Transgendered Persons

[Xittenn]

In light of my recent upset in a thread where I was referred to as a man I thought I might open a thread to maybe address my issues and get some feedback on my situation. This is something I might have tried to do before so if I have, well . . .

 

A little background, I am a transgendered woman. That is all . . .

 

hahaha no really little background. . . I've known I've had a sexual identity issue since I was young, the details of this are probably unnecessary here. I started seeing psychologists and psychiatrists when I was about twelve years old, but this was for general social problems one of which was my sexual identity issue. There is a lot of debate about whether this is a genetic issue or not. I had a great aunt who was actually a hermaphrodite and one of my father's sisters has Aspergers Syndrome as does my cousine. I am going to be screened for a learning disability and will further discuss my family history and this will include my being transgendered.

 

For whatever reason I am transgendered, I am of the opinion that I was in fact born this way and there is very little that I could have ever done about it. When I was younger boys used to beat the hell out of me because they saw me as a gay who needed to be taught a lesson. I had developed breasts which I had had removed at the age of sixteen even despite my internalized self image issues. Honestly I had wanted to hide it from everybody because being different meant that people would beat me up, humiliate me, and impose on me a life that I would never understand. Although I had a lot of friends in my high school years I kept my issues to myself, I was afraid and alone. My friends knew I had interests in boys but at the same time any mention of this fact was so brief they may have never fully understood. When I began my transition at eighteen I had lost a lot of friends.

 

So I guess what I want to know is why my existence is so upsetting to people? I've seen very ugly threads on this forum about LGBT issues and I've tried to say my piece however unsuccessfully. I mean I'm just another human being with another stupid human problem what makes me so special? I always thought that maybe it was because of gender biases, that maybe the guys feel I'm not doing my duty. I tell you I've done some pretty tough jobs and I've always stood on my own two feet and supported myself. I mean if the issue is children, there are enough people in the world and not only that if I ever marry I will be the first to adopt and raise a child. I know I make comments of the sexual nature but I think that I take extra care to not make any of the male sex feel too uncomfortable in the lounge. So really what is it? I honestly might not like the ideas presented here but I want to hear them . . . if no one answers or the statements are too strong and I never come back well it happens.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Xittenn

[Appolinaria]

You're a strong person... to have the courage to go through all of this, to speak up about it on here.. I admire that. I couldn't do it.

 

There's so much more to people than their gender. Be yourself. You deserve to be happy with yourself. It doesn't have anything to do with me. If I want to dye my hair blue, no one should judge me for it. Gender is the same thing. It doesn't really matter. You need better people in your life. There is a whole world out there, with amazing people. Don't pay attention to the jerks.

[Xittenn]

I try not to, but I'm always afraid some dudes going to run me over with his car . . . or some chicky for that matter! I mean it's hard to forget that time I was beaten down in a neighbours driveway with an industrial socket wrench that was two feet long, while there was another guy who was holding a shotgun.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Xittenn

[Appolinaria]

That is absolutely terrible. No one should ever have to experience that. There are a lot of sick people on this planet. But things are slowly getting better.

[Xittenn]

Very true Appolinaria!

[Appolinaria]

People like that need serious help. I hope they're still in jail.

[Xittenn]

I was very young when it happened and they weren't disciplined beyond warnings. Typically I would get beaten and then I would be disciplined for acting out; I was never quite sure how that worked but no one seemed none the different about it. I was between my two parents, they were divorced, and they were never involved so I think a lot went on unnoticed. My parents aren't well educated. At the time they were very young and wouldn't have had a clue what to do anyway. Teenagers and fighting was and still is very common in many Canadian suburbs as I'm sure it is anywhere. Girls here can be just as brutal as the boys so honestly a fight, is a fight, is a fight . . . . in my case they simply felt it was more justified.

[Appolinaria]

Omg... just warnings? Wtf.

 

That's rouuugh.

[Moontanman]

I'm not sure what you mean by transgendered but I see no reason to treat you any different than i would any other person I ran into on the street. My oldest son is gay, one of those no one would suspect unless he told them. He was drummed out of the Air Force ROTC and lost his scholarship due to be outed by some of his friends and beaten severely. I don't see why people feel this way unless they themselves are threatened because they feel an attraction they cannot handle.

 

My son had seen many of his friends thrown out of their family when they "came out" he was terrified I would do the same even though he knew I had gay friends both male and female. I guess the example he had seen in his friends scared him. The fact he was afraid of me bothered me more than anything else. I felt shame because he felt he needed to fear my judgement. Emotions are weird aren't they? I love my sons, both of them are fine young men and i proud of them and their accomplishments.

 

Kids are cruel, they look for differences and then conflate them into reasons to bully and otherwise terrorize others.

