Fertility Rates and Ethnic Resentment

[Anders Hoveland]

Different racial/ethnic groups have different fertility rates, and often these differences can be very significant. Some groups of people have many more babies than other groups of people, and this often contributes to ethnic resentment. Different ethnic groups often have different political interests, and higher fertility rates can alter the balance of power within the time frame of a few decades. Certain ethnic groups may make accusations that it is "not fair", or accuse women from another ethnicity of having too many babies with reckless abandon. This certainly can make a large segment of a society reluctant to provide help to its poor.

 

 

"Control, or the claim of control, over the means of reproduction has been more fundamental to history than control of the means of production"

— R. McElbaine, "Eve’s Seed: Biology, the Sexes & Course of History"

 

"We must understand that the most potent weapons of war are the penis and the womb. Therefore, if you cannot convince a group to control its population by discussion, debate, intelligent analysis etc., you must consider their action in using the penis & the womb to increase population, an Act of War."

— Judge Jason G. Brent, "Humans: An Endangered Species"

 

I suppose "The penis mightier than the sword" !

 

 

 

In "Narrow Roads of Gene Land" (volume 2) W. D. Hamilton argues that a basic cause of racism — and, particularly, of ethnically motivated genocide — is a differential birth rate between groups.

"I suggested it might be useful for us to discuss the psychology of population situations and to give special attention to those where closely placed or intermixed distinct groups had strikingly different rates of increase. In particular, it might be useful to consider what this might do to competitive birth rates and aggressive instincts connected with population perceptions. . . . we were all expected, as a result of population genetical processes—natural selection in fact— to have psychological biases that wouldn't necessarily be easily visible on the surface but whose reality would come to the fore in situations where these rapid changes in a population's composition were imminent. There was a matter of within, and between-group variances involved here, this applying to the very genes that made us. It wasn't necessary to such ideas, I added, that shortages of land or whatever would be apparent right when divisive psychology took effect; it would be in this nature of the group psychology to anticipate what might be about to happen. . . . If we really wanted to understand why population is a difficult issue to discuss and to do anything about it in the world, I continued . . . , it is very essential that we understand the evolutionary forces that have moulded reproductive and territorial psychology in humans— the features must be old, of course, started doubtless mainly in our Old Stone Age past. If we wanted to recommend policies to affect population trends in any direction today, we perhaps needed to discuss first the underlying motivations that all people had to possess— that must be there from the very fact that they themselves came form successful parentage and successful families of the past."

 

"Increase of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe in the span of the nineteenth century is said to have been almost fourfold (S. Jones, In the Blood: God, Genes and Destiny (HarperCollins, London, 1996)). This implies a doubling about every generation. Very surprisingly this fact seems almost never to be discussed as part causative background to the holocaust, an omission that continues even when claims of group competition are the focus (K. MacDonald, Separation and its Discontents (Praeger, Wesport, CT, 1998 )."

 

 

In South Africa, before the end of the white Apartheid government, The African National Congress (ANC) initially resorted to violence, intimidation, and terrorist tactics to consolidate power among the various Black factions. Reproduction was seen as one of the strategies to obtain an advantage in the conflict, and indeed the ANC eventually was able to consolidate power and obtain a virtual monopoly of power over South Africa. The ANC Youth League, composed of young men between 16 and 25 years old, brutally suppressed all opposition, using stabbings, and burning suspected opponents and small business owners alive by placing their body inside a rubber tire and igniting it with petrol. In the Province of Lebowa, for example, 72% of the total population were less than 20 years old.

 

Black girls were coerced to attend evening political assemblies: “They would come into the house and tell us we should go. They didn't ask your mother they just said 'come let's go'. You would just have to go with them. They would threaten you with their belts and ultimately you would think that if you refused, they would beat you. Our parents were afraid of them”. All those opposing the wishes of the young men were reminded, that it was every woman’s obligation to give birth to new “soldiers”, in order to replace those warriors killed in the liberation struggle. The idiom of the adolescents referred to these patriotic efforts as “operation production”. Because of exactly this reason it was forbidden for the girls to use contraceptives. Delius 1996:189; Niehaus 1999:250

 

 

For Hispanic fertility rates in the USA are also quite high. The fertility rate for women of Hispanic origin was 97.5 live births per 1,000 women aged 15-44 years, which is 50 percent higher than the rate for non-Hispanic women. For women of Mexican origin the rate was 112.3 per 1,000. National Center for Health Statistics, most recent statistics collected in 1981 (for comparison, the average american female fertility rate in 1976 was only 29.6 ) This does not even take into account that hispanics have children at earlier ages. Just like compounding interest, even a slightly higher rate will cause huge differential effects after being compounded over time. Partly because of high immigration levels, but more because of high fertility rates, Hispanics are expected to constitute the majority of the American population within three to four decades. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/08/latinos-will-be.html

 

"Multiculturalism, and Ethnic Conflict: A Rent-Seeking Perspective", Evan Osborne, Kyklos, Volume 53, Issue 4, pages 509–526, November 2000

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-6435.00131/abstract

 

 

[questionposter]

99.99% of all human DNA is the same, it seems doubtful people who just happen to have a different skin color would have such a different birth rate. It's more likely because Hispanic and black people are often poorer than white people in the US at least, so they can't afford condoms. In fact, that is exactly the case in certain parts of Africa where there's the aids outbreak. There's even many poor families effected by the aids outbreak, and they actually purposely have as many children as they can to increase the chances of one surviving because they know some are doing to die. If they could have afforded condoms in the first place though, they probably would have bought them. Things have gotten so bad there that even the pope was recommending giving away condoms.

