Paying someone to help my dad out with religion

[garbonzo607]

Hey, guys. I need help with my Dad. He has been brainwashed by the cult religion, the Jehovah's Witnesses, which I grew up with myself, of course, but fortunately came to my senses. I believe the right person can persuade him to see the facts. He is not too close-minded like a lot of fundamentalists.

 

I've wrote about my Dad's story here, but found no interest in helping me:

http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2913996

 

I need someone to chat with him about religion, the Bible, etc. and see how it goes. If he is unreasonable, so be it, but I do believe his will be reasonable and come to his senses. I wish for you to record the conversation (I can help with this if you don't know how), and share it with the world. I believe this will help spread the real truth around the world. I will create a website around the audio files and we can split the profits (you can have access to the adsense account a long with me to be sure). I will also pay you in a $5 Amazon GC.

 

I would really appreciate if someone could do this for me! I'll help with anything you want. Please message me if you feel you can do this, and be sure to visit the above link. It will also help the atheist community.

 

- Mike

[iNow]

Mike - It`s a strange request, especially online like this. I know you want to help your dad, and that`s cool, but he needs to want to help himself. If you try to force it on him, he will almost certainly resist. That`s the way most people are, and probably your dad, too.

 

People often need to discover their own answers, especially on the subject of religion. It cannot generally be told to them by someone else. It`s simply too important a topic.

 

Also, be cautious inviting to pay people. I cannot stress this point enough. You are more likely to be taken advantage of by a crook with such an offer than you are to entice someone capable of helping to do so.

 

Live your own life. Be true to your own sense of reason and rationality. Make quality arguments and remain logical. But trying to change your dad will likely fail and cause you nothing but frustration and heartache. Just be consistent and calm and perhaps one day he`ll better appreciate your position.

 

Good luck.

[garbonzo607]

Mike - It`s a strange request, especially online like this. I know you want to help your dad, and that`s cool, but he needs to want to help himself. If you try to force it on him, he will almost certainly resist. That`s the way most people are, and probably your dad, too.

 

People often need to discover their own answers, especially on the subject of religion. It cannot generally be told to them by someone else. It`s simply too important a topic.

 

Also, be cautious inviting to pay people. I cannot stress this point enough. You are more likely to be taken advantage of by a crook with such an offer than you are to entice someone capable of helping to do so.

 

Live your own life. Be true to your own sense of reason and rationality. Make quality arguments and remain logical. But trying to change your dad will likely fail and cause you nothing but frustration and heartache. Just be consistent and calm and perhaps one day he`ll better appreciate your position.

 

Good luck.

 

He doesn't know my position. If he did he will disown me along with all my family and friends. That's why I can't do this myself. My dad is totally oblivious. He did no research into this matter, because it is not readily available to him. If he saw that there is no evidence of the Bible, unlike religion brainwashed him to believe, I am sure he will have doubts. I do not want to force him to do anything, if he is unreasonable then so be it, but he needs a chance, and he can't do that in his current position.

 

I will transfer the GC when the person proves he is capable. If he is more respected on this forum, then that gives points. I can also give him the GC in the middle of the phone call. That way we are both protected.

 

Thank you for your insightful post. =)

[Villain]

He doesn't know my position. If he did he will disown me along with all my family and friends. That's why I can't do this myself. My dad is totally oblivious. He did no research into this matter, because it is not readily available to him. If he saw that there is no evidence of the Bible, unlike religion brainwashed him to believe, I am sure he will have doubts. I do not want to force him to do anything, if he is unreasonable then so be it, but he needs a chance, and he can't do that in his current position.

 

I will transfer the GC when the person proves he is capable. If he is more respected on this forum, then that gives points. I can also give him the GC in the middle of the phone call. That way we are both protected.