 

Adults often carry these cruel childish behaviors into their adult lives and for some reason religion often seems to fan the flames of this behavior. I wish I had some words of wisdom here but for the most part i told my sons, yes both the straight one and the gay one, to be who they are and always be proud of that and to not let others dictate their self worth...

[Xittenn]

I'm not sure what you mean by transgendered

 

I am a genetic XY and have undergone Gender Reassignment Surgery to help me feel more comfortable with my life image. How I see myself, how I emotionally feel about my parental role, and how I interact with others was such that for me my decision made the most sense. As it stands I have never been more comfortable as a human being and the degree of comfort of others with me seems to have improved as well--they better relate to me and are far less likely to interact with me in an awkward manner. People who are not looking for a fight seem to better understand where I'm coming from these days.

[Moontanman]

I am a genetic XY and have undergone Gender Reassignment Surgery to help me feel more comfortable with my life image. How I see myself, how I emotionally feel about my parental role, and how I interact with others was such that for me my decision made the most sense. As it stands I have never been more comfortable as a human being and the degree of comfort of others with me seems to have improved as well--they better relate to me and are far less likely to interact with me in an awkward manner. People who are not looking for a fight seem to better understand where I'm coming from these days.

 

 

Ok, you had said earlier was that you had breasts and had them removed... that confused me, so you were physically male and are now physically female?

[Phi for All]

Sexual orientation does matter in social situations. It affects the way we converse with others, it governs some of the ways we interact and it plays a part in how our normal attractions are displayed.

 

But ultimately, intellectually, sexual orientation shouldn't matter much to people who aren't actively pursuing one another sexually. If it still does, then perhaps there was more desire than at least one side was willing to admit. Does that make sense? Could some of those who beat you have been angry at having their attraction to you somehow betrayed by the truth? I've always wondered what makes someone so angry at LGBT people that they would resort to violence or even disdain. Why does it matter to them so much? Can it really be just peer pressure?

 

It's tragic that we're not educated better at a young age to accept everyone as people, all of us flawed people who need the cooperation of each other to do more than just survive. As Appolinaria mentioned, it's getting better, but slowly, and in too many regions the progress is practically imperceptible.

 

I applaud your courage now for sharing this extremely personal side of your history. I curse those who made you suffer while expecting to be treated fairly themselves. I weep for the Xittenn I know who had to endure all this yet still managed to be an exceptional person.

 

And I jump for joy that you're here with me to learn and teach, sharing what you know and accepting me for my flaws too. Vous êtes magnifique!

[Moontanman]

Sexual orientation does matter in social situations. It affects the way we converse with others, it governs some of the ways we interact and it plays a part in how our normal attractions are displayed.

 

But ultimately, intellectually, sexual orientation shouldn't matter much to people who aren't actively pursuing one another sexually. If it still does, then perhaps there was more desire than at least one side was willing to admit. Does that make sense? Could some of those who beat you have been angry at having their attraction to you somehow betrayed by the truth? I've always wondered what makes someone so angry at LGBT people that they would resort to violence or even disdain. Why does it matter to them so much? Can it really be just peer pressure?

 

It's tragic that we're not educated better at a young age to accept everyone as people, all of us flawed people who need the cooperation of each other to do more than just survive. As Appolinaria mentioned, it's getting better, but slowly, and in too many regions the progress is practically imperceptible.

 

I applaud your courage now for sharing this extremely personal side of your history. I curse those who made you suffer while expecting to be treated fairly themselves. I weep for the Xittenn I know who had to endure all this yet still managed to be an exceptional person.

 

And I jump for joy that you're here with me to learn and teach, sharing what you know and accepting me for my flaws too. Vous êtes magnifique!

 

 

It is weird that the people who seem to most persecute LBTG people are themselves attracted those they want to punish for being attractive. I know there is probably some deep physiological reasoning behind it but that will never make it fair. If you think of it this idea of somehow punishing someone who you are attracted to is deeply ingrained in us as kids (ever notice how little boys hate little girls and they hate boys as well? Most people grow out of this childish behavior) and even as adults some men will be hateful to women who they see as attractive but unattainable or undesirable in some way. Too pretty or too plump or too something, people with an anti social personalty will do this sort of thing. I honestly have no idea why, i think one of the terms used now days is "slut shamming" Hell of a note, you can't win for loosing....

 

I honestly hoped our society was trending away from that disgraceful behavior but over the last 20 years or so i have to admit I was fooling myself, we are diving deeper into that hole.

 

Yes Xittien, I to am glad you are here, you are a human being, no other label is really important but what lies behind your eyes is who you are and where real beauty lives...

[Xittenn]

You guys have no idea how much that means to hear you say that I am welcome. Being welcome is something I don't think I ever really considered possible until you actually just stated it--acceptable maybe, but welcome . . . I appreciate the sentiment. School might be a little less scary today!

