JrPahoodneyMan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Thing is, if the dome part of the UFO has two layers, one outer layer being glass, and the other being an unknown element, trapping ozone gas between them would allow a vehicle to "glow." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Externet Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) When it 'first' hit the fan, it was 1941. But the fan and the room and the entire matter that hit the fan was contained within that room.http://www.seekingmoinfo.com/LeonardHStringfield.htmlAfter analysis of that 'first' recovery, this document was written :http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/oppenheimer_einstein.pdf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not videos, but here is dozens of simple documents like this : http://roswellproof.homestead.com/files/ROSDEBRI.DOC Andmuch better ones too. So abundant in hundreds of web sites, thatinterest is lost in following or reading them start to end. Edited February 23, 2013 by Externet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) No Sam, you assume that UFOs have to be explainable in terrestrial terms, you think any answer is more likely than aliens no matter silly the answer is. The chances of them being aliens are one in an unimaginably large number, that's it. Any other terrestrial explanation is possible, even meteors or natural astronomical phenomena. A meteor hitting Earth has a greater chance that life forming in the first place. I have no problem with aliens existing as the universe may be infinitely large anyway, however there is not enough evidence to say they have visited Earth. I like the video, it's put together and narrated well and a long time ago before I ran across many possible explanations I might have believed it, but some mystery objects in the sky that we over time one by one reveal to in no way be alien-made objects isn't going to cut it. If no answer makes sense despite the data then you say it's unknown, you don't desperately try to pound a square peg into a round hole because you can't let your self believe in round pegs... Except they do make sense, you just don't want to accept that. You think that just because it's possible for aliens to exist means we must rule out all other possible explanations. I watched that video, the first point, the first video clip with the pilot seeing metallic disks looks like it could have been birds, but considering the speeds you would be surprised what type of experimental aerial technology was being worked on all over the world. As it turns out. In the time of world wars, experimental technology got a large boost, and even now it's more open to ideas than ever if you just look at all the new patented designs for tools they have. There are possible tricks of the lens, http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/09/ufo-or-lens-flare-in-google-street-view-you-decide/ It's also possible for shapes to reflect their relatively exact shape onto a surface and in different warped views. If you just play around with your ipod or iphone in sunlight, there's certain angles where you can make a nearly perfect rectangle, and other angles it can be warped. "How could a wingless object fly?" Thrusters. Technology that is still being experimented with today, especially if you look at rockets. It would be much more efficient to not have wings because then you can just have a smooth object that flows through the air at high speeds, where-as normally wings would increase the surface area and may cause problems, and now they are even doing it with plasma, http://gizmodo.com/346937/plasma-thruster-powered-cigarette-sized-unmanned-aerial-vehicles-to-take-to-the-skies You should also consider that even if a military base isn't carrying out some sinister experiment, it legally has to do it's best to keep a lot of it's secrets or people in it could face charges of treason, unless of course they are told to address it and provide information such as with drones, treason can get you executed, or at least it could in the 20th century. So they didn't care that their technology like this http://articles.latimes.com/1990-02-27/business/fi-1420_1_stealth-blimp is mistaken for UFOs. http://www.thestealthblimp.com/ Flying disks could have at last at some point have been experimental military technology, the military and air force of multiple countries would have obviously been looking for stealthy or fast ways to deliver bombs, possible without personnel. I will admit that though clouds and pelicans could not have traveled at such high speeds. Edited February 23, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Sam your "explanations" do hot hold water, they cannot be used to explain the really inexplicable cases, yes they explain the vast majority but not all. As i said before, ridicule does nothing to explain what is going on. there are no supersonic pelicans, no slow meteorites, and there are sightings that are simply inexplicable and not because of lack of data. Radar returns off physical objects that are viewed by multiple sources cannot be explained away by the things you assert. Did you bother to read the Iranian sighting? it was seen by a covert top secrete military surveillance satellite, something real is going on, I cannot yet assert what it is for sure but it deserves real investigation not ridicule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Sam your "explanations" do hot hold water, they cannot be used to explain the really inexplicable cases, yes they explain the vast majority but not all. As i said before, ridicule does nothing to explain what is going on. there are no supersonic pelicans, no slow meteorites, and there are sightings that are simply inexplicable and not