My hypothesis of the ultimate fate of Universe

[R A J A]

What would be the fate or the future of our universe? Will it expand to infinity? Or stop expanding or start to contract? My thoughts joining space time, expanding universe and black holes led me to think of a new idea about the future of the universe. Let me explain it.

 

Lets start with space time. Albert Einstein's theory explains to consider about a fabric like a trampoline as space time. And any body with mass would create a curve in this fabric which any other body near to it is attracted to it like a whirlpool. And black holes are the remnants of giant stars which is collapsed to a point because of excessive gravity. So a black hole in this space time would create not just a curve but a log tunnel like well!!! So now you've got what is space time and about b black hole in space time. Now lets talk about the reality. We know that the universe is expanding, so the space time of our universe should also be expanding. So we understood that space time is stretchable. Is it infinitely stretchable? There is my prediction. Space time is not infinitely expandable, because like the nature's limit which we can't go faster than the speed of light, there would be a limit for space time to expand. It would be after billions of years later that all galaxies would be swallowed by the block holes seen in the center of the galaxies and these black holes would join together to form a mega black hole. So at this time, both space and time would be stretched by the mega black hole (the black hole stretches the space time by the long well-like curves in the space time created by its excessive mass) and by expanding universe. When it stops to stretch further, the universe won't be able to expand further and would start to contract to the black hole. When it reaches the limit of contraction, the universe would be a point which would be infinitely hot and massive and would burst and start to expand which is called the big bang..........

 

So I conclude that when the space time or universe reaches the limit of stretching or the expansion, it would start to contract because of the deep curve created by the mega black hole and would come to a point called singularity, when it can't further contract, it explodes and starts to expand again. So there would be time before the big bang we know.................

 

 

[PLEASE THINK ON MY THEORY AND CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG AND I ALSO REQUEST YOU TO PROMOTE MY THEORY]

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Moved to speculations. R A J A, please be mindful of where you are posting. The science forums are for mainstream science, speculative material is to be posted in speculations.

[R A J A]

!

Moderator Note

Moved to speculations. R A J A, please be mindful of where you are posting. The science forums are for mainstream science, speculative material is to be posted in speculations.

 

But I posted the topic in Astronomy and Cosmology section because it is related to Cosmology.

[immortal]

But I posted the topic in Astronomy and Cosmology section because it is related to Cosmology.

 

Your pet theories and hypotheses belong here in the speculations forum, once they have been tested and accepted as a valid scientific model only then you can post such a content in the mainstream forum.

[Phi for All]

But I posted the topic in Astronomy and Cosmology section because it is related to Cosmology.

You wouldn't want a student to come across your idea in a section he trusted to help him with his Astronomy exam, would you?

[R A J A]

Your pet theories and hypotheses belong here in the speculations forum, once they have been tested and accepted as a valid scientific model only then you can post such a content in the mainstream forum.

 

So could anyone see my theory now?

[ACG52]

We can certainly see your post.

 

I don't see a theory there.

[R A J A]

We can certainly see your post.

 

I don't see a theory there.

 

I mean a hypothesis by a 'theory'.

[CaptainPanic]

How would you test this?

How do you explain that our universe seems to expand, and to actually accelerate? If expansion would have to stop at some point, and contraction should start, then acceleration is the last thing you'd expect.

 

Any comments?

[R A J A]

How would you test this?

How do you explain that our universe seems to expand, and to actually accelerate? If expansion would have to stop at some point, and contraction should start, then acceleration is the last thing you'd expect.

 

Any comments?

 

There is dark matter more than real matter in the universe which has a specialty that like gravity is an attractive force, the anti-gravity(dark energy) has a repulsive force which is the cause for the universe to expand.

[CaptainPanic]

I can claim that if you drop a bowling ball from 10 meters, it will hit the ground in 1 second.

Then you can say: "I don't believe you, show me".

Then I would show you. And we measure with a stopwatch how long it takes. And then we would know if I am right or wrong.

 

Science means that you must be able to show something, if someone says: "I don't believe you".

 

Here, in this thread, I say: "I don't believe you, show me."

So, now you must show me.

What I want to know is, how are you even going to show me that the universe would contract again?

[R A J A]

I can claim that if you drop a bowling ball from 10 meters, it will hit the ground in 1 second.

Then you can say: "I don't believe you, show me".

