I have a hard time getting along with God

[Realitycheck]

Re: A ways back. You can't

forget that if Adam and eve had

obeyed and never ate of the fruit, man would still be naked, living like the animals.

[questionposter]

I couldn't say god doesn't exist, but I can say that it is unlikely that god is so kind and compassionate if old doctrines accurately depict it.

[immortal]

I understand that. The compelling reasons to persist with theistic ideology are often, at their best, still quite faulted... and interpreted by some Bob (self-proclaimed man of God) to reflect modern minds with a genuine appearance. Would you like to talk about Bob's appealing words of religion with regards to philosophy, metaphysics, science, psychology etc? Lets see how much of its nonsense and how much can stand. Note: That would mean highjacking the topic, so send a Personal Message to me instead.

 

Okay will do.

 

Religion and science are of a different magisteria, no true genuine theist will ever talk about science and psychology in his scholarly works, he talks about the kingdom of God not the material world of science, the reasons for persisting with theistic ideology is that these two different magisteria conclude the same thing about the nature of reality.

 

 

Like what Bob says about oral traditions. Don't expect anyone to consider it.

 

The Holy Scriptures + oral traditions by itself cannot be an evidence for anything but Holy scriptures + oral traditions --> revelations. If one tradition claimed to had revelations about unicorns and an another claimed about Bugs Bunny then we could have safely ignored them as rubbish but if the majority of the world's religion's oral traditions + revelations claimed to have observed the same thing again and again over thousands of years then that needs an explanation and a clear cut investigation is required. I never claimed that I have positive evidence for God, I said I want to investigate it.

 

I cannot convince anyone to believe in God with just the Holy scriptures + oral traditions, unless you have revelations you'll be skeptical about it, even theists cannot make up their minds on it and convince themselves but Holy scriptures + oral traditions form the highest authority while discussing religion among theists, if you reject the very basis of those things then its pointless to argue about religion.

 

If you expect genuine theists to back up their every claim with demonstrable evidence in the objective world then that requires time but I completely disagree with you for saying that a theistic ideology is ridiculous, its not, theologians do care about intellectual honesty and are very rational and their arguments have merit on its own right.

[immortal]

@immortal

 

Who the hell are men of God?

 

Men who know God and who have the ability to show the kingdom of God to others are 'men of God'.

 

Was Jesus even God?

 

In Valentinian theology divinity exists in everything, all is God, humans, angels and just everything.

 

--edit--

You quoted something I just scrapped. I'll put it back for readers' sake.

 

If? The Bible. Goal of the Bible. Which Bible? Interpretations. What interpretations? Bob is a man of God more than Jim. Bob is the authority. Bob's interpretations are correct. Bob is a man of God because his interpretations seem to make sense to me more than Jim, and I've just never really appealed to what Jim has ever said, because it all "sounds" like baloney and obviously Bob's got the stuff it takes. Note: Bob's a good guy, I've known him my whole life and he's intrigued me by his apparently legitimate information. Jim is a liar! But Bob... Bob is a man of God! (note: Jill has no chance either, she's a woman.)

----

 

You edited this post after I replied to it but you failed to notify me about it.

 

They keep dropping pickles in my apple juice. This is not good.

 

I guess I have already explained that in my PM by giving rational reasons as to how that worldview has the potential of being real.

 

wtf

 

The Self- knowledge of God won't turn the earth into heaven instead it gives a way to fulfill and carry out God's work with out under going any suffering, that's the difference between free men and those who are in bondage.

 

 

I'm talking metaphysical truths here and they doesn't necessarily have to be true. Its hypothetical.

[Green Xenon]

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Edited April 2, 2012 by Green Xenon

[Ben Banana]

You edited this post after I replied to it but you failed to notify me about it.

I wasn't aware that anyone had replied yet. Sorry.

[Superfusion]

God has the following duties:

 

1. Heal all existing SDD [suffering, Destruction, and Death]

 

2. Prevent any future SDD

 

Since none of the above happens, either God is being a jerk and not doing his job OR he simply doesn't exist.

 

I was once watching an Adam & Eve cartoon. The serpant lures the couple into a tree to eat a forbidden fruit. They do exactly that. God then punished the couple because they could've resisted. God also punished the serpant [which I don't understand]. Adam & Eve chose, out of their own free will to give into temptation -- the couple then experience the negative results of their actions.

 

I completely understand why God punished Adam & Eve. They chose to do wrong, so they were punished. However, I don't AT ALL understand why God punished the serpant. The serpant did not have any free will. The serpant was under complete control of God. God made the serpant do wrong and then punished the serpant. God could've prevented the serpant from tempting the couple, but God chose not to. God made the serpant do wrong, then he punished it. I think it would have be more logical for God to have prevent the serpant from luring the couple rather than allowing the crime to happen and then punishing the serpant after the fact. This causes me to view God as troublemaker who like to punish others for his own actions.

 

Also, I have no choice but to believe that since God has all power, he most likely misuses it for his own sick pleasure -- just like the kings/queens of human history did.

