Consciousness And Particle Distinguishablity.

[Steven Hawkins]

Consciousness And Particle Distinguishablity.

 

Since it is not possible for particle distinguishablity, then how does science understand the nature of the human mind?

 

We all know that the human body including the mind itself is made of electrical responses, some even governed by the rules and laws of the famed "Pauli Exclusion Principle."

 

It is fact that two people cannot penetrate each other, unless circumstances are made for such. In this case the act of sex, personal physical attacks and other grotesqueness of human evolution.

 

However, within the "general case" how would scientist "measure" what differentiates human "distinguishablity" via human consciousness governing:

 

Human discrimations towards each other, wars, theft, hate crimes, and all other traits of the human mind, when humans "themselves" are a make up pertaining to the same orders and constituents of the "known" rules of 'matter" as we know it to be???

 

This also includes, human perception. No two minds think the same, which does follow the famed "Pauli Exclusion Principle."

 

In simpler words, if humans are all made up of 'atoms" and atoms cannot be distinguished at all, then:

 

Why do humans think differently?

 

 

To take note here, let us not use any types of standard deviation models such census bureau, astrology and or other meta-physical topics, as I would like to know how this question is "formulated by a scientist."

 

 

Thanks!

[mooeypoo]

!

Moderator Note

Moved to speculation, and that's a stretch.

[questionposter]

Consciousness And Particle Distinguishablity.

 

Since it is not possible for particle distinguishablity, then how does science understand the nature of the human mind?

 

We all know that the human body including the mind itself is made of electrical responses, some even governed by the rules and laws of the famed "Pauli Exclusion Principle."

 

It is fact that two people cannot penetrate each other, unless circumstances are made for such. In this case the act of sex, personal physical attacks and other grotesqueness of human evolution.

 

However, within the "general case" how would scientist "measure" what differentiates human "distinguishablity" via human consciousness governing:

 

Human discrimations towards each other, wars, theft, hate crimes, and all other traits of the human mind, when humans "themselves" are a make up pertaining to the same orders and constituents of the "known" rules of 'matter" as we know it to be???

 

This also includes, human perception. No two minds think the same, which does follow the famed "Pauli Exclusion Principle."

 

In simpler words, if humans are all made up of 'atoms" and atoms cannot be distinguished at all, then:

 

Why do humans think differently?

 

 

To take note here, let us not use any types of standard deviation models such census bureau, astrology and or other meta-physical topics, as I would like to know how this question is "formulated by a scientist."

 

 

Thanks!

 

Not only based on empirical evidence would physics have to work without us existing in order for life to form in the first place and evolve to be as we are now, but as far as science can tell, quantum mechanics does not vary with human perception. If you have multiple humans..no, multiple species of living things observing the same atom, they will see the same types of results, and with a particle cannon they would all see the same type of interference pattern, and this is because of relativity and the fact if all of the species share the same frame of reference, or measure the particle under the same condition, the equation to describe the particle will always be the same, and thus the same statistical results will occur for anyone measuring in the same circumstances. Consciousness does not change the equation, the frame of reference does, and the equation determines what statistical pattern you see.

There's also the fact that energy is quantized, so that's also another reason for quantum mechanics to in no way vary because of the type of consciousness observing it because the implications if what you seem to be suggesting would violate that physics and we would technically see particles existing at impossible variations of energies and nodal surfaces, since if only a slightly different mind would only slightly differ the equation, then you could technically put in a 2.3 principal quantum number and a .0285648347 spin, even though there can only be half spins or integer spins, which would just cause destructive interference and make the particle not exist, but that doesn't happen.

 

 

There's even multiple machines, which we don't consider to have consciousness, which can do all of the weird things in quantum mechanics that any human can do, so I wouldn't consider consciousness itself to have a large part in quantum mechanics. Also, how do you know for a fact that no two minds are the same?

Also, how do you know for a fact that the consciousness of multiple people cannot "penetrate" each other? The probability fields of all particles approaches infinity, so technically all of our minds are very* very^23 weakly reacting, and this isn't just for minds, but for all particles.

Edited April 4, 2012 by questionposter

[immortal]

In simpler words, if humans are all made up of 'atoms" and atoms cannot be distinguished at all, then:

 

Only identical particles or identical atoms are truly indistinguishable that doesn't mean that there are no other atoms having different number of electrons in their quantum system. We cannot distinguish a hydrogen atom from an another hydrogen atom but we can distinguish a hydrogen atom from a helium atom having two electrons in its quantum system.

