Racially-motivated Prison Rapes

[Anders Hoveland]

85% of prison rapes in the USA are comitted by Black men, despite black men only constituting 41% of the prison population.

 

Most prison rapes in the USA are comitted by black men on white men.

The phenomena of blacks exclusively raping whites has been substantially documented since the 1960s. Both quantitative and qualitative data show that blacks exclusively raping whites has been constant. sources: Davis 1968; Jones 1976; Nacci 1978; Nacci and Kane 1984; Bowker 1980; Lookwood 1980; Starchild 1990

 

For every year in an American prison, a prisoner on average has a 6% chance of being raped. If someone is in prison for 15 years, probability is not in their favor. :frown:

 

 

Rape and Racism: Black Rapists, White Victims

 

A special complicating problem for American prisons is that they are racially integrated institutions (Buffum 1982, p. 104). The oppressive characteristics of race relations in the society as a whole penetrates the relationships between whites and blacks inside prisons (Buffum 1982, p. 104). Scacco (1982, p. 91) argues that the issue of racism predominates as a central point in sexual victimisation within correctional institutions. It has even been cited as being the single most important socio-demographic characteristic associated with victimisation. These statistics may be due to the over-representation of minorities in prisons. However, rapes are not randomly distributed within the prison population, especially with respect to race (Bowker 1980, p.7).

 

In American prisons, studies by sociologists suggest that more than 90% of rapes are inter-racial and may be motivated more by a need for sexual dominance over another race than by sexual passions (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Many rapes are by blacks on whites, suggesting that it gives the lower-class black, who has felt trod upon all his life, his one chance to dominate a white person (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Consequently, the victims are almost always young white prisoners. (Scacco 1982, p. 91) has also noted a disproportionate number of black aggressors and white victims in studies of sexual assaults in jails and prisons. Even if the minority of prisoners are black, the minority of victims are white (Scacco 1982, p. 91). When 'targets' were asked to identify their aggressors at the time of their rape, most were black (80%), some were Hispanic (14%), and a few were white (6%). (Lookwood 1980, p. 28 ) At the Tennessee State Penitentiary, when asked about the races of the aggressors and victims in rape incidents, nearly all whites agreed that the aggressors were black and the victims were white (Bowker 1980, p. 8 ). However, Bowker did note that most black respondents claimed that both blacks and whites raped whites frequently, and there were occasions when blacks raped blacks. As discussed, it is unusual for either black or Chicano youngsters to be 'turned out'. The blacks and Mexicans-Americans tend to look out for their own and will not turn out one of their own race (Wooden and Parker 1982, p.106).

 

 

"I'm a 36 year old white male. heterosexual. raped by black inmates in

1978, still have nightmares and afraid of one day my mind snapping. The

Texas prison system lacks in professional counselors to talk to and the

psychologist either dont want to talk or want you to take drugs.

After the incident I asked to be put in PC and they refused so I wrote the

FBI, who came to see me but not before I was taken into a room with the

"warden" and threatened if I didn't tell the Feds to forget the whole thing

my life would be made real uncomfortable there. So I blew it off...and I

stabbed one of the black M.F.'s that raped me about 6 times with a pair

of 6" scissors. I wasn't caught and I don't know if he died or what.... I

don't need the added pressures of being labeled a punk."

— M., from Beaumont, Texas

 

 

 

Prisons are already segregated by gender; Perhaps the prisons should also be racially segregated.

 

The plain truth is that racially segregated prisons would drastically reduce prison rapes, and prevent the spread of AIDS, both within the prison, and to the outside world. Prisons are one of the primary breeding grounds for AIDS, not least of which because rape and anal intercourse carry a much higher probabibility of sexual transmission (both rapes and anal intercourse are much "rougher", leading to microtearing of skin. even when a condom is used, chances of transmission of disease are still higher)

http://www.politicalforum.com/health-care/225740-aids-rife-black-community.html

 

But the "progressives" refuse to look at the facts. Their ideology of racial integration must override any and all problems that such policies may cause. If there is a serious problem in America's prisons, there needs to be a serious solution. Multiracialist politicians and media are ignoring and refusing to discuss the issue.

 

I think most prisoners would prefer to be amongst their own kind (racially), if given the option. There is obviously much race-based violence happening in prisons. Segregation could dramatically reduce violence. Putting prisoners in a situation where they have such a high chance of being infected with HIV against their will is inhumane. Racial segregation would thus give prisoners more rights than racial integration.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2W8lgVUeA&feature=related

 

 

[John Cuthber]

Segregating the prisons wouldn't really help.

The power crazed would still rape their fellow inmates.

Is black on black violence really better than black on white?

If not, what would the separation achieve?

[JustinW]

John,

 

If not, what would the separation achieve?

At the very least it might cut down on gang violence, which is mostly racial.

[Moontanman]

85% of prison rapes in the USA are comitted by Black men, despite black men only constituting 41% of the prison population.

 

Most prison rapes in the USA are comitted by black men on white men.