 

Thank you for your insightful post. =)

 

How would his life be better without his religion, is perhaps the question you should be asking and to what extent is the religion that he prescribes to doing harm to him? Does it not offer him anything of value, even if you think it is not real as such? One might even go further to say that if it was of no value to him he would not prescribe to it. I think the assumption that religion only offers eternal life after death is a little limited and quite often it's a community and support system that is hard to find in other areas of life.

[iNow]

Why would one want to live their life based on a fairytale, immersed in a delusion, and disconnected from reality? One needs none of those things to maintain a strong social community, hope, or happy life.

[Villain]

I don't want to hijack the thread. If you want to discuss it, open a new thread and I'll post.

[Mafio]

The problem of "cult religions" like you call them or sects as I would call them is, that they are not just stupid believers who could not harm anyone, but they can be really dangerous.

The Jehovah's Witnesses, so far I've heard, are a real dangerous problem because they are looking so peaceful and innocent that you would never guess that they are systematically abusing children, brainwashing people and making money from it.

I don't want to offend anyone here, and my point of view is very tied to the the the Jehovah's Witnesses at my country and the ones I've made, so I can't say it in general; but, I would take Mikes problem very serious and I would suggest you, that you get in contact with some kind of sect commissioner in your region and he/she will hopefully guide you to some special psychologists who know how to handle that. Because this is nothing you can handle alone, and this is also nothing which goes under freedom of religion or anything else.

[john5746]

I would suggest getting him involved(with you) in something like a community center course on evolution or just about any science. Possibly a yoga class or something that gets both of you involved with non-Jehovahs and people with open minds. I doubt a direct approach will work - think outside of the box and try to enjoy yourself with him in something that is enlightening. Visit a science museum?

 

I would not make the goal to convert to atheism, I would make the goal to open the mind and improve critical thinking. If you just ditch religion without improving critical thinking, I think you miss the point. The path is the goal.

[A Tripolation]

Why would one want to live their life based on a fairytale, immersed in a delusion, and disconnected from reality? One needs none of those things to maintain a strong social community, hope, or happy life.

 

Because it often gives people something more to believe in. It gives them an afterlife to look forward to.

 

 

And it's threads like these which give strength to the "atheism is a religion" cause. Active attempts at conversion to a certain ideology? Yep. Religion. Congrats.

 

If he saw that there is no evidence of the Bible, unlike religion brainwashed him to believe, I am sure he will have doubts. I do not want to force him to do anything,

 

What's wrong with your father believing in something you don't? Provided that they are not extorting money from him or using him, let the man do what he wants with his life.

[mississippichem]

I would not make the goal to convert to atheism, I would make the goal to open the mind and improve critical thinking. If you just ditch religion without improving critical thinking, I think you miss the point. The path is the goal.

 

+1, I agree quite strongly here. Even though I'm very much a hardline atheist my goal is not to "make converts" when I talk to people about religion. My goal is to get people to think critically about events that occur or have occurred in our universe. One can easily go wrong by clinging to atheism with illogical religious fervor. If one is to become an atheist I think he/she should reach that state by their own logic.

 

To the OP:

 

You could begin to talk about scientific things in a manner that stirs his thoughts. I imagine you could do this without exposing yourself and getting in trouble if you take it slowly. Tell him some things that you may have read about in history with respect to science.

 

Something like:

 

"Isn't it interesting how Newton thought about the world with respect to physics? He observed things and was able to collect his observations logically into theories of how objects behave."

 

Or perhaps:

 

"Isn't is interesting how humanity throughout the years has been consistently able to use logic and reason to deduce matters that were previously explained with mythology?" If he is a Jehova's Witness he will acknowledge that the Ancient Greek myths about Zeus making lightning when angry are untrue.

 

Once you can get someone into the right pattern of thinking, that is, the rationally skeptical one, you have accomplished a lot.

Edited March 12, 2012 by mississippichem

[Keenidiot]

I wouldn't pay someone, but check online for support groups and the like. This is one I found after a quick google search:

http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/

 

As far as it goes, attempting to change someone's mind is not intrinsically religious.