because of lack of data. Radar returns off physical objects that are viewed by multiple sources cannot be explained away by the things you assert. Did you bother to read the Iranian sighting? it was seen by a covert top secrete military surveillance satellite, something real is going on, I cannot yet assert what it is for sure but it deserves real investigation not ridicule... They are not explicable with publicly accessible knowledge. We gradually rule out that things were alien made objects using new scientific data or leaks of experimental military technology, there's plenty of room for experimental military technology, and it often takes time for a scientific patent to be made, reviewed, then brought to the attention of the public if the media wants to do that, like ball lightning which was not brought up much in the scientific world until the 20th and 21st century. If it's explainable, it doesn't mean we have to assume it's any particular thing, but looking at the chances of life forming and then seeing that we ourselves don't have that technology after all this time, means it isn't very likely we are going to encounter alien life. Edited February 23, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Sam, what was the object that was sighted in the Coyne helicopter case? what was it that hovered over the helicopter for several minutes and shown a green light into the cock pit, what was it that was seen by witnesses on the ground near the helicopter? what was it that caused the helicopter to gain altitude when it was in a dive? Philip J. Klass, the most famous UFO debunker said it was a slow moving meteor, do you think that's a reasonable explanation it was the best they had but was it reasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Sam, what was the object that was sighted in the Coyne helicopter case? what was it that hovered over the helicopter for several minutes and shown a green light into the cock pit, what was it that was seen by witnesses on the ground near the helicopter? what was it that caused the helicopter to gain altitude when it was in a dive? Philip J. Klass, the most famous UFO debunker said it was a slow moving meteor, do you think that's a reasonable explanation it was the best they had but was it reasonable? I think it's more reasonable to suggest experimental military technology which at the time would have gotten someone thrown in prison for 20 years or more or executed if they told anyone about it because of all the paranoia going on with other countries being able to bomb the US with new technology, also wasn't it a plane, not a helicopter? The military really really is looking into a wide variety of creative technology and so are universalities, they have self healing gasoline transporters, rail-guns and plasma weapons and drones and stealth bombers and probably some experimental technology that is highly maneuverable, what air force wouldn't want that? Even the Germans tried making some hovering mercury balls. Also, why does most of this stuff take place in the US? How come I don't hear of rural UFO sightings in rural Africa or Israel or China or India which are very densely populated, even though there are people there and people who get media attention and even write books? I think mass media in the US has something to do with over exaggerating some aspects of the whole UFO case as well, leading some people to even try and fake it for attention. It does not seem to be a coincidence that it seems to happen the most in the US compared to every other country when we have all sorts of mass media in the US and one of the most powerful militaries in the world that experiments with all sorts of technology. Edited February 23, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 They are not explicable with publicly accessible knowledge. We gradually rule out that things were alien made objects using new scientific data or leaks of experimental military technology, there's plenty of room for experimental military technology, and it often takes time for a scientific patent to be made, reviewed, then brought to the attention of the public if the media wants to do that, like ball lightning which was not brought up much in the scientific world until the 20th and 21st century. If it's explainable, it doesn't mean we have to assume it's any particular thing, but looking at the chances of life forming and then seeing that we ourselves don't have that technology after all this time, means it isn't very likely we are going to encounter alien life. Again, your long odds assertion is meaningless if aliens are really visiting us, you assert it like it is gospel but in fact there are reasonable explanations for UFOs being in our solar system that have nothing to do with us and don't require magical technology that defies the laws of physics. I don't want to assume anything but i don't want to drive a square peg into a round hole either... And ball lightning is poorly understood at best and has no supporting evidence other than what people say they saw... “I could more easily believe that two Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall down from heaven.” Thomas Jefferson just because something is outside the conventional world view it doesn't mean it is horse feathers... I think it's more reasonable to suggest experimental military technology which at the time would have gotten someone thrown in prison for 20 years or more or executed if they told anyone about it because of all the paranoia going on with other countries being able to bomb the US with new technology, also wasn't it a plane, not a helicopter? The military really really is looking into a wide variety of creative technology and so are universalities, they have self healing gasoline