Edited April 21, 2012 by questionposter

[Anders Hoveland]

99.99% of all human DNA is the same

I thought we have been over this already, again and again.

Humans and Chimpanzees share 98.8 percent of the same DNA. Obviously that 1.2% makes a big difference.

 

...AND YET SO DIFFERENT

If human and chimp DNA is 98.8 percent the same, why are we so different? Numbers tell part of the story. Each human cell contains roughly three billion base pairs, or bits of information. Just 1.2 percent of that equals about 35 million differences. Some of these have a big impact, others don't. And even two identical stretches of DNA can work differently—they can be "turned on" in different amounts, in different places or at different times. SAME GENES, BEHAVING DIFFERENTLY

Although humans and chimps have many identical genes, they often use them in different ways. A gene's activity, or expression, can be turned up or down like the volume on a radio. So the same gene can be turned up high in humans, but very low in chimps.

 

The same genes are expressed in the same brain regions in human, chimp and gorilla, but in different amounts. Thousands of differences like these affect brain development and function, and help explain why the human brain is larger and smarter.

 

 

It's more likely because Hispanic and black people are often poorer than white people in the US at least, so they can't afford condoms.

Oh, please! You expect us to believe they cannot afford condoms? How much does a condom cost?

In any event, people can get all the condoms they want if they know where to look, there are people handing them out all the time. Perhaps in Africa where most of the people are impoverished and live on less than 3 dollars a day. But not in the United States.

 

By the way, I strongly advocate for our Western governments to drop free condoms and birth control pills by helicopter into the poor neighborhoods and Africa. And not only should abortion clinics be free, the women should actually get paid a little token extra for their trouble!

Edited April 21, 2012 by Anders Hoveland

[questionposter]

I thought we have been over this already, again and again.

Humans and Chimpanzees share 98.8 percent of the same DNA. Obviously that 1.2% makes a big difference.

That is true, but as you can see, much of the difference between the .01 percent difference in humans is already being used up by physical features, and even muscular and blood differences (though a large blood difference is kind of rare, I'm mostly just referring to the sickle-cell anemia that some African people have that makes them immune to certain diseases and susceptible to others, though it has been generally found that on average black people have a greater physical muscle density than white people).

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, please! You expect us to believe they cannot afford condoms? How much does a condom cost?

In any event, people can get all the condoms they want if they know where to look, there are people handing them out all the time. Perhaps in Africa where most of the people are impoverished and live on less than 3 dollars a day. But not in the United States.

 

By the way, I strongly advocate for our Western governments to drop free condoms and birth control pills by helicopter into the poor neighborhoods and Africa. And not only should abortion clinics be free, the women should actually get paid a little token extra for their trouble!

 

How about you become poor and tell us how often you think about spending the little money you have on condoms and birth control when your pretty sure you can just time it right even though you don't have more medical knowledge than an average person?

It's not just races that reproduce at a higher rate, it's poor people in general that reproduce faster, and many black and Hispanic people are poorer than an average white person in the US, and the percentage that doesn't have much to do with being poor is just about lifestyle and environment.

http://www.neatorama...at-a-young-age/

If your poor its also more likely you face a harsher environment, which allows this process to take place.

Edited April 21, 2012 by questionposter

[JohnStu]

Most of the genes are the same, but those genes dont give you the identity. They are reponsible for protein synthesis and other basic stuff such as forming organs.

[swansont]

Different racial/ethnic groups have different fertility rates, and often these differences can be very significant. Some groups of people have many more babies than other groups of people, and this often contributes to ethnic resentment.

 

Could you please define the bolded term? And explain why it is asymmetric, i.e. why an ethnic minority can't resent the majority, but the opposite can happen? And why this is a problem?

 

 

Different ethnic groups often have different political interests, and higher fertility rates can alter the balance of power within the time frame of a few decades.

 

True also of religious affiliation or many other attributes. Please establish why this matters.

 

 

For Hispanic fertility rates in the USA are also quite high. The fertility rate for women of Hispanic origin was 97.5 live births per 1,000 women aged 15-44 years, which is 50 percent higher than the rate for non-Hispanic women. For women of Mexican origin the rate was 112.3 per 1,000. National Center for Health Statistics, most recent statistics collected in 1981 (for comparison, the average american female fertility rate in 1976 was only 29.6 ) This does not even take into account that hispanics have children at earlier ages. Just like compounding interest, even a slightly higher rate will cause huge differential effects after being compounded over time. Partly because of high immigration levels, but more because of high fertility rates, Hispanics are expected to constitute the majority of the American population within three to four decades. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/08/latinos-will-be.html

 

The problem with your argument is that the rates do not stay the same it drops corresponding with education level. First-generation immigrants have higher birth rates, but their educated offspring drop to lower levels.

http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/rb/RB_402LHRB.pdf

[hypervalent_iodine]

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Moderator Note

Anders, a quick revision course in our rules seems to be necessary here.

1. Be civil.

<...>

• Slurs or prejudice against any group of people (or person) are prohibited.

8. Preaching and "soap-boxing" (making topics or posts without inviting, or even rejecting, open discussion) are not allowed. This is a discussion forum, not your personal lecture hall. Discuss points, don't just repeat them.

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Moderator Note

Staff have received numerous complaints about the nature of your posts and while you haven't explicitly made any hate speech, the underpinning sentiments presented in your posts culminate to give the same effect. As such, they are in violation of rule 1c. and they are to stop.

This forum is not the place for soap boxing and it absolutely is not the place to air your grievances about people of non-Caucasian ethnicity. Anymore threads of this nature will be closed (this one is also closed). Any attempts hijack other threads with racial slurs will be removed. And if you keep this up, you will be suspended.