Why we need mandatory global birth-control

[Green Xenon]

http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-warn-emergency-global-scale-185118563.html

 

Perhaps scientists need to develop a way in which all existing humans will be capable of theoretically-surviving forever. At the same time, these scientists need to invent a virus that will infect and kill all human sperm and egg cells.

 

Here would be the results:

 

1. Any human who is alive will never die of "natural causes"

2. No new human will be conceived

 

Biologically, all humans will forever be 31-years-old.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Green Xenon

[ecoli]

all existing humans will be capable of theoretically-surviving forever. At the same time, these scientists need to invent a virus that will infect and kill all human sperm.

Having offspring is the evolutionary equivalent of living forever.

 

I agree with the first part though, disagree with the second.

[Green Xenon]

Having offspring is the evolutionary equivalent of living forever.

 

I agree with the first part though, disagree with the second.

 

Why not override evolution and eliminate the stress of offspring while continuing to live your own life for as long as science allows?

Edited March 30, 2012 by Green Xenon

[mississippichem]

Why not override evolution and eliminate the stress of offspring while continuing to live your own life for as long as science allows?

 

Many people enjoy raising children. Some bad apples just need to die as well.

 

For the record I have no children, and probably shouldn't as I can barely take care of myself .

[ecoli]

Why not override evolution and eliminate the stress of offspring while continuing to live your own life for as long as science allows?

 

Having children is a personal and, for some a rewarding, choice.

 

That being said, overriding evolution by not having children is like overriding gravity by flying in an airplane: the rules apply even if you don't realize it.

[Green Xenon]

Some bad apples just need to die as well.

 

Why not make these "apples" good with some science?

 

Having children is a personal and, for some a rewarding, choice.

 

It's also a drain on the ecosystem. Think about the innocent non-human forms of sentient-life [such as non-human mammals] who suffer because of ignorant humans who reproduce without regulation.

 

That being said, overriding evolution by not having children is like overriding gravity by flying in an airplane: the rules apply even if you don't realize it.

 

By "rules", are you referring the the second law of thermodynamics?

[mississippichem]

Why not make these "apples" good with some science?

 

I'm not opposed to that general notion.

[Schrödinger's hat]

One point is that adult humans are bad at adapting their thought patterns. Society could easily get stuck in a rut. Whether this is viewed as a bad thing is more subjective.

Another point is accidents. Even if we live forever, with no population growth, accidents could be bad. Catastrophe even more so if the technology to reverse the infertility is destroyed.

 

A much less intrusive method of population control is greater levels of education. In areas with high levels of education (esp. of women) population growth slows or even goes negative.

[the tree]

Having offspring is the evolutionary equivalent of living forever.

Why not override evolution and eliminate the stress of offspring while continuing to live your own life for as long as science allows?

Because evolution's solution is a lot better than anything we've ever come up with. The problem is that things will always fall apart eventually, entropy increases, nothing should last forever and that's sort of built into the universe. We can patch things up or whatever. But things that make new things, with adaptation to a varying environment, we haven't found a better solution.

[Ben Banana]

Edit:

oops. I completely misread the topic.

 

----

In suspicion that these discussions inevitably curb somewhere much more interesting than such an immediate and dry conclusion of 'birth control' I recommended writing a science fiction book. No one thought that would be a good idea? I think a lot of good ideas and principles could be introduced by such an imaginative fiction. That would enable you to seriously think: what would people do, and what would they be like, if humans could 'live forever' ? Mandatory birth control is not a careful prediction of how we would respond, its just too obvious.

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/64739-would-the-world-governments-tell-us-if-the-biggest-killer-disease-could-be-cured/page__view__findpost__p__662309

 

Regarding society's reaction, there are so many possibilities. Oh... it would be so interesting! I'm talking about vastly changing psychology, insanely different (but interesting) societal models and perhaps the pursuit of building artificial worlds and other uncannily great technology (immortality, by its very definition, is uncanny anyway, ha!)