transporters, rail-guns and plasma weapons and drones and stealth bombers and probably some experimental technology that is highly maneuverable, what air force wouldn't want that? Even the Germans tried making some hovering mercury balls. No, even today such a large object capable of expending enough energy to travel that fast, hover, and accelerate away like that object did is beyond us even today... Also, why does most of this stuff take place in the US? How come I don't hear of rural UFO sightings in rural Africa or Israel or China or India which are very densely populated, even though there are people there and people who get media attention and even write books? I think mass media in the US has something to do with over exaggerating some aspects of the whole UFO case as well, leading some people to even try and fake it for attention. It does not seem to be a coincidence that it seems to happen the most in the US compared to every other country when we have all sorts of mass media in the US and one of the most powerful militaries in the world that experiments with all sorts of technology. Sam, just because you haven't heard of UFOs from someplace other than the US doesn't mean they are not sighted all over the world, in fact all the places you mentioned have been the sites of a great many inexplicable UFO sightings... They have been seen all over the planet from pole to pole but pilots, scientists, law enforcement, and lots of ordinary people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACG52 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 If there's no explanation it MUST be space Aliens. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) If there's no explanation it MUST be space Aliens. QED. I do admit that the most reasonable explanation of some reports is some type of craft not of this world but I am willing to review new interpretations of the data as long as the proposed explanation is not impossible. ie slow meteors, super sonic pelicans ect... I think the subject deserves and requires serious scientific study not ridicule and derision... Assuming from the get go that the aliens explanation is impossible and shouldn't even be considered is simply wrong... every bit as wrong as ridiculing people who thought rocks fell from the sky... Edited February 23, 2013 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Again, your long odds assertion is meaningless if aliens are really visiting us, All of physics is meaningless is we live in a giant computer too. Doesn't mean we should assume that's what's happening or that that's very likely, we have no proof of it and hardly any evidence. No, even today such a large object capable of expending enough energy to travel that fast, hover, and accelerate away like that object did is beyond us even today... Rockets launched into space exceed 11,000 miles per hour , and the relative view of objects. If an object heads directly towards you from a very large distance, it appears still, so when it makes a gradual turn it looks as though it was still then suddenly made a 90 degree motion. Sam, just because you haven't heard of UFOs from someplace other than the US doesn't mean they are not sighted all over the world, in fact all the places you mentioned have been the sites of a great many inexplicable UFO sightings... They have been seen all over the planet from pole to pole but pilots, scientists, law enforcement, and lots of ordinary people... The US by far has the most "legitimate" recordings of UFOs, and not coincidentally it has the most powerful and creative military in the world with some of the most modern technology and mass media. It seems like you completely ignored my point that the "stealth blimp" exactly matched descriptions of acclaimed UFO sightings. I the most reasonable explanation of some reports is some type of craft The most reasonable explanation is certainly not something related to a life form that had a 1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of originally forming, then a 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of evolving enough to create space technology, then a 1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of finding Earth. The most reasonable explanation for very advanced air crafts is that the armed forces of the world became more creative and experimented with a variety of aerial technology which was fueled by paranoia of the Soviet Union and nuclear war, and for other countries it was similar. Here's what we know, Proof that UFOs turn out to be natural or man-made objects: x>4 Proof that UFOs turn out to be aliens: 0 Given this data, we can say with certainty that in the event of a UFO is seen, that it is more likely a natural or man made object than an alien even without considering the odds I mentioned above. Edited February 23, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Let me see if i get your logic correctly, there is a lottery, you know it's extremely unlikely any individual ticket is a winner but among all the possibilities you know there is a winner eventually. you are walking along and see a lottery ticket blowing by in the wind... since the likely hood that ticket is a winner is so outrageous you let the ticket blow by never even considering going after it? if you do pick it up do you throw it away because it's so worthless? Or do you look at it, determine which game it is and loot it up and see if it is a winner? Which person are you? And by the way, the odds thing you keep talking about is just as meaningless as asserting it as the source of life.... There is evidence, even militarys admit to this, a great deal of it is just silly, stuff that anyone with reasonable vision would see right away as an explainable probability. No one disputes this... Some