A Creation Story

[Mike Infinity]

There is no way for me to prove you how all of this came to be but let Us look into the future to see if we can't see for ourselves how we came to be. After all, a clock always returns to 12 so wherever the end is there you will also find the beginning.

 

Mankind is progressing very rapidly in the direction of technology. Even 10 years ago we were growing human hearts in jars of proteins with electric diodes connected to them, we have mapped the human genome codes and you gotta know there is an abundance of technology being concealed from us. So in 50 years where will we be? Creating humans from scratch? Sure they are doing that already with cloning. So what about in 500 years, or 1000?!

 

Well I know you get where I am going with this but let me talk about our planetary spiritual advancement 50-2000 years from now. We have risen from the dark ages and now one day there will be peace on earth and we will look back on our dark history as a lesson we had to learn before we got to this beautiful world. Our great-great-great grandchildren will most likely be born in a utopian paradise of unimaginable beauty and mindblowing technology and they will be oblivious to the unimaginable turmoil and pain that was the umbillical cord to their legacy. So how will they learn?

 

Technology coupled with Love and labor will undoubtedly compell them to create a planet, and place upon this world life, then watch it grow and guide it with the lessons from their history with hopes that one day they too will of themselves grow to be a perfect place.

 

Such is the history of Our world...

 

"Let Us make man in Our image and in Our likeness."

[imatfaal]

There is no way for me to prove you how all of this came to be but let Us look into the future to see if we can't see for ourselves how we came to be. After all, a clock always returns to 12 so wherever the end is there you will also find the beginning.

Not everything is cyclical - and not everything with a beginning has an end. But unsure what this has to do with anything.

 

Mankind is progressing very rapidly in the direction of technology. Even 10 years ago we were growing human hearts in jars of proteins with electric diodes connected to them, we have mapped the human genome codes and you gotta know there is an abundance of technology being concealed from us. So in 50 years where will we be? Creating humans from scratch? Sure they are doing that already with cloning. So what about in 500 years, or 1000?!

Not sure about the heart thing - I thought we were at a stge when the cellular scaffolding of an extant heart can be re-cloaked using stem cells ^₁; it's amazing but not quite heart from proteins yet. I don't buy the concealed research thing. Creating humans from scratch is a completely different ball game and at present and for the foreseeable future no ethics committee would entertain it

 

Well I know you get where I am going with this but let me talk about our planetary spiritual advancement 50-2000 years from now. We have risen from the dark ages and now one day there will be peace on earth and we will look back on our dark history as a lesson we had to learn before we got to this beautiful world. Our great-great-great grandchildren will most likely be born in a utopian paradise of unimaginable beauty and mindblowing technology and they will be oblivious to the unimaginable turmoil and pain that was the umbillical cord to their legacy. So how will they learn?

Frankly - I think I was born into a pretty amazing world; I get to hike in the Lake District and swim in the Aegean, and generally try and see beauty in everything no matter how mundane. But that does not stop me understanding (or at least seeking to understand) the deprivation of my family just a couple of generations back - or the current tragedy of poverty that is still rampant around the globe. You do your descendants a disservice by assuming that they will not be aware of previous generations suffering merely because of their own ease of life

 

Technology coupled with Love and labor will undoubtedly compell them to create a planet, and place upon this world life, then watch it grow and guide it with the lessons from their history with hopes that one day they too will of themselves grow to be a perfect place.

 

Such is the history of Our world...

 

"Let Us make man in Our image and in Our likeness."

Continuous auto-creation - there are stranger concepts; but I see no need for the concept, nor any evidence. As such it can be put aside from consideration until there is need or evidence.

 

 

 

1. http://www.stemcell....lor_D/home.html

[Mike Infinity]

You are missing the logical story, you must have thick borders and seldom dream at night. Treatment- say one prayer and email me in the morning. My post in one sentence: One day we will create humans, maybe we were created by humans too. Google "Rex Research- Suppressed and dormant technology". Either you are a troll for the status quo, or not well read. Peace out & holla back!

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mike Infinity

[hypervalent_iodine]

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Moderator Note

Mike Infinity, please leave personal comments out of it.

[Mike Infinity]

Very well moderator. However when the replier stated and I quote... "You do your descendants an disservice" is this not a personal comment? When logical creative expressions are targeted in a rhetorical way, communication of valid ideas may be smeared because the human mind tends to resonate with ego before logic. Meaning it's not what the person says that usually matters to outside observers, but how they say it, who has the most confidence and uses eloquence in place of profoundness. An asian script says, "True words aren't eloquent, and eloquent words aren't true." Moderator, if you please, be specific as to what personal comments I made and since this reply as well as the previous ones also contain personal comments, please clarify the difference between acceptable personal comments and those which are not and I will humbly cede to your authority.

 

Please excuse my inability to use the proper quotation tags, I am on my Samsung Galaxy Prevail by Boost Mobile and the full site glitches my phone when trying to place certain features in a post.