[garbonzo607]

Because it often gives people something more to believe in. It gives them an afterlife to look forward to.

 

 

And it's threads like these which give strength to the "atheism is a religion" cause. Active attempts at conversion to a certain ideology? Yep. Religion. Congrats.

 

 

 

What's wrong with your father believing in something you don't? Provided that they are not extorting money from him or using him, let the man do what he wants with his life.

 

I wrote about this at SciForums. Did you read it? Thank you.

 

I believe he will be much happier without this religion. He is not happy now, and he is depressed because of this religion. It is not helping him at all. He is stressed and it will only get worse, I'm sure.

 

As I've said so many times now, I only want to give him a chance. If he is not reasonable, then so be it, we tried, but he should be given a chance. For you to say he should do what he wants in life is like saying that to that one gay kid who committed suicide because of bullying. Maybe you could save someone from committing suicide if you get them to see the truth. By truth, I only mean logical thinking, not atheism as in "There is no God. Period." Obviously we don't know that. I'm just saying truth as in what we know currently.

Thanks guys.

 

1. I would suggest getting him involved(with you) in something like a community center course on evolution or just about any science. Possibly a yoga class or something that gets both of you involved with non-Jehovahs and people with open minds. I doubt a direct approach will work - think outside of the box and try to enjoy yourself with him in something that is enlightening. Visit a science museum?

 

2. I would not make the goal to convert to atheism, I would make the goal to open the mind and improve critical thinking. If you just ditch religion without improving critical thinking, I think you miss the point. The path is the goal.

 

1. He would never ever ever go to a course about evolution. He is brainwashed to think Jehovah's Witnesses is God's only true religion and everything they say it truth. They also teach that Yoga leads the way for you to be attacked by Demons, lol. I doubt he would even go to a science museum. He rarely wants to go to the movies, much less a museum, haha.

 

2. I agree 100% with you. I only want him to get out of this sect which is obviously not the truth. Whatever he believes after that is fine.

 

I cannot have any meaningful relationship with my Dad if he stays in this sect. I will basically lose my Dad and everyone I love.

 

I wouldn't pay someone, but check online for support groups and the like. This is one I found after a quick google search:

http://exjehovahswit...forum.yuku.com/

 

As far as it goes, attempting to change someone's mind is not intrinsically religious.

• 6 Registered Users

 

Oi.

Edited March 12, 2012 by garbonzo607

[iNow]

Because it often gives people something more to believe in. It gives them an afterlife to look forward to.

 

By this yardstick, should a child be encouraged to hold on to their imaginary friends through their teenager years and into adulthood because it makes them feel less alone, or should it maybe be actively discouraged and other coping mechanisms found?

 

Should someone with multiple personality disorder be encouraged to nurture those other personalities because they help them to cope with a past trauma, or should it maybe be actively discouraged and other coping mechanisms found?

 

Now apply your same reasoning to religious belief and perhaps you will better understand some of why I actively discourage it and so actively recommend alternative coping mechanisms... Perhaps you could do that instead of lashing out at me personally here suggesting that somehow my foreceful rejection of faith, my opposition to the unwavering prioritization of personal wishes and fantasies over reality, and my stern, strong, and steadfast anti-theism are themselves a religion or ideology. It is not.

[A Tripolation]

By this yardstick, should a child be encouraged to hold on to their imaginary friends through their teenager years and into adulthood because it makes them feel less alone, or should it maybe be actively discouraged and other coping mechanisms found?

 

I actually see no problem with that. I talk to myself all the time and it helps me organize my thoughts.

 

Should someone with multiple personality disorder be encouraged to nurture those other personalities because they help them to cope with a past trauma, or should it maybe be actively discouraged and other coping mechanisms found?

 

Multiple-personality disorder is rarely found in a mentally stable person. This is not a fair comparison.