of it is stuff that attracts your attention but it just can't be completely trusted ie Billy Joe Jim Bob and his cousin Earl were abducted by aliens while they were fishing, there was some odd radar traffic in the area but few make the connection and those that do are sure it was just false returns... A nothing story, a campfire tale... An unknown glowing object hovers over several under ground nuclear missile sites... The missiles shut down, there is widespread failure of equipment. the glowing object rises up and begins to show on radar, a passing B52 Bomber carrying Nuclear bombs which is scheduled to land at a nearby military base is rerouted to see what the object was, a civilian air liner in the area is also asked to report anything. The B52's radar picks up the object and records it on a tape. The pilots see the object estimated to be bigger than the bomber by a wide margin. The civilian airliner also picks up the object but they can't see it visually due to a cloud bank. Hoax? by your line of reasoning it has to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Moon You want to look at likely distances for alien civilisatiions and the energy requirements to travel those distances. To accelerate 1 tonne to 10% of the speed of light requires 125 billion Kwh of energy, assuming 100% efficency; The average US nuclear power station produces 11 billion kwh in a year so you need the annual output of 11 nuclear power stations to push your 1 tonne rocket to 67 million mph (10% SOL). Say there was an alien civilisation around Alpha Centauri it would take 43 years to reach here...86 years round trip...a long time for a jaunt. They will need that same amount of 125 billion kwh to decelerate. Their craft would at a minimum be many tonnes and the numbers get even sillier. Look at the size of the "craft" in the photos...can they seriously store the required amount of energy in that amount of space? i used this Wiki to get some rough numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel and other bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) since the likely hood that ticket is a winner is so outrageous you let the ticket blow by never even considering going after it? Yeah I wouldn't go after it because I wouldn't buy one in the first place. . you do pick it up do you throw it away because it's so worthless? Or do you look at it, determine which game it is and loot it up and see if it is a winner? I probably throw it away because I realized it was a waste of money and that it was worthless, that's how people behind lottery people make so much money, and why people who win the lottery end up blowing all their winnings on thousands of lottery tickets only to lose it all. I suppose if I felt like it I could keep it just for the fun of it, but after playing so many hands of poker and expecting my finale to be pulled off on the river and failing, I just have to accept it's unlikely. .And by the way, the odds thing you keep talking about is just as meaningless as asserting it as the source of life.... There is evidence, even militarys admit to this, a great deal of it is just silly, stuff that anyone with reasonable vision would see right away as an explainable probability. No one disputes this... Localized militaries admit they don't know everything OR they do not want the public to know about their information because it would be treason. There is definitely experimental technology that china has which we don't know about, and there is definitely experimental technology we have that China doesn't know about, and there are definitely leaks that could get someone accused of treason. An unknown glowing object hovers over several under ground nuclear missile sites... The missiles shut down, there is widespread failure of equipment. the glowing object rises up and begins to show on radar, a passing B52 Bomber carrying Nuclear bombs which is scheduled to land at a nearby military base is rerouted to see what the object was, a civilian air liner in the area is also asked to report anything. The B52's radar picks up the object and records it on a tape. The pilots see the object estimated to be bigger than the bomber by a wide margin. The civilian airliner also picks up the object but they can't see it visually due to a cloud bank. Hoax? by your line of reasoning it has to be... Don't know, but I'm definitely not going to assume it's aliens, I'll say it's more likely it was an experimental craft above the pay-grade of the pilot, which easily happens. I talked to a military official the other day about their research and patenting mine in relation to it, they said it was classified and they did not have access to it. The technology was above the pay grade of the pilot, but the higher ranking officials still wanted to test it quickly, so they did it on a run of one of their own pilots, though I hope they did not expect the pilot to die. You really shouldn't expect your government to tell you all it's secrets, or even most of them. Edited February 24, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Yeah I wouldn't go after it because I wouldn't buy one in the first place. Sigh... you didn't buy it, you weren't looking for it was just there I probably throw it away because I realized it was a waste of money and that it was worthless, that's how people behind lottery people make so much money, and why people who win the lottery end up blowing all their winnings on thousands of lottery tickets only to lose it all. I suppose if I felt like it I could keep it just for the fun of it, but after playing so many hands of poker and expecting my finale to be pulled off on the river and failing, I just have to accept it's unlikely. You do understand quite a bit of lotto money has been won that