[hypervalent_iodine]

Or alternatively, you could read our rules and stop derailing the thread by responding to mod notes.

 

I was referring to this remark:

 

Either you are a troll for the status quo, or not well read

[Mike Infinity]

Thank you for being specific, this contributes to a smoother governing process. I cede to your authority and apologize for the insult to the initial replier. Allow me to break once more the rule of staying on topic to express that I have found no rule concerning responding to moderator notes.

[imatfaal]

You are missing the logical story, you must have thick borders and seldom dream at night. Treatment- say one prayer and email me in the morning. My post in one sentence: One day we will create humans, maybe we were created by humans too. Google "Rex Research- Suppressed and dormant technology". Either you are a troll for the status quo, or not well read. Peace out & holla back!

The status quo is sadly massive enough that it doesn't need me to troll for it - but even if I was (which I wasn't) this characterisation of my points does nothing to answer them. I looked at Rex Research - the wheat to chaff ratio is so small I gave up pretty soon. I gave you a link to a scientist who carries out cutting edge research - could you possibly do the same and set me right?

 

 

Very well moderator. However when the replier stated and I quote... "You do your descendants an disservice" is this not a personal comment?

I apologise if you felt that was offensive - maybe you could think of it as "your ideas do not give future peoples the same powers of intellect and observation as current humanity"

 

When logical creative expressions are targeted in a rhetorical way, communication of valid ideas may be smeared because the human mind tends to resonate with ego before logic.

Valid ideas can and will survive both a rhetorical and logical examination - I believe yours do not

 

Meaning it's not what the person says that usually matters to outside observers, but how they say it, who has the most confidence and uses eloquence in place of profoundness. An asian script says, "True words aren't eloquent, and eloquent words aren't true."

....rest of post snipped

But this is not an arena for outside observers - this is a science forum which means that great import is give to what you say; I criticised what you said and I stand by how I go about criticism. I provided counter-examples, both personal and scientific. I dealt with each point and offered what I felt were valid interpretations of empirical data that refuted your ideas. It seems the only form of response that you could accept would be acclamation and acceptance - if not, then tell me where I erred. I think your asian truism would be much better with the word "always" after each use of "aren't"

 

 

Thank you for being specific, this contributes to a smoother governing process. I cede to your authority and apologize for the insult to the initial replier. Allow me to break once more the rule of staying on topic to express that I have found no rule concerning responding to moderator notes.

apology noted - many thanks

[Mike Infinity]

I believe all of your points are opinions. I feel you and this modern world of science are like the latest and most advanced VCR to ever be created. The cheapest most simple DVD can out perform you. You are confident, but the whole of your personality was made evident as you dissected a idea. If you were sincere in your initial reply, then I encourage you to work on your ability to hold a regular conversation. Let start again. Do you think that our descendants will ever be able to create humans?

[imatfaal]

Yes. Could you show me the proof that we already can?

[Mike Infinity]

So is it a possibility that we were created by a advanced civilization? There is much evidence supporting this idea.

 

Everything that exist cannot be proven by hard physical evidence. For example, Love cannot be proven to exist, but I am sure you can agree that it does.

[Moontanman]

Yes. Could you show me the proof that we already can?

 

 

My wife and I have made two humans, quite good ones as a matter of fact

[Superfusion]

Okay Mike Infinity you may never get your point across to him, Minds so set on science only need everything explained with mathematics and/or scientific method otherwise they either do not understand or believe/claim that it is completely irrational.

 

*set on science only understand anything explained

 

[/Edit]

[Moontanman]

It's quite possible that humans may one day be able use DNA to make things the way we do any other material object, in fact I think it's quite likely, I'm not sure why we would want to make a human from chemicals because making them via sexual reproduction is so easy and so much fun... making a life form is not a mysterious process that involves magic, it is within the realm of beings like ourselves to make life forms both unique and copies of already existing organisms, it's just not possible yet but it is apparent that humans we see today were not made that way, life on earth evolved from simple organisms which no doubt developed in some way from already existing organic chemicals. So could it be done, I would say yes with the correct technology but was it done on the earth no, far too much evidence points to evolution via natural means, could god or other technological beings have used naturalistic methods to bring about life and the evolution of that life to bring about the diversity we see today ? Yes, but he or they did it with out leaving any evidence of doing so...

[imatfaal]

My wife and I have made two humans, quite good ones as a matter of fact

I was hoping no one had noticed that.

 

 

So is it a possibility that we were created by a advanced civilization? There is much evidence supporting this idea.

 

Everything that exist cannot be proven by hard physical evidence. For example, Love cannot be proven to exist, but I am sure you can agree that it does.

