The 99% Screwed?

[Moontanman]

Does this Sort of thing indicate our political/economic system is corrupt/broken beyond repair?

 

[Sergeant Bilko]

Very apposite, tomorrow, the British government will announce a reduction in income tax for the richest 1% of the population, while at the same time reducing benefits for the poorest.

[Phi for All]

Does this Sort of thing indicate our political/economic system is corrupt/broken beyond repair?

Absolutely not. I don't think it's too late. Very little is beyond repair by extraordinary measures.

 

To me, it's very simple. Business does what it does, which is make money. If they want to do business in our country, they need to abide by the terms of their corporate charter. It's up to our government, and therefore the people of our democracy, to set the standards, rules and regulations by which the corporation can operate.

 

Corporations will always do whatever they can to make more profit. They've been allowed to bend the laws and rules their way for far too long and they must be reined in. We have to strengthen the regs and review the charter system to bring them back in line. Too much of the money they are growing fat on is taxpayer monies, not profits from their normal market business.

 

Of course, they will kick and scream and threaten and bully. We can't listen to their rants, because eventually they'll figure out that it's costing them too much money and they absolutely still want to do business in this country and with our government. So they'll capitulate, and then start scheming all over again on how to grow their profits back.

[Moontanman]

Absolutely not. I don't think it's too late. Very little is beyond repair by extraordinary measures.

 

To me, it's very simple. Business does what it does, which is make money. If they want to do business in our country, they need to abide by the terms of their corporate charter. It's up to our government, and therefore the people of our democracy, to set the standards, rules and regulations by which the corporation can operate.

 

Corporations will always do whatever they can to make more profit. They've been allowed to bend the laws and rules their way for far too long and they must be reined in. We have to strengthen the regs and review the charter system to bring them back in line. Too much of the money they are growing fat on is taxpayer monies, not profits from their normal market business.

 

Of course, they will kick and scream and threaten and bully. We can't listen to their rants, because eventually they'll figure out that it's costing them too much money and they absolutely still want to do business in this country and with our government. So they'll capitulate, and then start scheming all over again on how to grow their profits back.

 

 

Phi for All, I've watched this battle since I first became politically aware, I remember when the religious fundamentalists and the political right mated and gave birth to what we now call neoconservatives. It was an unholy union if there ever was one and that movement courted big business like a whore at a sales convention. Now the religious conservatives, drunk on the money and power from the support of big business who assert that the only possible answer is capitalism unchained, are too powerful to be effectively opposed and these fundamentalists vote republican because god tells them too and they think science and rational thought are a satanic conspiracy... I think we are loosing, loosing badly but I did see a ray of sunshine today, I was in traffic for about 30 minutes and among all the jesus saves and vote for god bumper stickers I actually saw a science before superstition bumper sticker, it looked pretty lonely...

[Phi for All]

Phi for All, I've watched this battle since I first became politically aware, I remember when the religious fundamentalists and the political right mated and gave birth to what we now call neoconservatives. It was an unholy union if there ever was one and that movement courted big business like a whore at a sales convention. Now the religious conservatives, drunk on the money and power from the support of big business who assert that the only possible answer is capitalism unchained, are too powerful to be effectively opposed and these fundamentalists vote republican because god tells them too and they think science and rational thought are a satanic conspiracy... I think we are loosing, loosing badly but I did see a ray of sunshine today, I was in traffic for about 30 minutes and among all the jesus saves and vote for god bumper stickers I actually saw a science before superstition bumper sticker, it looked pretty lonely...

Well, you're in an area that makes better barbecue than rational thoughts. In many big cities, cities large enough to have colleges and universities (that aren't religiously affiliated) there are great numbers of better educated people who have learned to look rationally at our society. This is where the intellectual revolution needs to start, but we need better media outlets and a leader who has no ties to corporate concerns.

 

In Denver proper, I see a lot of hopeful bumper stickers:

 

If You Want a Nation Ruled By Religion, Move to Iran.

 

Let's Fix Democracy in this Country First.

 

Of Course It Hurts: You're Getting Screwed by the Elephants!

[Moontanman]

Well, you're in an area that makes better barbecue than rational thoughts.

 

Hehehe, as people around here say, "you got that right"...

 

In many big cities, cities large enough to have colleges and universities (that aren't religiously affiliated) there are great numbers of better educated people who have learned to look rationally at our society. This is where the intellectual revolution needs to start, but we need better media outlets and a leader who has no ties to corporate concerns.

 

Maybe he will arrive on an alien space craft...

 

In Denver proper, I see a lot of hopeful bumper stickers:

 

If You Want a Nation Ruled By Religion, Move to Iran.

 

Let's Fix Democracy in this Country First.

 

Of Course It Hurts: You're Getting Screwed by the Elephants!

 

It's disheartening to live here and try to be progressive, being an atheist is almost illegal... and I live in a relatively liberal city, a university town... My oldest son who is gay lives in Chapel Hill/Cary area (actually Cary = Containment Area for Retired Yankees) as does my youngest son. It is more progressive there due to several universities in the area but make no mistake is it still part of NC and subject to the inane silliness that is southern politics... and the NC conservative right is aware of the communist liberal university agenda, i hear about it incessantly...