The phenomena of blacks exclusively raping whites has been substantially documented since the 1960s. Both quantitative and qualitative data show that blacks exclusively raping whites has been constant. sources: Davis 1968; Jones 1976; Nacci 1978; Nacci and Kane 1984; Bowker 1980; Lookwood 1980; Starchild 1990

 

For every year in an American prison, a prisoner on average has a 6% chance of being raped. If someone is in prison for 15 years, probability is not in their favor. :frown:

 

 

Rape and Racism: Black Rapists, White Victims

 

A special complicating problem for American prisons is that they are racially integrated institutions (Buffum 1982, p. 104). The oppressive characteristics of race relations in the society as a whole penetrates the relationships between whites and blacks inside prisons (Buffum 1982, p. 104). Scacco (1982, p. 91) argues that the issue of racism predominates as a central point in sexual victimisation within correctional institutions. It has even been cited as being the single most important socio-demographic characteristic associated with victimisation. These statistics may be due to the over-representation of minorities in prisons. However, rapes are not randomly distributed within the prison population, especially with respect to race (Bowker 1980, p.7).

 

In American prisons, studies by sociologists suggest that more than 90% of rapes are inter-racial and may be motivated more by a need for sexual dominance over another race than by sexual passions (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Many rapes are by blacks on whites, suggesting that it gives the lower-class black, who has felt trod upon all his life, his one chance to dominate a white person (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Consequently, the victims are almost always young white prisoners. (Scacco 1982, p. 91) has also noted a disproportionate number of black aggressors and white victims in studies of sexual assaults in jails and prisons. Even if the minority of prisoners are black, the minority of victims are white (Scacco 1982, p. 91). When 'targets' were asked to identify their aggressors at the time of their rape, most were black (80%), some were Hispanic (14%), and a few were white (6%). (Lookwood 1980, p. 28 ) At the Tennessee State Penitentiary, when asked about the races of the aggressors and victims in rape incidents, nearly all whites agreed that the aggressors were black and the victims were white (Bowker 1980, p. 8 ). However, Bowker did note that most black respondents claimed that both blacks and whites raped whites frequently, and there were occasions when blacks raped blacks. As discussed, it is unusual for either black or Chicano youngsters to be 'turned out'. The blacks and Mexicans-Americans tend to look out for their own and will not turn out one of their own race (Wooden and Parker 1982, p.106).

 

 

"I'm a 36 year old white male. heterosexual. raped by black inmates in

1978, still have nightmares and afraid of one day my mind snapping. The

Texas prison system lacks in professional counselors to talk to and the

psychologist either dont want to talk or want you to take drugs.

After the incident I asked to be put in PC and they refused so I wrote the

FBI, who came to see me but not before I was taken into a room with the

"warden" and threatened if I didn't tell the Feds to forget the whole thing

my life would be made real uncomfortable there. So I blew it off...and I

stabbed one of the black M.F.'s that raped me about 6 times with a pair

of 6" scissors. I wasn't caught and I don't know if he died or what.... I

don't need the added pressures of being labeled a punk."

— M., from Beaumont, Texas

 

 

 

Prisons are already segregated by gender; Perhaps the prisons should also be racially segregated.

 

The plain truth is that racially segregated prisons would drastically reduce prison rapes, and prevent the spread of AIDS, both within the prison, and to the outside world. Prisons are one of the primary breeding grounds for AIDS, not least of which because rape and anal intercourse carry a much higher probabibility of sexual transmission (both rapes and anal intercourse are much "rougher", leading to microtearing of skin. even when a condom is used, chances of transmission of disease are still higher)

http://www.politicalforum.com/health-care/225740-aids-rife-black-community.html

 

But the "progressives" refuse to look at the facts. Their ideology of racial integration must override any and all problems that such policies may cause. If there is a serious problem in America's prisons, there needs to be a serious solution. Multiracialist politicians and media are ignoring and refusing to discuss the issue.

 

I think most prisoners would prefer to be amongst their own kind (racially), if given the option. There is obviously much race-based violence happening in prisons. Segregation could dramatically reduce violence. Putting prisoners in a situation where they have such a high chance of being infected with HIV against their will is inhumane. Racial segregation would thus give prisoners more rights than racial integration.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2W8lgVUeA&feature=related

 

 

What do you do with people of indeterminate race? How do you determine race? What do you do with those yellow men or the red ones? Then there are those Jews and the Arabs, Polynesians, Hispanics, wow the list goes on and on... Race realism is insane... it's nothing but good old fashioned racism dressed up to look like something it's not... You cannot determine what a persons character is by his skin color... or his intelligence... or anything else...

[Anders Hoveland]

What do you do with people of indeterminate race?

 

Do you mean Mulattos ? (part black, part white)

I believe there is a separate group in South Africa known as the "Coloureds".

 

What about voluntary racial segregation?

Most Blacks would choose to go be with the other Blacks, and most Whites would choose to go be with other whites.

There could even be an "integrated" section, for those that prefer racial diversity. lol

Edited April 16, 2012 by Anders Hoveland

[John Cuthber]

John,

 

At the very least it might cut down on gang violence, which is mostly racial.

I doubt that.

They would find something to form "gangs" about.

 

I grew up in an area where there were precious few people who were not white protestants- so they formed gangs about whether their parents were first generation immigrants to the town or not.

 

And citing South Africa as anything other than example of how not to deal with issue of race is likely to leave you looking silly.

[imatfaal]

85% of prison rapes in the USA are comitted by Black men, despite black men only constituting 41% of the prison population.

 

Most prison rapes in the USA are comitted by black men on white men.