 

This is why I have such a hard time showing any respect for God. After all, I believe in justice. I hate -- with a passion -- any cold-hearted entity who knowingly/willingly misuses his/her/its power just for the fun of it.

 

God is no better than a schoolyard bully or a dominant prison inmate who gains cold-hearted pleasure and dark humor from victimizing the weaker.

 

If God exists, then all physically-existing entities are his helpless victims. If God does not exist, he is simply a figment of my imagination who I choose to hold responsible for any SDD experienced in physical reality.

 

When good happens, God still exists but the good happens because God fails in making or allowing bad to happen. In this case, I verbally tease-God in a puerile manner and chant in a ring-around-the-rosy tune, "ha ha God, I won you, I won you"

 

If something bad happens and it's not the fault of a human, then it's God's fault. In this case, I curse God with extremely obscene language such as the 4-letter-F-word.

 

In any case, I believe God is the ultimate oppressor. I try to test his lack-of-physical-existence by insulting him as much as possible, whenever he pisses me off. God does exist but he is free from the restrictions of the laws of physics [such as my most hated 2nd-law-of-thermodynamics]. I feel jealous of him, that he is capable of overriding physical limitations while the physical universes are oppressed by them.

 

When I'm in a bad mood, I believe that God and his angels are on opposite terms. The angels want to end SDD but God [being the cruel cold-heart he is] doesn't let them. When any angel tries to eliminate SDD, God punishes that angel.

 

I'm on the angels' side and against God.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the devil but I'd take a gazillion devils over one God. The devil and God are both evil but God is more powerful than the devil, so I hate God much more than I hate the devil. If you are physically-invincible and have unlimited power, you should use it to end SDD -- if you don't then you are an evil sadist.

 

If a human knowingly and willingly does bad deeds, God is not at fault. On the other hand, if I bite my tongue while eating, it IS God's fault and I say "f*** God". If I can't blame a person, I blame God.

 

Okay first its not Gods job to prevent SDD or heal them. We are his creation.. He created the world, I mean he is god! How can he possibly do wrong? He cant. Everything he does it perfection. Everything he does has a good reason. And we are here to prove that we can maintain faith in our God and our savior Jesus Christ. So far it is proving that we cannot do so. But hope still lingers for humanity, Don't rant about god not being bound by the laws of physics because he created them. God has no job, He cant slack. He is God.. Whatever he does is right, And anyone who thinks that he has wronged you is wrong. God has not forsaken you, You have forsaken God. I guess because of the lack of education about everything god expresses in his beautiful piece of literature and poetry based on real history called the bible.

 

I didnt mean to post it twice i was just trying to edit peace to piece of literature called the bible

[Moontanman]

Okay first its not Gods job to prevent SDD or heal them. We are his creation.. He created the world, I mean he is god! How can he possibly do wrong? He cant. Everything he does it perfection. Everything he does has a good reason. And we are here to prove that we can maintain faith in our God and our savior Jesus Christ. So far it is proving that we cannot do so. But hope still lingers for humanity, Don't rant about god not being bound by the laws of physics because he created them. God has no job, He cant slack. He is God.. Whatever he does is right, And anyone who thinks that he has wronged you is wrong. God has not forsaken you, You have forsaken God. I guess because of the lack of education about everything god expresses in his beautiful piece of literature and poetry based on real history called the bible.

 

I didnt mean to post it twice i was just trying to edit peace to piece of literature called the bible

 

 

I have no problem with god but his fan club is annoying as hell....

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

 

- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

[doG]

We are his creation.. He created the world, I mean he is god!

Whoa there, backup. That's a positive assertion. Please provide supporting evidence.

[Superfusion]

I have no problem with god but his fan club is annoying as hell....

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

 

- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

 

First i would like to clairify that i am not a "fan". Thats what you call the hippocrits that walk around declaring themselves christians but do nothing to show it. And to adress that. Again, You are adressing him in the context as if he can do evil or any wrong. Again he is god and he cannot do you or anyone/anything wrong. He is both and able and willing but he allows it to happen because he is willing to let you make your own decisions. You prove that you care enough for him to sacrafice evil in the name of righteousness.

 

Whoa there, backup. That's a positive assertion. Please provide supporting evidence.

 

I am speaking in the direction of the creator of the thread, In the true assumption that a god is real and i am simply replying to what he said.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Let's not get into a discussion of the proof of God's existence in this thread. That's off-topic. Create another thread if you'd like, or resurrect any of the many others.

[doG]

First remember its called faith for a reason.

Faith is a mental disease!

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Moontanman, use some self restraint. Superfusion, please do not ignore requests to stop derailing this thread. There are quite a large number of threads on the existence of God, so go posit your thoughts there or start a new discussion.

Also, doG, our Philosophy and Religion rules state that "disagreements about beliefs should never be in the form of attacks on the believers". Calling faith a mental disease is little more than an inflammatory remark and it won't be tolerated.

[Moontanman]

Faith is a mental disease!