Then I would show you. And we measure with a stopwatch how long it takes. And then we would know if I am right or wrong.

 

Science means that you must be able to show something, if someone says: "I don't believe you".

 

Here, in this thread, I say: "I don't believe you, show me."

So, now you must show me.

What I want to know is, how are you even going to show me that the universe would contract again?

 

But this is entirely not a subject to test as easy as to drop a ball from 10 meters. This is complicated. And I didn't say that this will surely happen but there is only a chance to happen. And you can't say that all scientific theories should be experimented. There are some topics which is about extreme conditions or cannot be tested like knowing the taste of cyanide.

[immortal]

But this is entirely not a subject to test as easy as to drop a ball from 10 meters. This is complicated. And I didn't say that this will surely happen but there is only a chance to happen. And you can't say that all scientific theories should be experimented. There are some topics which is about extreme conditions or cannot be tested like knowing the taste of cyanide.

 

The scientific community will not accept your hypothesis as an accepted science until you can make some predictions and come up with an experiment to test those predictions.

 

If you cannot then it is not science.

[R A J A]

The scientific community will not accept your hypothesis as an accepted science until you can make some predictions and come up with an experiment to test those predictions.

 

If you cannot then it is not science.

 

O.K. so let me think..............................Still thinking..................................

 

[ANY SUGGESTION FOR ANY EXPERIMENT (which makes sence) WILL BE ACCEPTED]

[immortal]

 

[ANY SUGGESTION FOR ANY EXPERIMENT (which makes sence) WILL BE ACCEPTED]

 

We can't suggest any experiments which makes sence, it will violate the rules.

[JohnStu]

WHen I was 19 I thought that the universe would eventually collapse to some small region to have a big bang again, but now I think differently. Big Bang won't happen again, as blackholes eat up more and more tens of billions of years later, not everything will be pulled into a single point, but rather have multiple giant blackholes, which aren't nearly as big as the hypothetical big bang beginning.

[Ophiolite]

WHen I was 19 I thought that the universe would eventually collapse to some small region to have a big bang again, but now I think differently. Big Bang won't happen again, as blackholes eat up more and more tens of billions of years later, not everything will be pulled into a single point, but rather have multiple giant blackholes, which aren't nearly as big as the hypothetical big bang beginning.

what you think is irrelevant. The current evidence is that the universe will continue to expand indefinitely. A speculation has to be based upon more than just an opinion or a thought. It does require some evidence. What is your evidence, no matter how tentative, that leads you to think as you do?

[tar]

what you think is irrelevant. The current evidence is that the universe will continue to expand indefinitely. A speculation has to be based upon more than just an opinion or a thought. It does require some evidence. What is your evidence, no matter how tentative, that leads you to think as you do?

 

Ophiolite,

 

While I find RAJA's speculation lacking in a few logical consistentcies, as a "thought" experiment,

 

As in what causes the stretching limit to be reached?

If black hole A is pulling black hole B to it, and C is pulling A and C...why do galaxies appear to be receding from us at a substantial rate?

 

and so on,

 

I would have to ask you about any evidence you have of what the universe is doing currently, any farther away from here than a couple thousand light years, (that may have been noted in recorded human history?)

 

If we take some measurements that tell us that galaxy A is moving this way or that way at this or that speed, we only have evidence of what it was doing millions (or billions) of years ago. We are speculating to assume it is STILL in the same state, especially since it most likely has had millions of years to slow or speed up, or complete an orbital dance around some neighboring stuff. IF some combination of forces and material have actually caused the universe to be currently shrinking...we would have no evidence of it, for quite a while. Now would we?

 

Considering the size and scale of the universe, it seems rather inappropriate to imagine it as doing any one thing, currently. There is no such vantage point from which such a statement would make any actual sense. If we are only building models, then only the models have to be internally consistent. We can not provide any current data for analysis, about something which is happening 2 billion light years away.

 

Regards, TAR2

 

In fact, one of the only sure things we can say about a galaxy we measure to be 2 billion light years away, is that it has had 2 billion years to evolve into some other configuration, than the one we see now.

[R A J A]

As in what causes the stretching limit to be reached?

If black hole A is pulling black hole B to it, and C is pulling A and C...why do galaxies appear to be receding from us at a substantial rate?