The phenomena of blacks exclusively raping whites has been substantially documented since the 1960s. Both quantitative and qualitative data show that blacks exclusively raping whites has been constant. sources: Davis 1968; Jones 1976; Nacci 1978; Nacci and Kane 1984; Bowker 1980; Lookwood 1980; Starchild 1990

Actually this is not a well understood or even well researched area. Making even a quantitative estimate of the incidence of prison rape is not simple; outwardly rigorous academic research papers have made empirical claims of the prevalence of sexual assault at close to zero percent (the highly controversial FLEISHER & KREINERT 2006) to as high as twenty percent (STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON et al., 1996). Even discounting rogue extremes and concentrating on the larger studies, estimates vary from 4.5% to 13% of prisoners suffering sexual assault per year (BECK et al., 2007;STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON, 2000).

 

FLEISHER, Mark and Jessie L KRIENERT. 2006. The Culture of Prison Sexual Violence. http://www.ncjrs.gov...ants/216515.pdf. (last visited 31 August 2009)

 

STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON, Cindy, David STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON, Lila RUCKER et al. 1996. Sexual Coercion Reported by Men and Women in Prison. The Journal of Sex Research. 33(1), pp.67-76.

 

STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON, Cindy and David STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON. 2000. Sexual Coercion Rates in Seven MidWestern Prison Facilities for Men. The Prison Journal. 80(4), pp.379-390.

 

BECK, Allen, Paige HARRISON, and Devon ADAMS. 2007 (rvsd March 08). Sexual Victimization in State and Federal Prisons Reported by Inmates 2007. US Department of Justice http://www.ojp.usdoj...f/svsfpri07.pdf (visited 17 September 2009)

 

 

 

For every year in an American prison, a prisoner on average has a 6% chance of being raped. If someone is in prison for 15 years, probability is not in their favor. :frown:

This is a misuse of statistics - the chance is not strictly cumulative nor is it random. Unfortuntately those likely to be sexually assaulted and raped are identified by their persecutors at an early stage of their incarcerations.

 

Rape and Racism: Black Rapists, White Victims

 

A special complicating problem for American prisons is that they are racially integrated institutions (Buffum 1982, p. 104). The oppressive characteristics of race relations in the society as a whole penetrates the relationships between whites and blacks inside prisons (Buffum 1982, p. 104). Scacco (1982, p. 91) argues that the issue of racism predominates as a central point in sexual victimisation within correctional institutions. It has even been cited as being the single most important socio-demographic characteristic associated with victimisation. These statistics may be due to the over-representation of minorities in prisons. However, rapes are not randomly distributed within the prison population, especially with respect to race (Bowker 1980, p.7).

This is a direct quote from Knowles

KNOWLES Howard James Male Prison Rape: A Search for Causation and Prevention

The Howard Journal Vol 38 No 3. Aug 99 ISSN 0265-5527, pp. 267-282

 

 

In American prisons, studies by sociologists suggest that more than 90% of rapes are inter-racial and may be motivated more by a need for sexual dominance over another race than by sexual passions (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Many rapes are by blacks on whites, suggesting that it gives the lower-class black, who has felt trod upon all his life, his one chance to dominate a white person (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Consequently, the victims are almost always young white prisoners. (Scacco 1982, p. 91) has also noted a disproportionate number of black aggressors and white victims in studies of sexual assaults in jails and prisons. Even if the minority of prisoners are black, the minority of victims are white (Scacco 1982, p. 91). When 'targets' were asked to identify their aggressors at the time of their rape, most were black (80%), some were Hispanic (14%), and a few were white (6%). (Lookwood 1980, p. 28 ) At the Tennessee State Penitentiary, when asked about the races of the aggressors and victims in rape incidents, nearly all whites agreed that the aggressors were black and the victims were white (Bowker 1980, p. 8 ). However, Bowker did note that most black respondents claimed that both blacks and whites raped whites frequently, and there were occasions when blacks raped blacks. As discussed, it is unusual for either black or Chicano youngsters to be 'turned out'. The blacks and Mexicans-Americans tend to look out for their own and will not turn out one of their own race (Wooden and Parker 1982, p.106).

 

This from another section of the same article. you must give reference to large quoted chunks of material that you did not write yourself

 

"I'm a 36 year old white male. heterosexual. raped by black inmates in

1978, still have nightmares and afraid of one day my mind snapping. The

Texas prison system lacks in professional counselors to talk to and the

psychologist either dont want to talk or want you to take drugs.

After the incident I asked to be put in PC and they refused so I wrote the

FBI, who came to see me but not before I was taken into a room with the

"warden" and threatened if I didn't tell the Feds to forget the whole thing

my life would be made real uncomfortable there. So I blew it off...and I

stabbed one of the black M.F.'s that raped me about 6 times with a pair

of 6" scissors. I wasn't caught and I don't know if he died or what.... I

don't need the added pressures of being labeled a punk."

— M., from Beaumont, Texas

 

It was first person testimony like the above that first lead me to write on prison rape for my thesis - and also forced me to leave the study as I could no longer bear it. The state of american prisons is a disgrace to the world's leading power

 

 

Prisons are already segregated by gender; Perhaps the prisons should also be racially segregated.

 

The plain truth is that racially segregated prisons would drastically reduce prison rapes, ....

This is not "plain truth" - it is mere supposition

But the "progressives" refuse to look at the facts. Their ideology of racial integration must override any and all problems that such policies may cause. If there is a serious problem in America's prisons, there needs to be a serious solution. Multiracialist politicians and media are ignoring and refusing to discuss the issue.

 

This is not quite true George Bush (not exactly the most progressive bloke around) after pressure from victim groups and religious groups he did pass the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Admittedly that act has done very little - however, it has caused a huge amount of discussion, quite the opposite of what you claimed. It also made funds available to properly research the problems and to allow us to approach the situation from a position of knowledge rather than assumption. You will find SPR and http://www.justdetention.org/ do discuss and campaign on these matters.

