low voltage stuff and learn about electronics. Build/design a few radios and such first.

If you need a step-by-step guide, then I'd be concerned about your safety working with high voltage.

Once you do that, try and get access to an academic library. Some university libraries have public access for a fee, or you may be able to befriend someone at a local university (or even just wander into the library and read stuff there, there's often no entry restriction but your age may raise suspicion). You should find scientific and engineering books or journals on related subjects.

[briddell]

I have much experience with electronics. I have been building circuits for 5 years. I know the dangers of electricity, and how to solder, the uses of components, etc. I want to step it up from 5v, to 2300 Kv! thank you for your concern, though.

 

I think, perhaps, you should start with some low voltage stuff and learn about electronics. Build/design a few radios and such first.

If you need a step-by-step guide, then I'd be concerned about your safety working with high voltage.

Once you do that, try and get access to an academic library. Some university libraries have public access for a fee, or you may be able to befriend someone at a local university (or even just wander into the library and read stuff there, there's often no entry restriction but your age may raise suspicion). You should find scientific and engineering books or journals on related subjects.

 

Thank you! I will do that. I know the perfect place to go to do some research like this.

 

 

-Briddell

[ydoaPs]

I have much experience with electronics. I have been building circuits for 5 years.

 

Low voltage circuits and particle accelerators are very different beasts. If you don't know what you're doing, you could easily kill yourself.

[briddell]

Low voltage circuits and particle accelerators are very different beasts. If you don't know what you're doing, you could easily kill yourself.

 

 

I will not run it until I can guarantee its safety. My grandfather works for Toyata as one of the worldleading experts in Robotics and Resistance Welding. I will use his knowledge, as well as my ex-electrician father's. to make it so I do not kill myself. I appreciate your concern, and I realize the dangers. However, I will not be throwing this together within a few months; I hope to complete it in just over a year: in time for the Google Science fair. If not then, then even longer. Thank you, but I realize how esotreric, complex, and dangerous this will be. I will test its safety before any full scale runs.

 

I will be finding all Laws associated with acceleration/atom smashing and apply them to this project so that it is functional and safe. I appreciate everyone's concern with my safety, but I am not going to charge blindly into this. Thank you! I realize how little that I know...

 

-Briddell

[ydoaPs]

I will be finding all Laws associated with acceleration/atom smashing and apply them to this project so that it is functional and safe. I appreciate everyone's concern with my safety, but I am not going to charge blindly into this. Thank you! I realize how little that I know...

 

-Briddell

 

In your other thread, you've indicated that you don't know the underlying mathematics or physics involved. It's not a realistic amount of things to learn over a summer as you're in geometry now. You should put this on the backburner (even disregarding safety concerns) until you've learned multivariable tensor calculus and some physics. I mean, without the physics background, the accelerator is useless. You can smash protons into a target, but you'll have no idea what you're looking at unless you know the physics.

[Xittenn]

To make the atoms form an string one atom thick, the magnets are used. These superconducting magnets will, ultimately, produce a 10,000 Gauss magnetic field around the accelerator tube to make the atoms align. My second and third questions are: What exactly qualifies a magnet to be superconducting, and how do I make a magnet into a superconducting magnet? The magnets, I realize, are an essential part to the functionality of an atom smasher.

 

YBCO & Meissner Effect are good initial search parameters.

 

 

Obviously, the 22 miles of wire will produce a massive power output. From the Michio Kaku's book, it says that his produced 2.3 Million Electron Volts. Now, I understand how to make a small, hand-cranked generator with magnets and wire, but How will I create a generator this large, and how do I make it so I do not kill myself, or destroy the power grid of the eastern sea board when it is powered up? Both of these results would be bad, but I am more concerned about my personal welfare.

 

1) steeling wire from telephone poles is not a nice thing to do FYI!

 

2) 2.3 Million Electron Volts in Joules;in volts.

 

3) If you were honestly concerned about your own welfare you would start with something more practical like an oscilioscope

 

 

In both a Betatron and a Cyclotron, the tube is circular, not linear. In all research I have done so far, it shows the tube as Glass. My fifth and sixth questions are: What material should be used for the tube, and what should the diameter be? The tube in which the acceleration occurs will be vital to the success of this project.

 

Before you build something like this you should have a working model. I recommend CATIA to complete the drafting process--if you can afford it, which I'm sure you can because you are building an atom smasher.

 

 

"Finally, it was ready. It was my proudest achievement, this 400 pound, 6 kw, 10,000 gauss magnetic field in a 2.3 million volt electronic accelerator." - Michio Kaku

 

-Briddell

 

2.3 million volt electronic accelerator <==== big difference

 

6kW can be generated by a gas powered generator; rent one cheap, and step it up.

 

I suggest learning at the bare minimum how forces relate to magnetism before you even consider spending 50 cents. Buy a book, they hurt more than your project but it is the good kind of hurt, unlike the hurt that comes from running around a football field all day.

 

Ever see the fly??

 

Here get ahead of yourself Physics for Scientists & Engineers, Vol. 1 & 2 4th Edition by Douglas C. Giancoli

 

**vol 2 relates more to E & M

[DrRocket]

. I was inspired by Michio Kaku after reading his book, Physics of the Impossible,

 

Kaku is not quite so adept with physics of the possible.

 

You are in over your head. Pick something simpler.

[PerpetuallyConfused]

I think its a great idea to get involved in projects like this - given how many people seem to think this is not going anywhere, I'd urge you instead to shift the focus of your project slightly. Instead of doing what this guy did to do exactly the same, why don't use scientific method, documentation and records to chart the process of building an atom smasher. Document everything you need to know, everything you need to purchase, everything that has to be done. Then, as a summary conclusion you can give a judgement on how realistic it is for the average guy to build such a thing given current prices, availability of materials, the kinds of accuracy that is possible with self built equipment and what new physics could be revealed (or corroborated) using your equipment.

 

As a good scientific process, or just as a checklist, if you can do that FIRST you'll probably garner a lot more support from the people here. Thats what I would do anyway!