 

Would it necessarily impose sacrifices on future humanity? Don't claim that it would. We would be fundamentally different.

 

The problem is that things will always fall apart eventually, entropy increases, nothing should last forever and that's sort of built into the universe.

Extending thoughts:

 

If our bodies were enabled virtual immortality, I think its more likely that the event of death would be self-invoked. Ultimately, a mental conclusion rather than physical. Where will our brains go? To a technical order, virtual immortality is unpredictable unless it is understood. I know nothing regarding its plausibility. Remember, it should be treated as science fiction. Without definitive prepositions, we can do little but merely speculate.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Ben Bowen

[Ben Banana]

Edit:

oops. I completely misread the topic.

Oh wait, no I didn't.

 

Culprit: http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-warn-emergency-global-scale-185118563.html

 

That compelled for such zeal? I briefly believed you were actually talking about something else. I'm not disputing the subject here, but I'm surprised this 'Yahoo news' has you so compelled. Dumbfounding. This is the news section, its meant for ridicule & review, but you shared only one very brittle conclusion.

 

Perhaps scientists need to develop a way in which all existing humans will be capable of theoretically-surviving forever. At the same time, these scientists need to invent a virus that will infect and kill all human sperm and egg cells.

How could this have any affect on the problems which the vague Yahoo news article tells about?

 

Here would be the results:

 

1. Any human who is alive will never die of "natural causes"

2. No new human will be conceived

 

Biologically, all humans will forever be 31-years-old.

Pathetic analysis. And yet, you still fail to demonstrate how this has any correlation to the condition of Earth's biosphere.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Ben Bowen

[John Cuthber]

"Biologically, all humans will forever be 31-years-old. "

Bollocks.

Nothing about any of the suggestions you made will make me less than 46.

Among the many aspects of my biology is my memory and I have more than 31 years of memory.

 

 

In any event, wiping out our ability to increase our population is dumb, given that some future circumstance may reduce our population to a point less than that needed for sensible biodiversity.

[Anvar]

Is there a proved method to choose individuals who deserve to be immortalized? People are of varying quality, both physiclly and mentally. I don't see an expert to decide how to evaluate human quality except a computer.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Anvar

[Mosheh Thezion]

The entire idea.... is horrific... we do not need population controls... we need a better economic system to allow our numbers to expand.. and expand.. and the technology we need... is space travel... so that we can fill the heavens will humans...

NOT... STAY HERE.. AND KILL ALL BABIES...

gesh...

babies are an asset... and we need more to launch to the stars... and evolve.... evolve.. into all we can be over the next trillion years across the galaxies.... all of them

 

-Mosheh Thezion

 

 

[Moontanman]

The entire idea.... is horrific... we do not need population controls... we need a better economic system to allow our numbers to expand.. and expand.. and the technology we need... is space travel... so that we can fill the heavens will humans...

NOT... STAY HERE.. AND KILL ALL BABIES...

gesh...

babies are an asset... and we need more to launch to the stars... and evolve.... evolve.. into all we can be over the next trillion years across the galaxies.... all of them

 

-Mosheh Thezion

 

 

Excuse me, where does it say birth control equals killing babies?

[Mosheh Thezion]

Excuse me, where does it say birth control equals killing babies?

 

ok.. good point.. but still mandatory sterilization is as bad as..... next they will want to castrate all men for our own good.

horrific.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anvar]

The entire idea is not horrific but sane and carefully elaborated. Is a human the best molecular structure to be expanded to the whole universe? I doubt very much.

[Mosheh Thezion]

The entire idea is not horrific but sane and carefully elaborated. Is a human the best molecular structure to be expanded to the whole universe? I doubt very much.

 

Umm... is there a better species?

should we just kill ourselves because we think we are un-worthy?

 

perhaps... you have self esteem problems... I do not know.

 

I would think, we are the best we have, and even if we are not... WE... ARE WE... and by nature... should defend our survival and seek our expansion.