 

I think most prisoners would prefer to be amongst their own kind (racially), if given the option. There is obviously much race-based violence happening in prisons. Segregation could dramatically reduce violence. Putting prisoners in a situation where they have such a high chance of being infected with HIV against their will is inhumane. Racial segregation would thus give prisoners more rights than racial integration.

Canada has refused to extradite to the USA on at least one occasion because of a threat of prison rape

 

Prison rape is an horrific feature of American prisons - I would hope that this human tragedy would not be used to advance a political agenda for racial segregation.

[Moontanman]

Do you mean Mulattos ? (part black, part white)

I believe there is a separate group in South Africa known as the "Coloureds".

 

What about voluntary racial segregation?

Most Blacks would choose to go be with the other Blacks, and most Whites would choose to go be with other whites.

There could even be an "integrated" section, for those that prefer racial diversity. lol

 

 

No, I do not mean mulattoes, almost no one who has ever met me has identified me as anything but white. Right now my eyes are sky blue, my hair is white and wavy but I'm old, when I was a tot my hair was straight and almost white, then it turned curly and was light brown, in my twenties my hair was like wool and dark brown. My skin, where it is exposed to the sun, is darker than say a Scandinavian person but darker than most where the sun doesn't shine as well.

 

My racial make up is mostly Native American, Scots/Irish, Melungeon, and no doubt some more recent African as well. Where would you put me, what does your racist world view tell you...

[JustinW]

John,

 

I doubt that.

Race is the most determining factor of gang admission in prisons. Why doubt the truth?

 

 

They would find something to form "gangs" about.

This I can agree with. While the most prevailant reason to join gangs in prison is racially motivated. All beings have a tendancy to go towards what they're familiar with. But I do agree that if that reason was taken that they would probably find a new one.

 

 

I grew up in an area where there were precious few people who were not white protestants- so they formed gangs about whether their parents were first generation immigrants to the town or not

I had the good fortune to grow up in an area where there were no gangs. To me a gang is a silly thing. I always thought that people need to stand on their hind legs like men instead of needing others to fight your battles for you, but I guess that concept is more of an antiquity these days.

 

 

imatfaal,

 

This is a misuse of statistics - the chance is not strictly cumulative nor is it random. Unfortuntately those likely to be sexually assaulted and raped are identified by their persecutors at an early stage of their incarcerations.

This is the reason that most of those who I have known that go to prison start a fight as soon as they walk through the door. It's better to let it be known that you're not going to put up with anyones crap before they decide that your nothing but a punk.(which by the way, punk means something totally different in prison) Which is kind of ironic once you think about it.

 

Prison rape is an horrific feature of American prisons - I would hope that this human tragedy would not be used to advance a political agenda for racial segregation.

Got any better ideas?

 

Moontanman,

 

My racial make up is mostly Native American, Scots/Irish, Melungeon, and no doubt some more recent African as well. Where would you put me, what does your racist world view tell you...

You say that most that you have met consider you white. Well if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...your going in with the white eyes I'm sure.

[imatfaal]

Got any better ideas?

 

Stop imprisoning 1 percent of the adult population and then the state/government might be able to control those that are in prison.

[John Cuthber]

Justin,

It is true that race is currently a deciding factor in the make-up of prison gangs.

However if you segregated jails it obviously couldn't continue to be so.

However, I know from personal experience (i.e,. the truth) that gangs can , and will form even where there are no racial grounds for such a division.

I'm not the one doubting the truth here.

The truth is that people form cliques. In prison those can become gangs.

The gangs will still form so it's sensible for me to doubt that segregation will prevent gang violence inside prisons.

 

When you say " All beings have a tendancy to go towards what they're familiar with. But I do agree that if that reason was taken that they would probably find a new one."

you argue against yourself.

 

And you also contradict yourself when you then says "I had the good fortune to grow up in an area where there were no gangs.".

Well, my best guess is that there were gangs, but you didn't know about them.

 

"To me a gang is a silly thing. I always thought that people need to stand on their hind legs like men instead of needing others to fight your battles for you, "

That works just fine- until you come up against a gang who, for example, want to take your money.

[JustinW]

imatfaal,

 

Stop imprisoning 1 percent of the adult population and then the state/government might be able to control those that are in prison.

I can definitely agree with that. I particularly think the war on drugs is mostly to blame for the amount of people that are inprisoned in the US. It's so harsh in some states that you get less time for violent crimes than you do a charge. It seems rediculous to me.

 

 

John,

 

You said you doubted that it would cut down on gang violence. I still believe that it would. I'm not saying that it would stop it, but I think it might have an impact if the main reason for joining a gang is taken away.

 

 

 

The truth is that people form cliques. In prison those can become gangs.

 

Sure there would still be gangs. People will always gather around what's familiar. How am I arguing against myself? I've never said that it would stop gangs or gang violence. I was just saying that it would have an impact. You said yourself that the most prevailant factor in gang admission was race. If that is taken away you don't think it would have an impact?

 

 

Well, my best guess is that there were gangs, but you didn't know about them.

They must hide pretty well. I can see it now, gangs are forming through out the woods of America. (man they need to make that into a movie) Of course it would have to be a sci-fy movie, because there were no gangs where I grew up. I knew just about everyone in my community. The town I grew up in only had a church and a post office. It's not likely the preacher was cliqueing up against Mrs. Mack. The nearest town was about 20 miles away and that only had 1 store, a church, and a school. Trust me, if there was a gang I would have known about it.