 

Why do humans think differently?

 

Thanks!

 

Its because of their different habituation from the surrounding environments which produce synaptic plasticity and the generation of synaptic spines which helps humans to have access consciousness by accessing memory stored in the form of synaptic structures makes each human unique from others in the community.

[Steven Hawkins]

This was probably the best answer I have ever heard in my entire life thanks!

 

about "synaptic plasticity" does this also relate to lets say "subconsciousness collective" like "electrical" reactions to ones own environment?

 

In other words does one inherit characteristically like particles do, in lets say the forms of "particle entanglements" ie love for example, much like thoughts in lets say quantum of action, in where remembrance of a certain "event" work much like quantum states that coexistence in the same "dimension" ie" place or environment again ie: to be "triggered" by other sources, ie, commercials, music, stereotypes and or "physiological" physical responses to an economy??

 

 

thanks!

Only identical particles or identical atoms are truly indistinguishable that doesn't mean that there are no other atoms having different number of electrons in their quantum system. We cannot distinguish a hydrogen atom from an another hydrogen atom but we can distinguish a hydrogen atom from a helium atom having two electrons in its quantum system.

 

 

 

Its because of their different habituation from the surrounding environments which produce synaptic plasticity and the generation of synaptic spines which helps humans to have access consciousness by accessing memory stored in the form of synaptic structures makes each human unique from others in the community.

 

Very intriguing thanks!

 

But relative to what????

 

 

I would like to answer your questions , however I am trying to stay away from any metaphysical explanations to avoid problems here with other members whom do not consider this as a science or something to consider a form as collective resources..

 

One thing I do know as per fact is that humans have free will use the frontal lobes of the brain, and can mimic music and harmony like nature.

 

I guess my area of need is why are humans made up of atoms, and yet within the sciences of matter and electrons, we see they cannot fully be distinguished nor occupy the same states 'matter' ie fermions." However an Oprah Singer's voice can break glass if the pitch is right, it can also be recorded, and now even altered via digital processing. The music can also be played in cars, on a cd player and etc, and be randomly played on planet earth at different times. The Oprah Singer's Voice, is now in tangible digital form, with or without the invention of the computer, this was and never was possible but still is possible.

 

It makes me think that perhaps the human mind is made of pure photons, ie bosons, because humans can:

 

imagine and or in-vision creative art work then transform this into an actual art piece in physical reality now, literature, novels and etc all follow the same process including pregnancy and birth to creation of a child.

 

Surly these are thoughts and or mental actions that travel out of this world and out of our existance as predefined as per cumulative genetics... Thoughts have also inspired great legacies like time and precession.

 

 

I think in terms lets say about "temporal distortions" and other visionary ways to understand the quantum world and ask how do scientist "deduce" to perfect accuracy within our available technological advancements as humans which still question our intertial relative mind states, when we are all made of the same material....

 

But again I ask: relative to what????

 

There needs to be an asnswer to this somehow...

Thanks!

Not only based on empirical evidence would physics have to work without us existing in order for life to form in the first place and evolve to be as we are now, but as far as science can tell, quantum mechanics does not vary with human perception. If you have multiple humans..no, multiple species of living things observing the same atom, they will see the same types of results, and with a particle cannon they would all see the same type of interference pattern, and this is because of relativity and the fact if all of the species share the same frame of reference, or measure the particle under the same condition, the equation to describe the particle will always be the same, and thus the same statistical results will occur for anyone measuring in the same circumstances. Consciousness does not change the equation, the frame of reference does, and the equation determines what statistical pattern you see.

There's also the fact that energy is quantized, so that's also another reason for quantum mechanics to in no way vary because of the type of consciousness observing it because the implications if what you seem to be suggesting would violate that physics and we would technically see particles existing at impossible variations of energies and nodal surfaces, since if only a slightly different mind would only slightly differ the equation, then you could technically put in a 2.3 principal quantum number and a .0285648347 spin, even though there can only be half spins or integer spins, which would just cause destructive interference and make the particle not exist, but that doesn't happen.

 

 

There's even multiple machines, which we don't consider to have consciousness, which can do all of the weird things in quantum mechanics that any human can do, so I wouldn't consider consciousness itself to have a large part in quantum mechanics. Also, how do you know for a fact that no two minds are the same?

Also, how do you know for a fact that the consciousness of multiple people cannot "penetrate" each other? The probability fields of all particles approaches infinity, so technically all of our minds are very* very^23 weakly reacting, and this isn't just for minds, but for all particles.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Steven Hawkins