 

 

 

 

Black holes could stretch space-time by increasing its mass. For an analogy, in a trampolne if we keep a 50kg body, it would stretch the trampoline, but if we keep a 5000 kg body which has same size, it would stretch even more and could tear the trampoline, but space time can't be teared, it would just stop stretching. So the more massive the black hole the more it stretches the space-time into it. But the whole universe is expanding more powerfully than the black holes pulls the space-time. So galaxies recedes frome each other.

 

Considering the size and scale of the universe, it seems rather inappropriate to imagine it as doing any one thing, currently. There is no such vantage point from which such a statement would make any actual sense. If we are only building models, then only the models have to be internally consistent. We can not provide any current data for analysis, about something which is happening 2 billion light years away.

 

Then why does everyone who reads my hypothesis ask for an experiment to prove this? I'm sure this can't be experimented in a lab which is billions of times larger than it.

 

 

Regards, TAR2

 

 

 

Thanks

[The Observer]

Black holes don't pull each other together for the same reason stars don't pull each other together.

[Royston]

Black holes don't pull each other together for the same reason stars don't pull each other together.

 

Err, what ?

 

If black hole A is pulling black hole B to it, and C is pulling A and C...why do galaxies appear to be receding from us at a substantial rate?

 

Because of dark energy, you do get galaxy mergers, but they're gravitationally bound e.g our galaxy and Andromeda.

 

Then why does everyone who reads my hypothesis ask for an experiment to prove this? I'm sure this can't be experimented in a lab which is billions of times larger than it.

 

Then the lab you should be using is the Universe itself...there are a number of handy measuring tools at your disposal, e.g the CMB

Edited April 12, 2012 by Royston

[tar]

General query.

 

What do we mean when we say "ultimate fate"?

 

That state that the universe will be in, when there is no "next" state?

 

I am having a little trouble looking for the place to stand, even hypothetically, to witness that.

 

Regards, TAR2

 

And wondering what senses one would need to witness such a thing happening...all at once. Seems you would have to break a few laws to do it. The speed of light, being one.

 

In a sense, we do actually see the whole universe at once...but it is not the same once that one would need to see the entire "current" universe at one time. So an ultimate fate, would require the entire universe, to be at the same place, at the same time, with no distinctions between any parts. That would argue toward a singularity being the only possible ultimate fate. If the path of the universe does not end in a singularity, then it does not end...in which case the universe does not have an ultimate fate...it just would keep doing what it was going to do next.

 

Regards, TAR2

Edited April 13, 2012 by tar

[The Observer]

Royston my response was directed towards Tar's thought experiment about the black holes pulling on each other.

[Ophiolite]

While I find RAJA's speculation lacking in a few logical consistentcies, as a "thought" experiment,

As in what causes the stretching limit to be reached?.

This sentence, (or is it two sentences?) makes no sense. Did you mean to say "While I find RAJA's speculation lacking in a few logical consistencies, it may have some value as a "thought" experiment. As such it considers what causes the stretchin limit to be reached."

 

If we take some measurements that tell us that galaxy A is moving this way or that way at this or that speed, we only have evidence of what it was doing millions (or billions) of years ago. We are speculating to assume it is STILL in the same state, especially since it most likely has had millions of years to slow or speed up, or complete an orbital dance around some neighboring stuff. IF some combination of forces and material have actually caused the universe to be currently shrinking...we would have no evidence of it, for quite a while. Now would we?

 

Considering the size and scale of the universe, it seems rather inappropriate to imagine it as doing any one thing, currently. There is no such vantage point from which such a statement would make any actual sense. If we are only building models, then only the models have to be internally consistent. We can not provide any current data for analysis, about something which is happening 2 billion light years away.

 

Regards, TAR2

 

In fact, one of the only sure things we can say about a galaxy we measure to be 2 billion light years away, is that it has had 2 billion years to evolve into some other configuration, than the one we see now.

If we apply the same logic then there is no chemical reaction occuring today that might not occur differently tomorrow. Tomorrow objects may fall faster or slower. Supernovae may generate different proportions of elements than they do today, or they did four billion years ago. etc

 

We see a consistent pattern in the behaviour of galaxies that leads us to propose, in the absence of any contrary evidence, or theoretical foundation, that expansion is continuing and is accelerating. End of story.

[Klaynos]

A black hole has no more gravitational effect outside the event horizon than any other gravitational body. If the sun turned into a black hole the earths orbit would remain unchanged.