 

 

"To me a gang is a silly thing. I always thought that people need to stand on their hind legs like men instead of needing others to fight your battles for you, "

That works just fine- until you come up against a gang who, for example, want to take your money.

I guess. I keep forgetting that things work differently in bigger populations.

[questionposter]

The reason black people have a worse rap isn't because people themselves are racist, it's because of how the prison is set up. Let's look at a situation:

There are two young men charged with a crime, one is white, one is black, no one on the jury is racist, the judge isn't racist, and they will both get sent to prison for the same amount of time. They both get convicted and put on probation, and with probation there's some rules like you have to spend a lot of time at your house and you can't hang out with the people that got you in trouble, and you have to be in school. So, the white person simply goes back to school and lives at his parents house, graduates and moves on with his life. But, the black person is a high-school drop-out and doesn't have enough money to go to a college and maybe their parents kicked hi out because they wanted him to get a job, so he get's sent to jail or prison for not being in school.

It's not racism, it's that the system itself doesn't consider the human circumstances people have, and it's not to say that there aren't poor white people, but there are more poor black people in the US than white. When you get accused of something, the justice system treats your entire life as that crime and removes the humanity from you.

Edited April 17, 2012 by questionposter

[JustinW]

questionposter,

 

Those circumstances could fit a white person just as easily.

 

And I have never heard of those kinds of parole stipulations except in juvenile cases. In any case, in the free world, I don't think we should set our rules to suppliment peoples situations. Everyone has an equal opportunity, it just depends on what you do with that opportunity that decides your fate. These people chose to go to prison. The consequence of that is parole stipulations. Most of which only deal with work, weapons, and drugs. They don't mandate that adults go to college because they can't mandate someone to buy a service or product.

 

If they can't handle parole, then they shouldn't go to prison. The rape is a different story. Since they are under OUR lock and key this makes it OUR responsibility to keep them from harm.

Edited April 17, 2012 by JustinW

[imatfaal]

The rape is a different story. Since they are under OUR lock and key this makes it OUR responsibility to keep them from harm.

 

QFT. Your point on the mad war on drugs was spot on too!

 

In other countries the gang problem still occurs and can be based on sect/religion (that's a problem we have in the UK), on home town, on football club (hello again from the UK), and on any reason you can think of really - we can be incredibly clannish at the best of times; with the incredibly pressure of incarceration in over-crowded and violent penitentiaries this natural (?) urge to seek similar to oneself and cleave to them is massively increased.

[questionposter]

questionposter,

 

Those circumstances could fit a white person just as easily.

 

And I have never heard of those kinds of parole stipulations except in juvenile cases. In any case, in the free world, I don't think we should set our rules to suppliment peoples situations. Everyone has an equal opportunity, it just depends on what you do with that opportunity that decides your fate. These people chose to go to prison. The consequence of that is parole stipulations. Most of which only deal with work, weapons, and drugs. They don't mandate that adults go to college because they can't mandate someone to buy a service or product.

 

If they can't handle parole, then they shouldn't go to prison. The rape is a different story. Since they are under OUR lock and key this makes it OUR responsibility to keep them from harm.

If you think everyone has an equal opportunity, you really haven't seen much of the world and you need more time away form the computer. That information wasn't even from me, it was from a seminar I want to where a minister of justice who now works in restorative justice who was a former attorney spoke about these issues involving statistics with races and the fact that black people are more likely to be convicted and sent to prison than a white person, and that was part of his explanation, and I don't see how its illogical.

The places people are born in definitely matter to this. Many of the black people are probably mad that there are so many more black people in prison and the fact that they are more likely to get convicted (not prosecuted, convicted, there's a difference). There's also that recent Martin shooting, and things like that were happening to minorities way before that. It's also sort of a cycle. When slavery was abolished in the US, black people still didn't have the right to vote, and many people wouldn't hire them over a white person, and if they did, it was for low pay, and this was all pretty recent that black people gained many rights.

 

Actually, the statistical reason that white people get raped in prison more could be because there are so fewer white people in prison that they stand out more.

Edited April 18, 2012 by questionposter

[JustinW]

questionposter,

 

If you think everyone has an equal opportunity, you really haven't seen much of the world and you need more time away form the computer.

You explain how and I'll tell you how your wrong.

 

 

That information wasn't even from me

Well, you should watch out who you listen to then, because the school stipulation was flat out wrong. Which makes the whole justification suspect in my mind.

 

 

the fact that black people are more likely to be convicted and sent to prison than a white person, and that was part of his explanation, and I don't see how its illogical.

Did you ever think that black people commit more crime than whites at a level that reflects convictions. Also the current population of blacks in the US is over 40%, 43 I think it was but will have to look again for the exact number, which automatically puts them at a disadvantage where numbers are conscerned.

[Moontanman]

questionposter,

 

You explain how and I'll tell you how your wrong.

 

 

 

Well, you should watch out who you listen to then, because the school stipulation was flat out wrong. Which makes the whole justification suspect in my mind.

 

 

Did you ever think that black people commit more crime than whites at a level that reflects convictions. Also the current population of blacks in the US is over 40%, 43 I think it was but will have to look again for the exact number, which automatically puts them at a disadvantage where numbers are conscerned.

