Atheism 2.0

[john5746]

I found this talk to be interesting. In it the speaker suggests that atheists can learn something from religion and should use the useful parts.

1) Education - Teach morality and how to live, not just information.
Use the sermon method and repetition more often.
Attach rituals to the calendar, nature and the body

2) Art - Art should be used for a purpose - for the betterment of humanity, not just
for arts' sake.
Art as a tool to celebrate our emotions and morality

3) Community/ Grouping - Religion scales very large effectively. We need a Wal-Mart or
Google for philosophy/morality.

Ideas, comments?

[imatfaal]

I dislike all of those aspects of religion; the preaching of morality ex cathedra, the ritualisation of otherwise mundane tasks, the hijacking art by religion, and the necessity of group-think. I agree it would change rationalism/atheism, and might make it more mainstream and accessible; but at a high cost I would not be willing to pay. Will listen/watch to the tedtalk later

 

Thanks for posting BTW - real food for thought even though I am not sure I like it.

[Arete]

In addition to what imatfaal said - art, morality and congregations all predate contemporary religiosity.

 

I would say that all three are components of the fundamental human condition and do not need to be learned from religious authority.

[Phi for All]

I liked the talk a great deal. The education part I feel is especially applicable. My teenager and I just had a talk this weekend about repeating things I've already said to her. She has a great memory and when I repeat something, I get, "I know, Dad", with the tone implying, "... I'm not an idiot!" I told her (maybe reminded her) that we know lots of things, but being reminded of them on a regular basis is important if we want them to be part of our daily functions.

 

I'm not sure how this would be received by an intellectual group of people who reject religion. I'm having a hard time convincing people in a political thread that PSA reminders about consumer processes that could help us save money would be beneficial. We all know these things, so why pay to remind ourselves? Well, if we want things to really stick with us, we repeat them often if we want to get really good at it (some call it practice, if it's a language or playing piano or chess or tennis). Perhaps ethical conduct would be more closely practiced if we heard what we already know about it repeated on a regular basis.

 

Sometimes we think we're too smart to hear things repeated. We're not idiots, Dad!

[doG]

I found the talk depressing. It suggests using the same indoctrination methods of controlling people that religion uses to abuse the control of people. I'd prefer to see people educated about humanism and skepticism than using religious ideologies rooted in fairy tale beliefs.

[Phi for All]

I found the talk depressing. It suggests using the same indoctrination methods of controlling people that religion uses to abuse the control of people. I'd prefer to see people educated about humanism and skepticism than using religious ideologies rooted in fairy tale beliefs.

I didn't get that at all. It's not the "religious ideologies rooted in fairy tale beliefs" he's promoting, it's the delivery vehicle he thinks should be emulated. Atheists don't get together regularly to talk about humanism, morality and ethics, so maybe we should set aside the time to do so. Atheists don't have holidays to celebrate the things we like about the world, so we use religious ones but just don't do the religious parts, so maybe we need our own. And organizing the communities is also something atheists could benefit from, especially to counteract political influence in countries like the US.

 

It doesn't have to be an "indoctrination" if there isn't any fixed "beliefs", does it? I don't see it as an attempt to "control the people" so much as a method for helping keep our ideals working at the forefront of our minds, and exposure to varied philosophies. Knowing there are others who share our lack of belief in deities and interacting with them could be a good thing, no?

[doG]

...so maybe we need our own...And organizing the communities is also something atheists could benefit from, especially to counteract political influence in countries like the US.

Visit The Brights' Net. We already work on all of the areas you're interested in with a growing collection of local community clusters.

[Phi for All]

Visit The Brights' Net. We already work on all of the areas you're interested in with a growing collection of local community clusters.

Cool! So what's the objection to using the methodology of reinforcing ethical qualities via repetition, congregation and calendaring?

[iNow]

My challenge with the idea is that people should not group together under the banner of atheism. It would be like grouping together every Sunday because neither of us believe in unicorns. Grouping together is great, as is sharing stories. Atheism, however, is not the correct umbrella under which those discussions should be aggregated IMO. It's not a religion. It's not a worldview. It's not an ideology. It's just a lack of belief in the existence of one or more deities.

 

As doG alluded to above, there is already humanism as a way to bring people together. That seems much more appropriate to me. It just doesn't feel right to come together and share stories because we stopped believing in santa claus god(s). I also seem to remember when this Sotten talk first came out it was bashed fairly heavily in the atheist blogs (why evolution is true, pharyngula, etc.). He also spoke of building churches, and that just boggles me. Church of atheism? Yeah... So much for intellectual consistency.

[doG]

Cool! So what's the objection to using the methodology of reinforcing ethical qualities via repetition, congregation and calendaring?

That's what the brights do....we just don't do it as atheists. The ideology is not about promoting the disbelief or lack in belief of god(s) but one of illuminating and elevating the naturalistic worldview. As such it is not Atheists 2.0.

[Phi for All]

I guess I missed the building churches part. I also don't think of it as celebrating atheism so much as making time for contemplating moral issues in a community of fellow humans. Atheism isn't a system obviously, but ethics and morality are becoming victims of our poorly funded public education and I think having a formal way to share these things with our families and neighbors would be beneficial.

[zapatos]

I dislike all of those aspects of religion; the preaching of morality ex cathedra, the ritualisation of otherwise mundane tasks, the hijacking art by religion, and the necessity of group-think. I agree it would change rationalism/atheism, and might make it more mainstream and accessible; but at a high cost I would not be willing to pay. Will listen/watch to the tedtalk later

What do you mean by the hijacking art by religion? Is it the use of art by religion, or are you talking about something else?

[doG]

...I think having a formal way to share these things with our families and neighbors would be beneficial.

Great. Care to start a local Bright's Community Cluster? You can find leadership information here

[questionposter]

Wow, I'm really surprised this is only now being talked about considering atheists have existed for as long as religion has existed. Of course it's more stable to follow some of people like Jesus's and Siddhartha's teaching, society wouldn't even form without people being decent to each other.