 

evolution... could... take care of improving us... over billions of years... but for that... to become better... we must survive.. and evolve.

evolution... requires babies... lots of babies.

 

Death... is something we would all like to avoid.

Babies.. and population expansion is not something to avoid.

 

 

 

 

 

[Anvar]

Umm... is there a better species?

perhaps... you have self esteem problems... I do not know.

 

I have no self esteem problems but I am not ambitious. I presume personal remarks are irrelevant here.

Robots might be better structures than humans to be evolved and expanded. Humans are tightly bonded to the Earth and its environment and must be significantly modified to live outside the planet.

[Purephysics]

This is certainly an interesting topic, and I would agree in some parts to "structuring" the evolution of the human species.

Unfortunately in our "new world" we have negated ecolutions good effects; like breeding out hereditary decease and/or disorder by weakening the strain over hundreds of years, physical disfigurements, and mental disorders.

We are animals, we should chose the strongest mate to breed the strongest offspring. But, we are also too accepting of such defects in a mate (when usually we wouldn't be, the skinny runt of a pack animal doesn't get a mate, for a good reason). Thus we continue to breed these defects into out blood lines, so we are stalling natural evolution in a way.

 

But playing god by 'choosing' who should be allowed to breed is a little drastic. You may have a differed opinion on someone than another person, a freind or family member of yours may be deemed "unsuitable" by the powers, but to you there is nothing wrong.

Who are we all to judge someone on their attributes? Stephen Hawking may have a defective body, but what a mind he posseses... such is the problem.

 

We must start at evolutionary base level and look at our mates, and perhaps be less tolerant of defects if we are to improve our species.

[Anvar]

A somewhat backward approach to the human race improvement I reckon.

 

A straightforward (and drastic in some respects) way is to genetically modify our offsprings in order to eliminate hereditary diseases and to improve mental and body abilities.

 

The approach might dramatically change the whole declining situation in a short period of time.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Since this has never really been a discussion of the news story, moving to politics

[questionposter]

Even if people don't live forever, if you look at the current birth rates, we need global birth control anyway.

[JohnB]

Gee, even Eugenics gets a revival in the race for demented ideas to "save the planet".

 

Anvar seems to want to create some sort of super race, an "Ubermenschen" perhaps? Same old psychotic dreams just given a new name and a coat of green paint.

 

The answer is the same now as it was in the 1940s. "Lock and Load".

[Green Xenon]

Umm... is there a better species?

should we just kill ourselves because we think we are un-worthy?

 

perhaps... you have self esteem problems... I do not know.

 

I would think, we are the best we have, and even if we are not... WE... ARE WE... and by nature... should defend our survival and seek our expansion.

 

evolution... could... take care of improving us... over billions of years... but for that... to become better... we must survive.. and evolve.

evolution... requires babies... lots of babies.

 

Death... is something we would all like to avoid.

Babies.. and population expansion is not something to avoid.

 

I don't know about you but I, for one:

 

1. Care about the non-human entities of the world, universe, and multiverses

 

2. Want my parents and siblings to live forever and with the medical advantages of most 31-year-old humans [strength, energy, intelligence, ability to think clearly, etc.]. Since I believe in fairness, I want to extend this theoretical immortality and "healthiness" to non-family members as well.

 

3. Think giving birth to new humans is distressful. So is having to change their kakaa-filled diapers. So is having to raise them with properly. Most distressing, is the effects of human-reproduction on the non-human environment. So many non-human forms of life are suffering and dying because humans are exercising their right to reproduce.

 

So, my wish is for all humans who are currently alive to stay alive and robust forever BUT for no new human to ever be conceived.

 

The goal here is "survival, health, and comfort withOUT reproduction". Be chronologically-3,100 years old and at the same time biologially-31 years old. Enjoy the fruits of life without the falls.

 

Let's also be fair to non-human animals with psyches and provide these creatures with the hypothetical ability to survive & thrive [eternally] without harboring the physical and mental anguishes of reproduction.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Green Xenon