 

Want to rethink that Justin?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

 

 

Race and ethnicity

 

Main articles: Americans, Racial and ethnic demographics of the United States, and Hyphenated American

The U.S. population's distribution by race and ethnicity in 2010 was as follows:[43]

Race / Ethnicity Number Percentage of

U.S. population

Americans 308,745,538 100.0 %

White 223,553,265 72.4 %

Black or African American 38,929,319 12.6 %

American Indian or Alaska Native 2,932,248 0.9 %

Non-Hispanic Asian 14,674,252 4.8 %

Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander 540,013 0.2 %

Some Other Race 19,107,368 6.2 %

Two or more races 9,009,073 2.9 %

Not Hispanic or Latino 258,267,944 83.7 %

Non-Hispanic White 196,817,552 63.7 %

Non-Hispanic Black or African American 37,685,848 12.2 %

Non-Hispanic American Indian or Alaska Native 2,247,098 0.7 %

Non-Hispanic Asian 14,465,124 4.7 %

Non-Hispanic Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander 481,576 0.2 %

Non-Hispanic Some Other Race 604,265 0.2 %

Non-Hispanic Two or more races 5,966,481 1.9 %

Hispanic or Latino 50,477,594 16.3 %

White Hispanic 26,735,713 8.7 %

Black or African American Hispanic 1,243,471 0.4 %

American Indian or Alaska Native Hispanic 685,150 0.2 %

Asian Hispanic 209,128 0.1 %

Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander Hispanic 58,437 0.0 %

Some Other Race Hispanic 18,503,103 6.0 %

Two or more races Hispanic 3,042,592 1.0 %

Total 308,745,538 100.0%

[questionposter]

questionposter,

 

You explain how and I'll tell you how your wrong.

 

Are you serious? Ok, most basic but common example in the world: A kid born to rich parents in the US, a kid born in Rwanda where they are forced to become a solider.

In the US, there are still remnants of the era of segregation, so a much greater percentage of the black population is poor and there's even still some discrimination at jobs and with stereotypes.

 

 

 

Well, you should watch out who you listen to then, because the school stipulation was flat out wrong. Which makes the whole justification suspect in my mind.

I don't think you have any sort of degree in law.

 

 

Did you ever think that black people commit more crime than whites at a level that reflects convictions. Also the current population of blacks in the US is over 40%, 43 I think it was but will have to look again for the exact number, which automatically puts them at a disadvantage where numbers are conscerned.

 

That's called racial profiling. Whether or not black people actually commit crimes, we can't determine, but we can determine they get convicted at a much higher rate, and it's because of scenarios like the one I presented where there's not much they can really do.

Edited April 18, 2012 by questionposter

[JustinW]

Moontanman,

 

I stand corrected on the numbers. I think I know where I got that number confused now that I look back. I believe my thoughts were mixed up with population by the millions with percentage. The 12.6% equals out to roughly 38 million. I think that's where I got confused. (That'll teach me for speaking without double checking myself)(Probably not)

 

 

 

Questionposter,

Are you serious? Ok, most basic but common example in the world

You're damn right I'm serious. We weren't talking about the world. We were talking about prison populations and convictions rates. I knew somehow that poor parents would be brought into the mix. So now we have to be responsible for peoples parents being poor? I've always found this excuse to be outrageous. Parents are responsible for passing down genetic conditions to their children, we don't blame things like that on society, why is it different for living conditions? It seems as though it would be parents responsibility on both scores. In todays society everyone has an equal opportunity. An equally poor white person has the same exact opportunity as an equally poor black person. That condition is a direct result on the decisions of the parents. God forbid the time comes when people have to accept responsibility for themselves. That would just be too cruel.

 

 

I don't think you have any sort of degree in law.

 

You don't need a law degree for that. You just need experience.

 

Whether or not black people actually commit crimes, we can't determine, but we can determine they get convicted at a much higher rate

In my mind conviction reflects action. Are you suggesting that black people are WRONGLY convicted at such an extremely disproportianate rate?

 

If someone is getting convicted more, I would say that they need to quit commiting crimes. If someone is disproportionately poorer, I would say, get a freakin' job. Why is not that simple? Who is the cause? You? Me? People we know? It seems like the most popular excuse is to blame it on the white man. Might as well.

[imatfaal]

 

 

In my mind conviction reflects action. Are you suggesting that black people are WRONGLY convicted at such an extremely disproportianate rate?

 

If someone is getting convicted more, I would say that they need to quit commiting crimes. If someone is disproportionately poorer, I would say, get a freakin' job. Why is not that simple? Who is the cause? You? Me? People we know? It seems like the most popular excuse is to blame it on the white man. Might as well.

 

they don't need to be wrongly convicted for racial profiling to be misleading and discriminatory. Take this simplified example

 

10,000 people in town

1,000 of the townsfolk smoke dope

 

10% of the population (and of the dopesmokers) are black. So same percentage of those flouting anti-drug laws in both black and white members of the community.

 

100 white people and 100 black people are pulled over whilst driving and tested for possibility of having smoked dope.

10 white and 10 black are found to have thingamagigs in their bloodstream which indicate have smoked dope.

10 white people from sector of population of 9000 are convicted - which is a fraction over 0.1 percent

10 black people from sector of population of 1000 are convicted - which is 1 percent.

 

so of course racial profiling "works" - by its very nature it distorts figures and is prejudicial

[questionposter]

So now we have to be responsible for peoples parents being poor? I've always found this excuse to be outrageous. Parents are responsible for passing down genetic conditions to their children, we don't blame things like that on society, why is it different for living conditions?