 

 

Perhaps you could do that instead of lashing out at me personally here suggesting that somehow my foreceful rejection of faith, my opposition to the unwavering prioritization of personal wishes and fantasies over reality, and my stern, strong, and steadfast anti-theism are themselves a religion or ideology. It is not.

 

Where you got that anything in my message was a personal attack, I'll never know.

 

Active conversion to any ideology is proselytizing. Atheism can be a religion. In this case, you and the OP are both being very religious.

[iNow]

Atheist = not theist. There is no religion or ideology, regardless of how many times you continue to assert the contrary.

 

And FWIW, talking to yourself is [math]\ne[/math] having imaginary friends well into adulthood. The latter is very much "rarely found in a mentally stable person." If we cannot even agree on that then I suppose further diologue is rather pointless.

Edited March 13, 2012 by iNow

[Keenidiot]

Oi. <br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(248, 250, 252); ">

yeah yeah, hit google and see what you find. I just grabbed this one off the top, and it's specifically JH, there's other groups out there.

[Villain]

 

I will basically lose my Dad and everyone I love.

 

 

You present logic and reason as the importance of conversion, the search for 'truth' but this suggests emotion as you true motivation. I'm not trying to judge you by this remark but rather offer you insight. If you find it impossible to convert him as such, perhaps there are other ways of keeping the above quote in your life.

[garbonzo607]

You present logic and reason as the importance of conversion, the search for 'truth' but this suggests emotion as you true motivation. I'm not trying to judge you by this remark but rather offer you insight. If you find it impossible to convert him as such, perhaps there are other ways of keeping the above quote in your life.

 

I agree. But I have to at least try, right?

 

You present logic and reason as the importance of conversion, the search for 'truth' but this suggests emotion as you true motivation. I'm not trying to judge you by this remark but rather offer you insight. If you find it impossible to convert him as such, perhaps there are other ways of keeping the above quote in your life.

 

I agree. But I have to at least try, right?

[Villain]

I don't think that is something that anybody else besides yourself should be answering. I not sure of the religion that you present but is there not perhaps space for you to keep your relation with your family and friends/love ones without making your main connection religion?

 

If you do succeed in 'converting' (don't think that's the right word but anyway) your dad from his religion will he not have the same problems that you are encountering?

 

I'm not actively looking for answers to the above questions, but if you would like to discuss it further I'll try bring the concepts that you should consider to your attention (I am not a professional psychologist btw, so know that this is more of a hobby than professional trained advice).

[iNow]

I not sure of the religion that you present but is there not perhaps space for you to keep your relation with your family and friends/love ones without making your main connection religion?

Your posts regularly indicate challenges with reading comprehension. Is this something you've had diagnosed, perhaps? I ask because the answer to your question is quite clear if you've read the thread at all, and this is not the first time on this site you've made such a comment where the answer was right before you.

 

If you do succeed in 'converting' (don't think that's the right word but anyway) your dad from his religion will he not have the same problems that you are encountering?

Not if his "problem" is blindly following the teachings of a silly religion.

 

I'm not actively looking for answers to the above questions, but if you would like to discuss it further I'll try bring the concepts that you should consider to your attention (I am not a professional psychologist btw, so know that this is more of a hobby than professional trained advice).

With the way you always actively seek to proselytize and "spread the good word" at this site, I'd peg you as some sort of deacon or pastor, yes?

[rigney]

Your posts regularly indicate challenges with reading comprehension. Is this something you've had diagnosed, perhaps? I ask because the answer to your question is quite clear if you've read the thread at all, and this is not the first time on this site you've made such a comment where the answer was right before you.

 

 

Not if his "problem" is blindly following the teachings of a silly religion.

 

 

With the way you always actively seek to proselytize and "spread the good word" at this site, I'd peg you as some sort of deacon or pastor, yes?

 

Strange, how we all seem to have the right answers? But unless some cult is actually digging into his pocket, leave the poor bastard alone. Misery loves company unless it is fashioned into a "whip", and no one need that to die with. If you love your parent be kind; otherwise use a pillow.