way, I'm not sure if it was ever the jackpot but it happens enough to make it worth your while to check. Localized militaries admit they don't know everything OR they do not want the public to know about their information because it would be treason. There is definitely experimental technology that china has which we don't know about, and there is definitely experimental technology we have that China doesn't know about, and there are definitely leaks that could get someone accused of treason. To be honest, in the spirit of full disclosure most of the military i am talking about was well before the current military we have now but since the government of the USA admitted to a spy satellite seeing the object or something odd in the same place that falsifies your assertion. sometimes it takes years to get out but they do get out. Don't know, but I'm definitely not going to assume it's aliens, I'll say it's more likely it was an experimental craft above the pay-grade of the pilot, which easily happens. I talked to a military official the other day about their research and patenting mine in relation to it, they said it was classified and they did not have access to it. The technology was above the pay grade of the pilot, but the higher ranking officials still wanted to test it quickly, so they did it on a run of one of their own pilots, though I hope they did not expect the pilot to die. You really shouldn't expect your government to tell you all it's secrets, or even most of them. I will admit that many solved ufo cases have come out due to various military test vehicles, one UFO favorite of the true believers is the case where two woman and little boy witnessed a UFO surrounded by helicopters flying low over head, the ufo was leaking molten material and the women felt a huge wave of heat. only one had left the car but she had radiation sickness. The path the ufo had taken when it came close to the women was old pavement, with a few days all of it was dug up and replaced with new pavement. The women and the little boy were suffering to some degree with radiation sickness. The government has refused to acknowledge this happened... well they still do, Alien space craft or nuclear powered experimental aircraft? I don't assert that unexplained ufos are alien space craft, what i do know is the US government played an intense game of disinformation from the very beginning, people do come forward but their stories are so wild at first blush they can't be true... can they? it used to be a common claim from the debunkers that if these things were being covered up why hasn't anyone come forward? , then we find out that people have been coming forward, then we hear they must be cranks... Hummm I think there was a joke too, something about the government couldn't keep a secret in a bucket... Moon You want to look at likely distances for alien civilisatiions and the energy requirements to travel those distances. To accelerate 1 tonne to 10% of the speed of light requires 125 billion Kwh of energy, assuming 100% efficency; The average US nuclear power station produces 11 billion kwh in a year so you need the annual output of 11 nuclear power stations to push your 1 tonne rocket to 67 million mph (10% SOL). Say there was an alien civilisation around Alpha Centauri it would take 43 years to reach here...86 years round trip...a long time for a jaunt. They will need that same amount of 125 billion kwh to decelerate. Their craft would at a minimum be many tonnes and the numbers get even sillier. Look at the size of the "craft" in the photos...can they seriously store the required amount of energy in that amount of space? i used this Wiki to get some rough numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel and other bits. Oh yes, i agree, that can't be disputed if you accept that paradigm... I do not... I have a little pet hypothesis that negates that problem. It is often said that if there are aliens... where are they? Fermi's paradox I think it's called. it is difficult to get through until you realize that for us to detect the earth from the nearest star would require we send a powerful signal directly at them other wise all the electronic noise gets absorbed by the interstellar medium. on two occasions strong signals have been received by radioscopes and they resembled a military radar but it was short lived and never repeated a prerequisite of any signal on it's way to being considered an alien signal. but the only signals of ours that could be easily received by an alien planet would be a random sweep of a military radar.. kinda makes you go hmmm. but anyway my theory says they are not only here they are everywhere... it has been said that even our civilization, maybe a few decades more advanced, could colonize the entire galaxy in a few million years. by constructing slow ships, generational ships designed to take hundreds if not thousands of years to get to another star but once they get there they have spent many generations living inside the space ship which would have evolved in design from artificial habitats used to colonize the ort cloud objects in their star system. i think space faring species evolve from species that colonize the most productive areas of their own star, once you have generations growing up inside huge rotating habitats using them to travel to another star taking many generations would seem to follow but they would colonize areas like asteroid belts and Kuiper belts and ort clouds, why bother with gravity wells when everything you need is all around you? i think their civilization will be based on carbon the way ours is based on steel. but i digress, just meandering about how i think this situation could have come about. but the galaxy is huge and so are ort clouds, ours