Taxes

[Phi for All]

This is for everyone in every country. I'd like to discuss the best use of government tax revenues.

 

Personally, I think there are some areas where people in a society can get the best benefits for their money by pooling it via taxes. As I've mentioned before, things like medical insurance, prisons and education don't fit the standard business models. Maintaining a growing customer base for prisons is antithetical to what you want prisons for.

 

I think welfare is a great investment in your citizens. Too often, people only look at the smaller percentage of people who abuse welfare systems, and fail to see the greater percentage of people who truly need them, so we end up not wanting to help anyone. Welfare helps in many unseen ways as well, like reducing the reasons people turn to crime.

 

Scientific research is something that almost never fails to benefit everyone in a society. Public roads, parks, libraries and community centers are all great investments as well.

 

Subsidies can help business get a start in a new sector but there has to be a cutoff point where the subsidies stop. It's crazy to spend taxpayer dollars to make profitable businesses even more profitable ad infinitum.

 

Certainly not a comprehensive list but I wanted to start with some areas that have been discussed lately.

[Xittenn]

I wish there were more public places that were designed to be social venues that extend beyond commercial centers. I would like to see public places that were more like a greenhouse/atrium/arborarium/biodome where people could go to hang out with friends and enjoy a nice environment filled with flowers and small birds etc. I'm not sure if this fits on the list but I see it as one way in which such a place could be realized, by public funding! It doesn't have to be indoors and it can be any sociably friendly venue that helps bring people together without introducing cost. All people do these days is watch tv.

[Phi for All]

I wish there were more public places that were designed to be social venues that extend beyond commercial centers. I would like to see public places that were more like a greenhouse/atrium/arborarium/biodome where people could go to hang out with friends and enjoy a nice environment filled with flowers and small birds etc. I'm not sure if this fits on the list but I see it as one way in which such a place could be realized, by public funding! It doesn't have to be indoors and it can be any sociably friendly venue that helps bring people together without introducing cost. All people do these days is watch tv.

And the TV we watch seems geared towards fear, which keeps us indoors even more. 24/7 news seemed like such a good idea, but I think it's had quite a bit of negative impact as well.

 

I can see accessible community preserves being a good investment. I'm not sure our current trend towards bigger houses with more stuff in them so we never have to leave is headed in a healthy direction. The more we isolate ourselves, the less we interact in physical ways. It seems to run counter to the social strengths that helped our species get this far so quickly.

[Villain]

Ideally taxes should be spent on public infrastructure/investment in GDP growth and redistributing the wealth from those with excess to those who can't meet their basic needs. If you live in a country that is lucky enough to have a surplus left, which is probably not the case for the majority, then public parks etc. is a pretty good idea IMO.

[iNow]

Desalination plants. Solar, wind, and battery technology. Healthcare, education, and housing. I would follow a model of planning and investment similiar to what we've seen in Singapore, but in a huge way.

[mississippichem]

Education and scientific research, both of which can alleviate all other problems. Kill a million birds with two stones.

[Phi for All]

Desalination plants. Solar, wind, and battery technology. Healthcare, education, and housing.

Education and scientific research, both of which can alleviate all other problems. Kill a million birds with two stones.

Energy, health (which includes clean drinking water and breathable air) and education seem to be some of the best investments we could ever make, and are so vital to our modern life that it seems incredibly sensible to keep control of them in the hands of the People (real People, We, the People, not Corporate Persons).

 

iNow, you mention housing. Are you talking about a minimum standard for housing to alleviate homelessness?

[Appolinaria]

I think lifetime medical care, a college education, and the basic needs should be provided for everyone.

 

Things like Fafsa, section 8, etc. are great. But a lot of people still don't get help.

 

As for medical care, that really needs some fucking work. Angry just thinking about it.

[Phi for All]

As for medical care, that really needs some fucking work. Angry just thinking about it.

Medicine, as a whole, is not suited to standard business models. If you expect to make a profit and grow your business, you don't obviate your customer's need for your services and products. You figure out ways to make your customers dependent on what you have to sell them.

 

But what we really want from healthcare is to be cured so we can minimize our need for the services doctors provide, to be healthy and strong. I don't know anyone who doesn't want that.

 

Alleviating symptoms is a far cry from curing disease, but it's very profitable for business. We've been trading huge amounts of money and poor health for the "freedom" of getting a pill and not having a doctor "mandate" that we need more exercise and healthier food. And now it's hard to trust that the business side of the medical establishment would ever even try to find simple cures for things like diabetes, one of the most lucrative ways to make money from a captive customer base EVER.