 

There's a special saying for people like you, and it's "your creating the world you want to live in". If your not going to bother to even put a tiny bit of energy into caring about other people, its likely people will treat you the same, so if that is truly the type of world you want to live in, you can keep acting that way if you so desire, but many people know better and know how a society works, so they at least put some effort into trying to support others.

 

Being poor is not a genetic disease or condition, it is an economic circumstance someone happens to find themselves in. More black people are poor because they often still don't get as many opportunities as a white person. A white person will often get hired over a black person, probably because people like you happen to be a manager, and their ancestors were never educated after slavery was abolished, so they lacked education to teach to the next generation, and being poor, they could not send their kids to school since public schools use to actually cost money.

 

If someone is getting convicted more, I would say that they need to quit commiting crimes. If someone is disproportionately poorer, I would say, get a freakin' job. Why is not that simple? Who is the cause? You? Me? People we know? It seems like the most popular excuse is to blame it on the white man. Might as well.

 

Assuming black people commit more crimes when white people make up 70% of the US population, otherwise known as racial profiling.

 

This is why restorative justice exists, because modern justice isn't infallible and it doesn't consider anything beyond its own set parameters. Do you think it's right for a person to go to jail just because they can't get a job and don't have enough money to go to school? The question isn't whether or not they were wrongly convicted anyway, it's whether or not their conviction was ultimately fair.

 

If you think about it, it's kind of hard for black prisoners to not dislike white people.

Edited April 19, 2012 by questionposter

[JustinW]

There's a special saying for people like you, and it's "your creating the world you want to live in

Must not be too special or more people would have heard it before. Maybe it just needs to be a little catchier before people start to pick up on it.

 

If your not going to bother to even put a tiny bit of energy into caring about other people, its likely people will treat you the same, so if that is truly the type of world you want to live in, you can keep acting that way if you so desire, but many people know better and know how a society works, so they at least put some effort into trying to support others.

Mandating that I treat people differently because of the color of there skin isn't right and I don't see why people think it is. The rules are equal for everyone. The problem is in how those people treat others, and even then shouldn't be dictated.

 

 

Being poor is not a genetic disease or condition

My point was that it is handed down from the parents. Either that or it is direct result of bad decision making. Am I wrong?

 

The genetic condition analogy was to say that other things are passed down by parents. I don't know why their bad choices shouldn't be handed down also without someone calling for a rule change that gives one race an advantage over the other. After all the talk about equality I would think this would be against that principle.

 

A white person will often get hired over a black person, probably because people like you happen to be a manager, and their ancestors were never educated after slavery was abolished, so they lacked education to teach to the next generation, and being poor, they could not send their kids to school since public schools use to actually cost money.

Are you saying that this is still the case? If not then why use it as an excuse?

 

Do you think it's right for a person to go to jail just because they can't get a job and don't have enough money to go to school?

WHO goes to jail because they can't get a job or go to school. That makes absolutely no sense, unless you're using that as an excuse to commit crime. Which is also unacceptable.

 

If you think about it, it's kind of hard for black prisoners to not dislike white people.

If you think about it, the flip side is true as well.

[questionposter]

Must not be too special or more people would have heard it before. Maybe it just needs to be a little catchier before people start to pick up on it.

According to my Nephew they are teaching that phrase in high school.

 

Mandating that I treat people differently because of the color of there skin isn't right and I don't see why people think it is. The rules are equal for everyone. The problem is in how those people treat others, and even then shouldn't be dictated.

Many (but not all) of the laws of the US constitution apply equally to every citizen, but that doesn't mean things can't ever be unfair.

 

 

My point was that it is handed down from the parents. Either that or it is direct result of bad decision making. Am I wrong?

It's not a bad decision or a direct result. No one chooses to be born to any specific person, and it's not their fault the US constitution didn't mandate right away that they should be educated. It wasn't until Linden B. Johnson or shortly after him that the President actually used the military to force schools to accept black people after the repeal of the Plessy vs Ferguson law. And even if it was illegal to be discriminate, many police officers often didn't listen to the complaints of black people. In fact, even when black people did have the right to vote under the constitution, they were still often intimidated away, and in the south they were arrested or lynched. I wouldn't really say it's their fault they're poor, I would say they are poor because not enough has been done to combat the after effects of that era of segregation.

 

The genetic condition analogy was to say that other things are passed down by parents.

And you think that is fair?

 

I don't know why their bad choices shouldn't be handed down also without someone calling for a rule change that gives one race an advantage over the other. After all the talk about equality I would think this would be against that principle.

 

So if you were an African American who earned only about $30,000 dollars a year or less with kids to support, you would blame everything on yourself then? Also, the point of ending segregation via the constitution of the united states is to make "one race gaining an advantage over another" and utterly meaningless phrase.

 

Are you saying that this is still the case? If not then why use it as an excuse?

 

It is still the case, and not just for black people, but for gay/lesbians, Latinos in the south,, Native Americans and many other groups.

 

WHO goes to jail because they can't get a job or go to school. That makes absolutely no sense, unless you're using that as an excuse to commit crime. Which is also unacceptable.

Many probations require you be in school, so if you dropped out of school because you had to help your poor mother work and get money for the family and can't afford college, your screwed.