stretches almost half way to the nearest star, i can see a very slow steady progression of stars being colonized in this manner and planets being ignored unless they held an emerging species, not all of then would care but there are always those specialists that want to track down the primitive tribe and study it. i think this might solve the ufo problem but unlike just a horse feathers story this can be falsified... I really thought WISE would show no infra red anomalies and i could go back to being... skeptical... I now know the WISE wasn't able to focus on such small objects that far away. so this hypothesis remains if for no other reason that it's better than ideas that violate the laws of physics and reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md65536 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 To accelerate 1 tonne to 10% of the speed of light requires 125 billion Kwh of energy, assuming 100% efficency; The average US nuclear power station produces 11 billion kwh in a yearHow do you know that aliens are about as massive as Americans and have a similar national energy output and are about as technologically advanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) You do understand quite a bit of lotto money has been won that way, I'm not sure if it was ever the jackpot but it happens enough to make it worth your while to check. But it doesn't make it worthwhile to bet on it. To be honest, in the spirit of full disclosure most of the military i am talking about was well before the current military we have now but since the government of the USA admitted to a spy satellite seeing the object or something odd in the same place that falsifies your assertion. sometimes it takes years to get out but they do get out. Experimentations with military aircraft have been done almost since planes were invented, it in no way falsifies my assertions if occasionally a military official illegally leaks information or that a higher ranking government official tells whatever military base to address something that seems to be causing a lot of concern in a public area or that some media outlet keeps pressuring them about something they no longer consider to be a possible threat to the their country. The fact that it takes time should tell you that's what could be happening easily right now. The women and the little boy were suffering to some degree with radiation sickness. Which can more easily have nothing to do with the UFO. They use to paint plates with radioactive materials even. first blush they can't be true... can they? If your talking about something with a 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of occurring, probably not. The only part that's true is that they observed something which to them was most likely in the sky (cause there's lens tricks). then we find out that people have been coming forward, then we hear they must be cranks... Hummm That same logic can be used to say that global warming is a hoax. You don't think global warming is a hoax do you? Just because a few climatologists "came forward" and said it is? Edited February 24, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 How do you know that aliens are about as massive as Americans and have a similar national energy output and are about as technologically advanced? I don't. I'm just trying to put across the scale of the problem referenced against what we have and know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 But it doesn't make it worthwhile to bet on it.No one is asking you to bet, i am just asking you if you think it's right to simply wave away reports that cannot in all honesty be explained and to understand that the odds have nothing to do with the problem...Experimentations with military aircraft have been done almost since planes were invented, it in no way falsifies my assertions if occasionally a military official illegally leaks information or that a higher ranking government official tells whatever military base to address something that seems to be causing a lot of concern in a public area or that some media outlet keeps pressuring them about something they no longer consider to be a possible threat to the their country. The fact that it takes time should tell you that's what could be happening easily right now. you wave your arms i'll wave mine so much fun... Which can more easily have nothing to do with the UFO. They use to paint plates with radioactive materials even.Actually in this case it was deadly, the women and boy had been exposed to enough radiation to cause horrific problems with the woman who got out her car eventually dying... it wasn't paint... but it was probably a experimental aircraft of the US If your talking about something with a 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of occurring, probably not. The only part that's true is that they observed something which to them was most likely in the sky (cause there's lens tricks).So all pictures are lens flares... That same logic can be used to say that global warming is a hoax. You don't think global warming is a hoax do you? Just because a few climatologists "came forward" and said it is?Are you going to mention Hitler next? bTW Sam you invoked ball lightning to explain UFOs, invoking on mystery to solve yet another is a bit much don't you think? ,maybe ball lightning is alien probes... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning Ball lightning is an unexplained atmospheric electrical phenomenon. The term refers to reports ofluminous, usually spherical objects which vary from pea-sized to several meters in diameter. It is usually associated with thunderstorms, but lasts considerably longer than the split-second flash of a lightningbolt. Many of the early reports say that the ball eventually explodes, sometimes with fatal consequences, leaving behind the odor of sulfur[citation needed]. Laboratory experiments have produced effects that are visually similar to reports of ball lightning, but it is unknown whether these are actually related to any naturally occurring phenomenon. Scientific data on natural ball lightning are scarce owing to its infrequency and unpredictability. The presumption of its existence is based on reported public sightings, and has therefore produced somewhat inconsistent findings. Given inconsistencies and the lack of reliable data, the true nature of ball lightning is still unknown.[1] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) you wave your arms i'll wave mine so much fun... Except my arms actually got a hold of proof that what I said can happen. There are numerous confirmations that UFOs turn out to be man-made or natural objects, and 0 confirmations they turn out to be alien made objects. Given that set of data, you'd have to be in denial not to think that data shows that it is more likely a UFO is not alien made. Actually in this case it was deadly, the women and boy had been exposed to enough radiation to cause horrific problems with the woman who got out her car eventually dying... it wasn't paint... but it was probably a experimental aircraft of the US So all pictures are lens flares... It doesn't matter, there is no logical reason to assume they have to be connected. The fact that it was only those two and no one else seems rather strange for it to have been the UFO. By your logical I could argue that god caused someone to commit murder because the victim went to church. You need more than coincidental circumstances. The people were wearing cloths when the UFO was around. Does that mean we should assume UFOs had some kind of clothing ray? Multiple reportings the same description of an object doesn't seem coincidental, but a health problem shouldn't automatically be associated with aliens, or even any UFO. If we knew the material was highly radioactive enough to cause deadly radiation poisoning in a short amount of time, I'll give you that, but even then, it still doesn't mean it was aliens, there's radioactive waste to consider that was being transported if the material was radioactive as well. Are you going to mention Hitler next? You're purposely avoiding my point because the answer is "no", you wouldn't say global warming is a hoax, and that would make your point look bad if you said "no". The people who claim to have "proof" of UFOs are not the typical photographer, most photographers don't capture good evidence of a UFO that is unexplainable. They don't all have to be crazy, but we don't have to think they know what they are talking about either, if they simply state "it was a UFO", that's fine, but if anyone states "aliens were involved", they have no proof of that whatsoever. A few people saying they claim to have seen alien-made crafts doesn't mean they were alien-made crafts. bTW Sam you invoked ball lightning to explain UFOs, invoking on mystery to solve yet another is a bit much don't you think? ,maybe ball lightning is alien probes... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning There are in fact reports which you've probably seen that people see moving glowing balls. Turned out to be a natural phenomena. You have no reason to attack it as I did not say ball lightning could explain all UFO sightings. Edited February 24, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Except my arms actually got a hold of proof that what I said can happen. There are numerous confirmations that UFOs turn out to be man-made or natural objects, and 0 confirmations they turn out to be alien made objects. Given that set of data, you'd have to be in denial not to think that data shows that it is more likely a UFO is not alien made. By your own definition there can be no conformation of alien space craft because photos are not evidence , first had multiple reports are no good, radar contacts are no good so no condition other than a space craft landing on the white house lawn could possibly satisfy you. It doesn't matter, there is no logical reason to assume they have to be connected. The fact that it was only those two and no one else seems rather strange for it to have been the UFO. By your logical I could argue that god caused someone to commit murder because the victim went to church. You need more than coincidental circumstances. The people were wearing cloths when the UFO was around. Does that mean we should assume UFOs had some kind of clothing ray? Multiple reportings the same description of an object doesn't seem coincidental, but a health problem shouldn't automatically be associated with aliens, or even any UFO. If we knew the material was highly radioactive enough to cause deadly radiation poisoning in a short amount of time, I'll give you that, but even then, it still doesn't mean it was aliens, there's radioactive waste to consider that was being transported if the material was radioactive as well. http://www.ufocasebook.com/Pineywoods.html You're purposely avoiding my point because the answer is "no", you wouldn't say global warming is a hoax, and that would make your point look bad if you said "no". The people who claim to have "proof" of UFOs are not the typical photographer, most photographers don't capture good evidence of a UFO that is unexplainable. They don't all have to be crazy, but we don't have to think they know what they are talking about either, if they simply state "it was a UFO", that's fine, but if anyone states "aliens were involved", they have no proof of that whatsoever. A few people saying they claim to have seen alien-made crafts doesn't mean they were alien-made crafts. Sam... this