 

I'm not sure what can be done to force such a paradigm shift in the way medicine is practiced, so I settle for advocating a government insurance program so we can at least get the care we need without paying middle men to further make it difficult to be healthy. A necessary step, and moving in a better direction.

[michel123456]

That's all very well. But you must know that in the real world a lot of taxes is used to pay interests on loans (debt), not schools or medicine.

Edited April 8, 2012 by michel123456

[iNow]

iNow, you mention housing. Are you talking about a minimum standard for housing to alleviate homelessness?

Perhaps that, but also government housing and/or subsidization for those suffering extreme poverty through no fault of their own.

[Phi for All]

Perhaps that, but also government housing and/or subsidization for those suffering extreme poverty through no fault of their own.

I think the need for such housing would have a shorter life cycle if we educated people better. But you're right, there will always be people who get into circumstances beyond their control and need the help of their fellow countrymen.

[iNow]

Yeah. As I mentioned above, I thought the model in Singapore seemed good. While the residences were tiny and all cookie cutter EXACTLY THE SAME by the THOUSANDS, it did allow people to focus their efforts on giving back to the economy and bettering themselves.

[Vent]

I think health care is one of the best uses. I don't tend to agree with subsidisation (in general) as even though small firms may need it to get into a market, particularly when there are high barriers to entry, they haven't shown a long term benefit to society yet, through their product or, due to shareholder returns being paramount, that the owners are worthy of the subsidy (considering who's funding them). Large firms shouldn't need it, and if they do i tend to agree with the argument that they're therefore not efficient enough in their resource management and other entrepreneurs should have an easier time of challenging their market position and competing for their network.

 

On the other hand i do agree with investment, particularly in innovation and high contestable markets where firms don't have an incentive to innovate. The government could be the holder of "patents" for a quick concrete idea and put them in the public domain (energy being a good example i think). Of course, the argument for the government then becoming a player in the market needs discussion.

 

I think education has fair arguments also.

 

I'm actually not sure of what else as the arguments become complicated i find. I actually like the idea of minimising taxes as far as possible in an attempt to make people richer so as to allow them to fund things which are important to them. Too many people are poor and, in the UK for example, 50%+ (assuming only 20% for consumption), of all money received goes to the government. I don't see people getting this value of service in return. An overhaul or accountability would be nice.

 

Sorry for long post.

[questionposter]

Taxes are best spent on making society better as to accommodate people better. The way civilization works is you have people who gather resources, or some way of gathering large amounts of resources, and those resources can then be spent for the specialization of workers, such as to doctors, physicists, etc in order to advance civilization and make it run more optimally. The things that help with this are medical benefits such as that you would not need to worry as much as you do now about contracting a harsh disease. Things like those require energy to deal with, which means less energy is able to be spent specializing.

There's also sustainability, because a country is only as strong as it's people. If you have people in all these poor homes with little hope and resources, it's not going to make a country strong, just look at all the 3rd world countries and how poor of a lifestyle those people live, then look at how inflated those countries dollars are.

Then of course there's those evolutionists who think it's actually possible to "medicaid humanity out of existence", which is illogical because if you have more diverse gene pools, then there are more possible catastrophes that humanity can survive, and it's not like there's a large percent of the population that's physically impaired because naturally impaired people can survive.

Edited April 16, 2012 by questionposter

[JohnStu]

Tax should be mostly used to build/enhance factories and innovation. Factories are very profitable. They are are usually too big for individuals from society to afford to build or even want to build. State has the cash to afford and also connection with all the experts needed.

[questionposter]

Tax should be mostly used to build/enhance factories and innovation. Factories are very profitable. They are are usually too big for individuals from society to afford to build or even want to build. State has the cash to afford and also connection with all the experts needed.

 

It's a waste because many companies probably wouldn't build more things with it, but just keep the extra money for themselves.

[waitforufo]

Sending me a big fat check would be a good use. In fact it would be the best use ever.

 

I recommend never turning down money from the government. Believe me, you will be sending the government plenty of money in your lifetime.

[questionposter]

Sending me a big fat check would be a good use. In fact it would be the best use ever.

 

I recommend never turning down money from the government. Believe me, you will be sending the government plenty of money in your lifetime.