And if you think that didn't make sense, think about this: There's two main types of cocaine. There's crack cocaine and powdered cocaine, and there isn't much of a difference between the two, they are both the same drug just in a different form. However, the white population tends to use powder cocaine over crack cocaine, and the black community tends to use crack cocaine more than powdered, but guess what? The prison time for crack cocaine is 10 times more than for powder cocaine. So black people go to prison for 10 times longer for using the same drug as a white person.

 

If you think about it, the flip side is true as well.

 

Maybe if they get raped by a black person, but other than that, I wouldn't see why.

Edited April 19, 2012 by questionposter

[Green Xenon]

85% of prison rapes in the USA are comitted by Black men, despite black men only constituting 41% of the prison population.

 

Most prison rapes in the USA are comitted by black men on white men.

The phenomena of blacks exclusively raping whites has been substantially documented since the 1960s. Both quantitative and qualitative data show that blacks exclusively raping whites has been constant. sources: Davis 1968; Jones 1976; Nacci 1978; Nacci and Kane 1984; Bowker 1980; Lookwood 1980; Starchild 1990

 

For every year in an American prison, a prisoner on average has a 6% chance of being raped. If someone is in prison for 15 years, probability is not in their favor. :frown:

 

 

Rape and Racism: Black Rapists, White Victims

 

A special complicating problem for American prisons is that they are racially integrated institutions (Buffum 1982, p. 104). The oppressive characteristics of race relations in the society as a whole penetrates the relationships between whites and blacks inside prisons (Buffum 1982, p. 104). Scacco (1982, p. 91) argues that the issue of racism predominates as a central point in sexual victimisation within correctional institutions. It has even been cited as being the single most important socio-demographic characteristic associated with victimisation. These statistics may be due to the over-representation of minorities in prisons. However, rapes are not randomly distributed within the prison population, especially with respect to race (Bowker 1980, p.7).

 

In American prisons, studies by sociologists suggest that more than 90% of rapes are inter-racial and may be motivated more by a need for sexual dominance over another race than by sexual passions (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Many rapes are by blacks on whites, suggesting that it gives the lower-class black, who has felt trod upon all his life, his one chance to dominate a white person (Starchild 1990, p. 145). Consequently, the victims are almost always young white prisoners. (Scacco 1982, p. 91) has also noted a disproportionate number of black aggressors and white victims in studies of sexual assaults in jails and prisons. Even if the minority of prisoners are black, the minority of victims are white (Scacco 1982, p. 91). When 'targets' were asked to identify their aggressors at the time of their rape, most were black (80%), some were Hispanic (14%), and a few were white (6%). (Lookwood 1980, p. 28 ) At the Tennessee State Penitentiary, when asked about the races of the aggressors and victims in rape incidents, nearly all whites agreed that the aggressors were black and the victims were white (Bowker 1980, p. 8 ). However, Bowker did note that most black respondents claimed that both blacks and whites raped whites frequently, and there were occasions when blacks raped blacks. As discussed, it is unusual for either black or Chicano youngsters to be 'turned out'. The blacks and Mexicans-Americans tend to look out for their own and will not turn out one of their own race (Wooden and Parker 1982, p.106).

 

 

"I'm a 36 year old white male. heterosexual. raped by black inmates in

1978, still have nightmares and afraid of one day my mind snapping. The

Texas prison system lacks in professional counselors to talk to and the

psychologist either dont want to talk or want you to take drugs.

After the incident I asked to be put in PC and they refused so I wrote the

FBI, who came to see me but not before I was taken into a room with the

"warden" and threatened if I didn't tell the Feds to forget the whole thing

my life would be made real uncomfortable there. So I blew it off...and I

stabbed one of the black M.F.'s that raped me about 6 times with a pair

of 6" scissors. I wasn't caught and I don't know if he died or what.... I

don't need the added pressures of being labeled a punk."

— M., from Beaumont, Texas

 

 

 

Prisons are already segregated by gender; Perhaps the prisons should also be racially segregated.

 

The plain truth is that racially segregated prisons would drastically reduce prison rapes, and prevent the spread of AIDS, both within the prison, and to the outside world. Prisons are one of the primary breeding grounds for AIDS, not least of which because rape and anal intercourse carry a much higher probabibility of sexual transmission (both rapes and anal intercourse are much "rougher", leading to microtearing of skin. even when a condom is used, chances of transmission of disease are still higher)

http://www.politicalforum.com/health-care/225740-aids-rife-black-community.html

 

But the "progressives" refuse to look at the facts. Their ideology of racial integration must override any and all problems that such policies may cause. If there is a serious problem in America's prisons, there needs to be a serious solution. Multiracialist politicians and media are ignoring and refusing to discuss the issue.

 

I think most prisoners would prefer to be amongst their own kind (racially), if given the option. There is obviously much race-based violence happening in prisons. Segregation could dramatically reduce violence. Putting prisoners in a situation where they have such a high chance of being infected with HIV against their will is inhumane. Racial segregation would thus give prisoners more rights than racial integration.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2W8lgVUeA&feature=related

 

The only way to stop prison-rape is to put all inmates in a comatose state while they serve their sentence. Sadly, this practice will never happens because human-society is sadistic and wants to cause as much suffering to individuals as possible. People want to make other people suffer. Prison-rape is one of the ways society gets pleasure from observing the stronger abuse the weaker. That is why prisons were invented in the 1st place. It's not to make an inmate a "better" person but rather to make the sadists who run the prison-system salivate to the horrific mistreatment of weaker bubbas by stronger bubbas.

 

Prison rape is an horrific feature of American prisons.

 

It's not limited to America. It happens all over the world in almost equal amounts.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Green Xenon