[Keenidiot]

So I guess what I want to know is why my existence is so upsetting to people?

 

First, I want to express my sorrow at your story, my admiration of your strength, and my wish that the future is better for you.

 

 

I am one of those people to who was raised in a family that was hostile to homosexuals and the transgendered, and this has left a mark on my behaviour towards people like yourself. It is something I am rather ashamed of.

For myself, it came from religion. I've since moved beyond what I was raised with, and I'm happy that I've been able to help my family move forward as well.

 

It's colored my support of the LGBT community, as I support it even stronger due to my own early hatred and current discomfort with the community which was imparted to me at a young age.

[zapatos]

Xittenn --

 

Yesterday you were one of my favorite people on this site. Today you stand alone in the number one position on my list of favorites.

 

I cannot adequately express the respect and admiration I have for you. I hope my kids can turn out to be as strong as you are.

 

I'm proud to be able to say "I have this friend on SFN named Xittenn...".

 

As for those who have ever made even the slightest move toward doing you wrong, fuck them. If you ever decide it would be fun to, say, cancel their classes at school, glue their car doors shut, hide a dead fish in their garage, etc., count me in. One event a week for the next year might be fun.

 

I'm there for you, in any way I can be.

Edited March 19, 2012 by zapatos

[Xittenn]

It's funny that you all say I'm so brave but it was never something that took me any of my courage. I honestly believed most everyone here had already known, and in terms of me growing up with the issue it was just how I was. If my parents didn't like it well we weren't ever that close to begin with, and in the end they weren't at all affected by it. My mother is a religious nutter, but she is involved with the non-denominational christian church and they tend to be a little more live and let god sort it out--and by this they tend to mean god is forgiving. Actually come to think of it I'm probably so relaxed about it myself because the people I grew up with were very down to earth christian folk quite unlike the stereotype. They did their day to day and attended church on Sundays and enjoyed potluck. I guess what I'm saying is I'm just nobody special and if I ever become someone special I want it to be because I did something special in the sciences, not because I stood up and made a social statement. But again I appreciate the sentiments and I thank you keenidot for seeing things differently and acting accordingly, I'm just a person not a social or economic threat or a threat of any other form for that matter.

[Keenidiot]

But again I appreciate the sentiments and I thank you keenidot for seeing things differently and acting accordingly, I'm just a person not a social or economic threat or a threat of any other form for that matter.

It's people like you who've helped changed my mind. Never forget that.

I'm just a person not a social or economic threat or a threat of any other form for that matter.

Exactly.

 

For whatever reason I am transgendered, I am of the opinion that I was in fact born this way and there is very little that I could have ever done about it. When I was younger boys used to beat the hell out of me because they saw me as a gay who needed to be taught a lesson. I had developed breasts which I had had removed at the age of sixteen even despite my internalized self image issues. Honestly I had wanted to hide it from everybody because being different meant that people would beat me up, humiliate me, and impose on me a life that I would never understand. Although I had a lot of friends in my high school years I kept my issues to myself, I was afraid and alone. My friends knew I had interests in boys but at the same time any mention of this fact was so brief they may have never fully understood. When I began my transition at eighteen I had lost a lot of friends.

 

That despite this, you are continuing to be who you feel you are, is bravery. It is simple acknowledgment to say so.

[ajb]

Well, I had no idea. Not that I should have had, nor does it exactly change my opinions in any way.

 

Very brave move stating it here.

Edited March 20, 2012 by ajb

[Xittenn]

Nobody read the thread about my surgery issue or the few blurbs I posted about my younger years? I know it was mostly the #SFN crowd that was aware but I had thought for sure the FSH thread and the vein thread had raised some flags.

 

Not that anyone should read these but

 

Kin selection and homosexuality

 

Fat Graphs

 

Exposed Veins

 

FSH effects on hair growth

 

 

There were others some more specific some less--like I wouldn't expect anyone to make the connection with fat grafts but. My English has improved substantially, no?

 

I think sometimes my posts go unnoticed . . .

 

No one calls me Sir or he or anything male anymore, I think the breast augmentation did the trick. I must say this final step has seen my life normalize and it has been nice to relax a little.

[Phi for All]

I have to admit that though I read the buttacup threads, I had missed when you changed names to Xittenn. Since name changes are pretty rare, I didn't realize you were buttacup. Forgive me, please.

[Xittenn]

It's a non issue! With respect to my outburst I had reasons to assume there was an 'issue' and I was assured that this was in fact not the case, and so I am truly sorry to everyone for being pissy. I don't expect that people know anything I just ask that if they do and there is an issue that it be kept to the bearer. I opened this thread to give whoever a place to discuss their reasonings about such issues and here would be a great place to voice them, as opposed to in reply to threads where the issue is in fact irrelevant.