[toastywombel]

I would agree with Moontaman to an extent. While I don't think the religious right is particularly winning the "culture war" so to speak, big business continues to rule with an iron fist. Our entire government is controlled by the wealthiest Americans. Any candidate that is up for election is backed by the same corporations. They are all figureheads representing the same pro-business agenda. The progressive agenda seems so distorted as well. In ways becoming exactly what it sought out to combat. I really don't know anymore, but what I do know is that we are heading towards a world where the wealthiest are in control, privacy and freedom are trivial, and such control is applied by acts of subversion not democracy. I really cannot see how the power structure can be toppled. I am slowly starting to accept that the fate of our world will be the similar to that of the utopia described in 1984. For nearly all of human history there has been a pattern of power being consolidated. While there have been cultural, physical, and intellectual revolutions, nearly all of these achievements have been twisted and/or dwarfed by those with money and influence.

 

I believe this is our worlds fate and within our lifetimes it may very well become a reality.

[JustinW]

toasty,

 

I find that your last post is wrong in at least one fundamental way. When throughout history have the poor been in charge? The wealthiest have always been in charge in every civilization

[toastywombel]

toasty,

 

I find that your last post is wrong in at least one fundamental way. When throughout history have the poor been in charge? The wealthiest have always been in charge in every civilization

 

When did I ever argue the poor have been in charge? I didn't even mention the demographic you were referring to, "the poor". I think you are simply looking to bait an argument.

 

Furthermore,

 

The wealthiest have always been in charge in every civilization

 

I think you would be hard-pressed to prove such a statement. I can think of several examples where this isn't the case.

Edited March 30, 2012 by toastywombel

[mississippichem]

It's disheartening to live here and try to be progressive, being an atheist is almost illegal... and I live in a relatively liberal city, a university town... My oldest son who is gay lives in Chapel Hill/Cary area (actually Cary = Containment Area for Retired Yankees) as does my youngest son. It is more progressive there due to several universities in the area but make no mistake is it still part of NC and subject to the inane silliness that is southern politics... and the NC conservative right is aware of the communist liberal university agenda, i hear about it incessantly...

 

Same problem down here in Mississippi except for to the (n+1)nth power. I live in a relatively progressive city as far as MS/AL/LA go. But I'm sure that my city is still WAY more conservative and deeply religious than even the more conservative of the cites in the northeastern seaboard. Down here you can almost use churches as a geographic guide***.

 

People in my state are, for the most part, not even willing to consider any alternative political view. If you ask what their opposition to a single payer system is, you just get told that it's socialism and socialism=evil.

 

I consider myself somewhat moderate though I can be quite liberal on some things and quite conservative on others. Even that is not good enough for much of the local social scene here.

 

I speculate that in this country we will continue to see a growing difference in the political and religious beliefs of the major urban centers and the rural states. As has been said earlier in this thread, the neoconservatives have the unprecedented advantage of being in bed with both big business and evangelical Christianity.

 

***How do you get to the grocery store? "Take a left at First Baptist Church then a right at United Methodist. It's the first building on the right next to the Pentecostal Tabernacle."

[JustinW]

toasty,

 

When did I ever argue the poor have been in charge? I didn't even mention the demographic you were referring to, "the poor". I think you are simply looking to bait an argument.

No not really, but the way you said "we are heading for a world where the wealthiest are in control" seemed to imply that it hasn't always been so. And maybe I said poor wrong. Maybe I should have said the slightly less wealthy? Or the "not so poor, but definately not the wealthiest"? I'm fairly decent at baiting an argument, but this was not the case. I was just pointing out how your assertion was wrong in my opinion.

 

 

I think you would be hard-pressed to prove such a statement. I can think of several examples where this isn't the case.

Name 2.

 

 

Mississippi,

 

I speculate that in this country we will continue to see a growing difference in the political and religious beliefs of the major urban centers and the rural states.

It's just one of them things that change with the times. I've heard it said that todays moderate republicans are just pre-60's moderate democrats with a new name. I don't know how true this is, but it goes to show you how things flow with the times and politics change with the situation.

[toastywombel]

No not really, but the way you said "we are heading for a world where the wealthiest are in control" seemed to imply that it hasn't always been so. And maybe I said poor wrong. Maybe I should have said the slightly less wealthy? Or the "not so poor, but definately not the wealthiest"? I'm fairly decent at baiting an argument, but this was not the case. I was just pointing out how your assertion was wrong in my opinion.

 

My point, which may have needed to be more clear, was that power is being ever more consolidated to the wealthiest. Example the United States government and corporate power structure has more control over United States citizens and the land it governs than Napoleon ever had over France, or Hitler ever had over Germany, or Ivan ever had over Russia.

 

Name 2.

 

Many Native American Tribes did not believe in the concept of ownership, but it is your job to prove your point, not mine to disprove it. You said,

 

The wealthiest have always been in charge in every civilization

 

I simply responded by saying that would be impossible to prove.

Edited March 30, 2012 by toastywombel