Possibility - yes. Evidence - not that I know of. Agree about love - but difficulty for finding evidence for abstract emotion does not imply that evidence for alien-genesis will be equally difficult. If we are the product of an alien world; I think it is everything - ie all life on earth. there are fairly respected scientists who will put forward the idea that mars would have been a possible habitat for life before earth was - and the transmission of cells via rock/meteors is not impossible. It is all very difficult to put a lid on though, speculation will very rapidly lead to layer upon layer of ideas.

 

 

Okay Mike Infinity you may never get your point across to him, Minds so set on science only need everything explained with mathematics and/or scientific method otherwise they either do not understand or believe/claim that it is completely irrational.

 

*set on science only understand anything explained

 

[/Edit]

Hey knock of the ad homs please.

[Klaynos]

Okay Mike Infinity you may never get your point across to him, Minds so set on science only need everything explained with mathematics and/or scientific method otherwise they either do not understand or believe/claim that it is completely irrational.

 

*set on science only understand anything explained

 

[/Edit]

 

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Moderator Note

This kind of comment is not conducive to a good discussion. Please do not make such posts.

 

Do not reply to this modnote.

[Mike Infinity]

I'm just glad to see people getting along and sharing ideas on a post without cutting eachother down. As far as evolution and creation, and the supporting evidence, I believe there is much evidence supporting creation. There is much evidence concerning ufos but we discard these facts in a degenerate form of group think. As humans I think we underestimate our tendency to be mislead and we adopt another person's ideas and say they are our own. Take the mission statement of the Enlightenment from wiki....

Enlightenment as "man's release from his self-incurred tutelage", tutelage being "man's inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another". [123]

 

This intellectual model of interpretation has been adopted by many historians since the 18th century, and is perhaps the most commonly used interpretation today.

 

Dorinda Outram provides a good example of a standard, intellectual definition of the Enlightenment:

 

Enlightenment was a desire for human affairs to be guided by rationality rather than by faith, superstition, or revelation; a belief in the power of human reason to change society and liberate the individual from the restraints of custom or arbitrary authority; all backed up by a world view increasingly validated by science rather than by religion or tradition.

Notice how the free thinkers of today adopt this as if it sprang directly from their own mind when in fact it is the PERSONAL ideas of another- evidence of group think, don't cha think? Also the former quote about tutalege Descartes wrote fathered the Enlightenment yet the latter quote by Outram is fundamentally different. The first quote is concerned with individuals personal interactions, one being free of another's guidance. While the second detests religion as a whole as if every religionist is in some way in error while glorifying science over faith and revelation. All I'm saying is beware of group think.

 

So the questions I have are: Where did the dna of the first living thing on earth come from? How did it have within it the potential of all that you see here, including the greatness of our civilization? Did love, courage, beauty, and all of the immeasurable facts of existence also have it's origin in this single-cell organism as well? Evolution it's not a fact until a scientist can bring life from lifeless matter in the same way they claim it took place on that faithful day billions of years ago. Though evolution is apparent because of the evidence, but without giving a concise cause of the event while considering it the cause of an emotional existence may prove to be erroneous as well as disastrous. Haste makes waste.

Intelligent Design - Message from the designers

Paper 58 - Life establishment on Earth

 

These links are way outside of accepted ideas, but cannot be disproven. Therefore can be considered evidence that needs to be reviewed for authenticity. Which can only be done by reason, not science.

[Moontanman]

I'm just glad to see people getting along and sharing ideas on a post without cutting eachother down. As far as evolution and creation, and the supporting evidence, I believe there is much evidence supporting creation. There is much evidence concerning ufos but we discard these facts in a degenerate form of group think. As humans I think we underestimate our tendency to be mislead and we adopt another person's ideas and say they are our own. Take the mission statement of the Enlightenment from wiki.... Notice how the free thinkers of today adopt this as if it sprang directly from their own mind when in fact it is the PERSONAL ideas of another- evidence of group think, don't cha think? Also the former quote about tutalege Descartes wrote fathered the Enlightenment yet the latter quote by Outram is fundamentally different. The first quote is concerned with individuals personal interactions, one being free of another's guidance. While the second detests religion as a whole as if every religionist is in some way in error while glorifying science over faith and revelation. All I'm saying is beware of group think.

 

So the questions I have are: Where did the dna of the first living thing on earth come from? How did it have within it the potential of all that you see here, including the greatness of our civilization? Did love, courage, beauty, and all of the immeasurable facts of existence also have it's origin in this single-cell organism as well? Evolution it's not a fact until a scientist can bring life from lifeless matter in the same way they claim it took place on that faithful day billions of years ago. Though evolution is apparent because of the evidence, but without giving a concise cause of the event while considering it the cause of an emotional existence may prove to be erroneous as well as disastrous. Haste makes waste.

Intelligent Design - Message from the designers

Paper 58 - Life establishment on Earth

 

These links are way outside of accepted ideas, but cannot be disproven. Therefore can be considered evidence that needs to be reviewed for authenticity. Which can only be done by reason, not science.

 

 

Raelians? Book of Urantia?