 

 

There is some evidence to back this up, infectious meme is what i would call it but the religious often use the idea of other religions being insanity.

 

http://mysite.verizon.net/wsbainbridge/dl/relinsan.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion

 

Insanity is a difficult word to define except when it is being applied to others, i have been told i am insane because i don't believe.

 

If religion affects you in a way that inter fears with your ability to function in society in a reasonable manner I would have no problem labeling it as such, the knocks at my door that occur on a regular basis to bring me the good news even though i tell them I am not interested bring to mind the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

 

I live in the middle of the bible belt in the USA it's quite possible my own experiences with these people have colored my experiences but I think a reasonable impartial judge would label a significant number of them in need of medication of some sort...

 

As i have said before, god doesn't bother me, either he is non existent or he ignores every one equally but his fan club is a scary bunch and until Christianity was gelded by secular governments they killed people who were Christians but disagreed with there more powerful denominations only slightly less often than they killed people of totally different religions... only our secular form of government protects us from that being the standard today....

[immortal]

If religion is just a secular add on holding some dogmatic blind faith then it is more than a mental disease, it is a disease of the world.

 

The Jews consider themselves holy, believers in Islam think that all other Holy books are corrupted and only the Koran represent the word of God in its true form, the middle class of Hindus fall into the hands of men who practice astrology and tantric practices and lose all their earnings, Sikhs give up their important rational decisions of their lives into the hands of their Holy Book, Christians believe Jesus is the mediator to send their message to God for their committed sins.

 

If the idea of a God is based on blind faith then its better to drop that idea rather than holding on to such irrational practices and have such extreme dogmatic beliefs.

 

Its philosophy isn't it, if a belief in God is not useful and falsifiable then what's the point in investing our time in such metaphysical concepts like God.

 

If God is not real it serves more good for humanity if we invest our time on material things rather than wasting our time on irrational blind beliefs which causes a great deal of problems in the world.

 

So an idea of God shouldn't be based on blind faith, it should be based on reasonable faith so that when the evidence is given to you, you should drop the idea of God and concentrate on things which you need to do in this world.

[doG]

!

Moderator Note

Also, doG, our Philosophy and Religion rules state that "disagreements about beliefs should never be in the form of attacks on the believers". Calling faith a mental disease is little more than an inflammatory remark and it won't be tolerated.

It wasn't posted as an attack, it's a fact. It directly interferes with the basic instinct to survive in the afflicted. Some die from handling poisonous snakes because they believe their faith will protect them, it doesn't. Some die from drinking poison because they believe their faith will protect them, it doesn't. There are those in the path of danger with the warning to evacuate or evade the approaching danger but they stand their ground and pray believing their faith will protect them, it doesn't. Some walk on fire in a manner that gets them injured because they believe faith will protect them, it doesn't. For all of these people faith interferes with their ability to reason rationally and directly overrides the basic instinct to survive. For these people it is certainly a mental disorder.

Edited April 5, 2012 by doG

[Superfusion]

It wasn't posted as an attack, it's a fact. It directly interferes with the basic instinct to survive in the afflicted. Some die from handling poisonous snakes because they believe their faith will protect them, it doesn't. Some die from drinking poison because they believe their faith will protect them, it doesn't. There are those in the path of danger with the warning to evacuate or evade the approaching danger but they stand their ground and pray believing their faith will protect them, it doesn't. Some walk on fire in a manner that gets them injured because they believe faith will protect them, it doesn't. For all of these people faith interferes with their ability to reason rationally and directly overrides the basic instinct to survive. For these people it is certainly a mental disorder.

 

It is not their faith that they believe directly will protect them, They believe that their god will. And that is not promised and snake handling is a very small branch from christianity and there is a reason why. They go in knowing there are dangers they arent fools. They know they arent invisible and can be killed.

[Green Xenon]

God stinks like human kakaa. God is human kakaa. Stinky god. Smelly god.

 

Eew! Pee-yoo god! U stink! U stink like the human-kakaa that results from the human eating human-kakaa that results from the human eating human-kakaa <insert infinite repetitions of "that results from the human eating human-kakaa">

[Mosheh Thezion]

A HARD TIME GETTING ALONG WITH GOD????????

 

I WOULD SAY....

 

"God gives us life, and the will to live it, but after that does not get much involved, and you SHOULD NOT EXPECT HIM TOO."

 

We have free will... freedom to choose... if god got involved with everything, everyday.. then we wouldn't have free will.

 

You cannot have it both ways.

 

God, as our heavenly father, wants us to prosper on our own, just as YOU WOULD WANT FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

 

-Mosheh Thezion

[seriously disabled]

Too bad that Superman is not God, if he only existed I mean.

 

I'll take this kind of God over any other God, if only he existed and was real and not just human imagination. Superman stands for justice, fairness and he fights to save human life in any way possible. He is a far better God than either Yahweh or Satan and I think he owns both of them in terms of physical strength and other capabilities such as with his heat vision and his impossibly high speed.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Reeve

Edited April 10, 2012 by seriously disabled