albertlee Posted November 14, 2004 Posted November 14, 2004 I am quite interesting in this.... in water, there are H+ and OH- being attracted by the partial charges of H2O.... but I never see mere Hydrogen Hydroxide.... Why is that??
premjan Posted November 14, 2004 Posted November 14, 2004 Isn't Hydrogen Hydroxide the same as Water?
albertlee Posted November 14, 2004 Author Posted November 14, 2004 well, yes, but shouldn't it look like solid??? that's why it is interesting... they are both ionic and molecules representing in water...., but more likely they are mostly molecules, and if there are ions....why we dont get the solid water when we evaporate the molecules?? Albert
premjan Posted November 14, 2004 Posted November 14, 2004 I suppose the ions transition back to a molecule if you try to evaporate it. But I don't really know.
jdurg Posted November 14, 2004 Posted November 14, 2004 HOH is NOT ionic. There is no ionic bond whatsoever in there. Zero. Zilch. None. There is a strongly polar covalent bond, but zero ionic bonding. What happens when H+ meets OH- is that they combine and form a polar covalent bond. The bond exhibits covalent properties and not ionic.
budullewraagh Posted November 14, 2004 Posted November 14, 2004 jdurg, have you heard of that theory involving water NOT being h2o?
albertlee Posted November 14, 2004 Author Posted November 14, 2004 since water are just molecules, why can they have ions?? ALbert
DandyGurl Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 Water is ionic due to the bond angles and eletronegativity difference. Otherwise water would be like CO2 .......+ H...H .\./ ..O - CO2 O-C-O Man its hard to draw out molecules in vbulltin...
DandyGurl Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 jdurg, have you heard of that theory involving water NOT being h2o? H and OH just floating around and coming together and apart just in equilibrium to make a pH of 7?
budullewraagh Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 nope, not that actually. i read an article somehwere involving water being a larger molecule than h2o. i'll look for it later when i finish my ap us history paper
DandyGurl Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 nope, not that actually. i read an article somehwere involving water being a larger molecule than h2o. i'll look for it later when i finish my ap us history paper Like hydrogen bonding, holding it together? But that would make ice... Or do you mean like how you can't have a salt molecule (single Na-Cl ) but rather a lattice that makes an ionic solid?
jdurg Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 Water is ionic due to the bond angles and eletronegativity difference. Otherwise water would be like CO2.......+ H...H .\./ ..O - CO2 O-C-O Man its hard to draw out molecules in vbulltin... Water is NOT ionic. If it was, distilled water would carry an electrical current. Also, your drawing of CO2 is incorrect. It should be O=C=O which is nothing like water since water contains no double bonds. The electronegativity difference between hydrogen and oxygen is less than two, so the bond is considered polar covalent. Ionic bonds occur when the electronegativity difference between the two bonding atoms is greater than 2.0. A molecule, however, does not need to be ionic in order to generate ions when placed into a solution or involved in a reaction. Take HCl, HBr, HI, and most other acids, for instance. Those are all covalently bonded molecules, but when placed in solution they form ions.
DandyGurl Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 Water is NOT ionic. If it was, distilled water would carry an electrical current. Also, your drawing of CO2 is incorrect. It should be O=C=O which is nothing like water since water contains no double bonds. The electronegativity difference between hydrogen and oxygen is less than two, so the bond is considered polar covalent. Ionic bonds occur when the electronegativity difference between the two bonding atoms is greater than 2.0. A molecule, however, does not need to be ionic in order to generate ions when placed into a solution or involved in a reaction. Take HCl, HBr, HI, and most other acids, for instance. Those are all covalently bonded molecules, but when placed in solution they form ions. Sorry I ment polar... MY ascii drawing was unclear... I know its = not -
DandyGurl Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 I went to UMASS for chem , Im a bit rusty but I know my elbow from my ass hole... Where is my sergent welch perd. table?
chadn Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 nope, not that actually. i read an article somehwere involving water being a larger molecule than h2o. i'll look for it later when i finish my ap us history paper Could this be it? http://www.aip.org/pnu/2003/split/648-1.html A water molecule's chemical formula is really not H2O, at least from the perspective of neutrons and electrons interacting with the molecule for only attoseconds (1 attosecond=10-18 seconds). According to new and recent experiments, neutrons and electrons colliding with water for just attoseconds will see a ratio of hydrogen to oxygen of roughly 1.5 to 1, so a more Or maybe your thinking of some hydrogen isotopes like deuterium and tritium, in which case the mass would be more.
budullewraagh Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 aha! http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/molecule.html The water molecule is often described in school and undergraduate textbooks of as having four, approximately tetrahedrally arranged, sp3-hybridized electron pairs, two of which are associated with hydrogen atoms leaving the two remaining lone pairs. In a perfect tetrahedral arrangement the bond-bond, bond-lone pair and lone pair-lone pair angles would all be 109.47° and such tetrahedral bonding patterns are found in condensed phases such as hexagonal ice.
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