[Villain]

Your posts regularly indicate challenges with reading comprehension. Is this something you've had diagnosed, perhaps? I ask because the answer to your question is quite clear if you've read the thread at all, and this is not the first time on this site you've made such a comment where the answer was right before you.

 

 

Not if his "problem" is blindly following the teachings of a silly religion.

 

 

With the way you always actively seek to proselytize and "spread the good word" at this site, I'd peg you as some sort of deacon or pastor, yes?

 

I know exactly what the religion is, I merely know very little about it is what I meant, thanks for helping me clarify a badly worded sentence.

 

How exactly does one convert someone to nothing?

 

No, would you like to try again?

[iNow]

How exactly does one convert someone to nothing?

Leaving religion behind does not dictate that you are left with nothing. That is a rather flawed assumption on your part. It simply means you have left religion behind. Essentially all other aspects of your existence remain, and contrary to your suggestion you are not left with "nothing."

[garbonzo607]

I don't think that is something that anybody else besides yourself should be answering. I not sure of the religion that you present but is there not perhaps space for you to keep your relation with your family and friends/love ones without making your main connection religion?

 

If you do succeed in 'converting' (don't think that's the right word but anyway) your dad from his religion will he not have the same problems that you are encountering?

 

I'm not actively looking for answers to the above questions, but if you would like to discuss it further I'll try bring the concepts that you should consider to your attention (I am not a professional psychologist btw, so know that this is more of a hobby than professional trained advice).

 

I see what you mean, but my Dad doesn't have any real friends, so it won't effect him that much. The only person he has is basically me. If he is out of the religion, his conscience will allow him to meet friends outside the religion.

 

Strange, how we all seem to have the right answers? But unless some cult is actually digging into his pocket, leave the poor bastard alone. Misery loves company unless it is fashioned into a "whip", and no one need that to die with. If you love your parent be kind; otherwise use a pillow.

 

He is depressed because of issues directly related to the religion.

[Moontanman]

Because it often gives people something more to believe in. It gives them an afterlife to look forward to.

 

 

And it's threads like these which give strength to the "atheism is a religion" cause. Active attempts at conversion to a certain ideology? Yep. Religion. Congrats.

 

 

 

What's wrong with your father believing in something you don't? Provided that they are not extorting money from him or using him, let the man do what he wants with his life.

 

While it is well known at this site i am an atheist I see no reason generally to proselytize atheism, and A Trip, you my friend are a trip. I know you are religious and I respect that simply because it's your right and you seem to be somewhat less than fundamentalist but seriously Trip, there are religions and their are religions. Jehovah's Witnesses are not exactly a live and let live type group. I would say they are every bit a cult by any definition of the word, in fact i would say an extremist cult.

 

Every last one of them I've spoken to that got away from them described it as "escaping" They actively seek to not only convert you, visit my house almost any Saturday morning, they pursue apostates vigorously and demand their members do not associate with apostates or any unbelievers or as they put it anyone not in the "Truth" and do their best to make it impossible to leave. They demand you cut everyone out of your life who is not JW, this makes it ever more difficult to get out since all your "friends" and "family" and possible support outside JW do not exist.

 

I honestly have no tolerance for them or their "beliefs" what so ever... They are creationists and believe every word of the bible is absolute truth.. but they decide on what those words actually mean.

 

I know it's anecdotal but I have heard some horror stories from apostates that make you want to call the police when they show up at your door.

 

Jehovah Witnesses are a danger to modern society in my estimation, in some ways a bit like Mormons and Scientology mixed together...

 

More on topic, all you can do is provide your dad with the information, extremist religions have a real hold over their members, brain washing is difficult to over come, he is your dad, be kind, but be who you are not what others want you to be... and as Trip said, let your Dad be who he is, it's sad he can't let you be who you are but that is the way of many religions and especially the Jehovah's Witnesses...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses

Edited March 15, 2012 by Moontanman