 

But yes I was buttacup; also PrettyFlower, Ranunculus, Uncia, JolieFleur, Wuz_Here and so on. . ..

 

. . . some of the names were from chat . . .

[zapatos]

Nobody read the thread about my surgery issue or the few blurbs I posted about my younger years? I know it was mostly the #SFN crowd that was aware but I had thought for sure the FSH thread and the vein thread had raised some flags.

 

Not that anyone should read these but

 

Kin selection and homosexuality

 

Fat Graphs

 

Exposed Veins

 

FSH effects on hair growth

 

 

There were others some more specific some less--like I wouldn't expect anyone to make the connection with fat grafts but. My English has improved substantially, no?

 

I think sometimes my posts go unnoticed . . .

 

No one calls me Sir or he or anything male anymore, I think the breast augmentation did the trick. I must say this final step has seen my life normalize and it has been nice to relax a little.

Those posts were all before my time. And something did the trick as talking to you and looking at your profile picture gave me absolutely no hint of the things you've talked about in this thread. Assuming that was how you hoped to present yourself, I have to say, Nicely Done!

[Marqq]

Glad to see you're getting so much support, but I'm not seeing much of an answer to your question:"why is my existence so upsetting to people?"

People prefer their company to be as similar to themselves as possible. This is not to say we want to hang out with clones of ourselves, imprinted with our own memories, which is getting frighteningly close to possible, but white people tend to be more comfortable around whites, christians with christians, executives with executives, and so on. But it's not just about the comfort level, it's about their own sense of belonging. We tend to desire a place where we fit in, it's part of maintaining a healthy psyche. Having that place where others better understand us, where we don't have to explain the things so many are clueless about, allows us to relax mentally and physically, so we can devote our resources to more interesting topics than introducing unfamiliar identity concepts to people whose identity concepts we're also trying to grasp. We're all just happier on familiar turf, so to speak.

 

Now, I'm sure you've noticed how differently people behave in different circumstances. You could say you're a different person at home than you are at work, or on the bus, or around your family or a particular group of friends. Your changing sense of identity and the perceived expectations of you can drastically affect your behavior, as can be seen in studies of mob mentality and other sociology studies. I would bet (and I'm poor, so that's saying a lot) that you've seen far fewer violent incidents during private interactions than those in semi-public. Those incidents are exaggerations, for the most part, of what you'd experience in private situations, in an attempt to live up the violent party's perceived expectations. In other words, they were just trying to do what they believed their friends (or other observers) expected of someone who is labelled as they are. In one case you mentioned, their belief was confirmed by the slap-on-the-wrist 'warning' response to their behavior. This works in the short-term, too, to immediately escalate what may have been a minor incident, as others join in with similar negative behavior. This is the work of the same pressure you were feeling when you had your breasts reduced-- the fear of ostracism driving you to conform. This fear of ostracism is often called 'insecurity', and extends well beyond the fleeting moments of a particular situation. It's the sort of thing around which a person might shape their primary identity, as a mechanism to latch on to the familiar social environment they understand. That connection is what we threaten by existing. And it's not even that we exist, it's that they feel a certain reaction is expected of them in order to keep that connection. Over time, as they integrate this expectation into their identity, they begin to actually hate. They sit back, unthinkingly, and let the world turn them into monsters, because they feel it's the only way to belong.

 

As to where the bias against LGBTs began in society, before it became ingrained in our cultures, I refer you to this article: The Psychology of Prejudice (small PDF) It explains more deeply how minor differences from 'the norm' become unacceptable and the target of ridicule. It's really not usually as simple as a closet-case acting out.

[MonDie]

I think people need to stop thinking about gender norms. Gender stereotypical behaviors are ingrained in different ways.

I was always rebellious. In highschool, I knew I was probably straight, but I would say things suggestive of homosexuality just to test myself and the people I was talking to. Yet, even I had a tendency to brag because I wanted women to think my dominance was attractive. I didn't even really want to date, but I thought I was supposed to.

I think gender-related conformity is generally detrimental for society as a whole. The idea of dominance being masculine has probably motivated a lot of fools to take the power from people who were motivated by good will, and we've subjugated good-willed people because they weren't masculine.

I hope you will be someone who does more than what they're expected to do.

 

 

As for those who have ever made even the slightest move toward doing you wrong, fuck them. If you ever decide it would be fun to, say, cancel their classes at school, glue their car doors shut, hide a dead fish in their garage, etc., count me in. One event a week for the next year might be fun.

Vengeful impulses put people into risky situations for no good reason. At best, it could be fun.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Mondays Assignment: Die