is simply horse feathers, a typical photographer? You are not making sense, what is a typical photographer and why would you expect them to be at the site of a UFO sighting? There are in fact reports which you've probably seen that people see moving glowing balls. Turned out to be a natural phenomena. You have no reason to attack it as I did not say ball lightning could explain all UFO sightings. Ball lightning is a UFO... damn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel123456 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Wasted intellectual energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) Wasted intellectual energy. Thank you... thank you very much... I'll do my best to make sure you are among those executed in a painless and orderly manor when the alien over lords assume control... There are in fact reports which you've probably seen that people see moving glowing balls. Turned out to be a natural phenomena. You have no reason to attack it as I did not say ball lightning could explain all UFO sightings. No, so far they have been a series of possibly related but unexplained phenomena that are being investigated... Far more evidence of UFOs exists than for Ball lightning yet ball lightning is assumed to be real enough to explain UFOs? Get real... Ball lightning is ok to speculate about, investigate, but UFOs are not worthy of consideration? That is a seriously weak argument... Edited February 24, 2013 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBridge Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) By your own definition there can be no conformation of alien space craft because photos are not evidence , first had multiple reports are no good, radar contacts are no good so no condition other than a space craft landing on the white house lawn could possibly satisfy you. http://www.ufocasebook.com/Pineywoods.html Sam... this is simply horse feathers, a typical photographer? You are not making sense, what is a typical photographer and why would you expect them to be at the site of a UFO sighting? Ball lightning is a UFO... damn.... By my definitions we have numerous confirmations that UFOs are natural or man-made objects and 0, I repeat, 0 confirmations they are alien made objects. http://www.ufocasebook.com/Pineywoods.html Could have been an over exaggerated story of a meteor or experimental craft carrying toxic waste, it sounds like the testing to see if toxic waste could be used as a weapon instead of just storing it in some ground. Either way, given our previous accounts with debunking things like this I'm not going to assume it was aliens. Sam... this is simply horse feathers, a typical photographer? You are not making sense, what is a typical photographer and why would you expect them to be at the site of a UFO sighting? I do photography as a hobby and I know many other photographers, none of us have had any picture that could legitimately be called a "UFO". Go take a survey, you will find most photographers do not have pictures of things that could be an alien space-craft. Ball lightning is a UFO... damn.... You're still straw-manning that I said ball lightning cal explain all UFO cases, there is no logical reason to attack the notion that ball lightning can and has been documented as being mistaken for an alien made object unless you are failing at straw-manning, which means you're done. Edited February 24, 2013 by SamBridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) By my definitions we have numerous confirmations that UFOs are natural or man-made objects and 0, I repeat, 0 confirmations they are alien made objects. I ask again, a little more directly, what would it take to confirm such a thing? On top of that even evolution by natural selection cannot be positively concluded, a great deal of that theory, until quite recently, was nothing but deductive reasoning yet it is the most well supported theory in science... Why simply wave away the problem of inexplicable UFO sightings? Could have been an over exaggerated story of a meteor or experimental craft carrying toxic waste, it sounds like the testing to see if toxic waste could be used as a weapon instead of just storing it in some ground. Either way, given our previous accounts with debunking things like this I'm not going to assume it was aliens. I am not of the opinion it was an alien space craft either... When i first heard of it I was young and a UFO nut and i still figured it was man made technology of some sort, these things can be sorted out as to likely explanations but not all of them fit the mold... I do photography as a hobby and I know many other photographers, none of us have had any picture that could legitimately be called a "UFO". Go take a survey, you will find most photographers do not have pictures of things that could be an alien space-craft. Been there done that, I must have 100 rolls of undeveloped film, i most photographed nature, i tamed a wasps nest once just so i could take close ups of the mean little bastards but again i digress, but you will have to show that "most photographers" is sufficient to show there are no alien space craft visiting the earth... it is not... it is in fact not evidence of anything positive or negative... You're still straw-manning that I said ball lightning cal explain all UFO cases, there is no logical reason to attack the notion that ball lightning can and has been documented as being mistaken for an alien made object unless you are failing at straw-manning, which means you're done. I am straw manning? You don't see the problem with asserting one unknown as an explanation for yet another unknown even in some cases to be a bit dishonest? Edited February 24, 2013 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now