 

I'm not saying the companies wouldn't like it, but there's no law saying they have to use money to build things except for safety requirements and getting rid of structural violations within buildings, so there is a good chance it will go into their pocket. If your a small business it's probably more likely you'd use it to grow, but for big businesses it probably wouldn't do much.

Edited April 19, 2012 by questionposter

[Green Xenon]

This is for everyone in every country. I'd like to discuss the best use of government tax revenues.

 

Personally, I think there are some areas where people in a society can get the best benefits for their money by pooling it via taxes. As I've mentioned before, things like medical insurance, prisons and education don't fit the standard business models. Maintaining a growing customer base for prisons is antithetical to what you want prisons for.

 

I think welfare is a great investment in your citizens. Too often, people only look at the smaller percentage of people who abuse welfare systems, and fail to see the greater percentage of people who truly need them, so we end up not wanting to help anyone. Welfare helps in many unseen ways as well, like reducing the reasons people turn to crime.

 

Scientific research is something that almost never fails to benefit everyone in a society. Public roads, parks, libraries and community centers are all great investments as well.

 

Subsidies can help business get a start in a new sector but there has to be a cutoff point where the subsidies stop. It's crazy to spend taxpayer dollars to make profitable businesses even more profitable ad infinitum.

 

Certainly not a comprehensive list but I wanted to start with some areas that have been discussed lately.

 

Taxes should be used to keep comatose patients alive for as long as physically-possible -- unless the patient has requested otherwise [such as the famous "DNR"]. I strongly believe, no one should have the right to "pull the plug" on these patients -- even if a patient has no money in his/her account. In addition, such patients should never be discharged as this would place a burden on their families. Instead, this burden should be placed solely on qualified medical professionals.

 

In USA, at least...

 

... I believe being an American citizen should grant you the highest-quality life-support and emergency medical care -- even if you're penniless.

 

As for immigrants, get the hell out of USA and stop wasting resources that would be better off used to protect our own citizens' medical interests!!!

Edited April 20, 2012 by Green Xenon

[Phi for All]

As for immigrants, get the hell out of USA and stop wasting resources that would be better off used to protect our own citizens' medical interests!!!

Immigrants ARE citizens. Are you suggesting only native Americans deserve these tax resources?

[Green Xenon]

Immigrants ARE citizens. Are you suggesting only native Americans deserve these tax resources?

 

Sorry. By "immigrants" I mean those who illegally cross-over the border into the USA and take up time/energy/money and other resources in our hospitals without contributing anything to the American economy.

 

I will also add, that the inmates at Guantanamo Bay should be denied free medical care because they are not citizens of USA. In fact, many of them aren't any even human, considering the deplority of their offenses.

 

Can you believe it? Our corrupt government actually provides medical services to foreign terrorists while denying such services to USA citizens. That is why I'm very suspicious of these "inside jobs".

Edited April 20, 2012 by Green Xenon

[Phi for All]

Sorry. By "immigrants" I mean those who illegally cross-over the border into the USA and take up time/energy/money and other resources in our hospitals without contributing anything to the American economy.

Illegal immigrants only make up about 3.5% of the population, according to the Center of Immigration Studies (11M out of 313M in 2008). And they do spend the majority of the money they make here, so "without contributing anything to the American economy" is not a true statement.

[Sergeant Bilko]

 

I will also add, that the inmates at Guantanamo Bay should be denied free medical care because they are not citizens of USA. In fact, many of them aren't any even human, considering the deplority of their offenses.

 

Can you believe it? Our corrupt government actually provides medical services to foreign terrorists while denying such services to USA citizens. That is why I'm very suspicious of these "inside jobs".

 

 

Can you provide evidence to back up these claims? Maybe the dates and outcomes of the trial would be a good start so that we know they have been found guilty of the offences.

 

It is worth noting that even the Nazi war criminals were tried, in public and within a reasonable period of time.

[imatfaal]

Sgt Bilko +1

 

A couple of quotes to reinforce your point

“But fairness is not weakness. The extraordinary fairness of these hearings is an attribute to our strength”¹ – Nuremburg

 

“History and common sense teach us that an unchecked system of detention carries the potential to become a means for oppression”² – Guantanamo

 

 

1

Justice Robert H Jackson (as US Counsel) in his concluding remarks at the trial of Rudolf Hess at the Nuremburg Trials. page 398.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/07-26-46.htm

 

2

Justice Sandra Day O’Connor in

HAMDI V. RUMSFELD

(03-6696)

542 U.S. 507 (2004)

- page 2646.

 

 

Sorry if above a bit off-topic