They kill foxes, don't they?

[Severian]

Im curious as to how many of you actually hunt.

 

In my own expierence the vast majority of people who dont hunt have no concept of the why hunters hunt or the range of "feelings" that they have. "Fun" in no way adequatly describes the hunt. For me it is a spiritual challenge that goes far beyond any mere amusement. If I was looking for fun' date=' I'd go get hammered or play some halo 2, halo 2, hmmmm, its calling me, gotta go.[/quote']

 

So you hunt, but have you ever been hunted? Don't you feel the want to experience the 'spiritual challenge' from the other side?

 

When I was young my family had problems with the hunt on our land. They would chase the fox onto our land and cause lots of damage, knocking down fances (letting cattle loose), breaking gates, terrifying the animals etc. They caused so much of a problem that we took out a court order banning them from our land (in Scotland, by default, you can have 'though' access to all land). We were surprised that the foxes learned that the hunt would not cross our boundary, and would often run to our land for sanctuary. We would quite often find the bodies of foxes on our land who had collapsed and died from exhaustion.

[Severian]

Im curious as to how many of you actually hunt.

 

In my own expierence the vast majority of people who dont hunt have no concept of the why hunters hunt or the range of "feelings" that they have. "Fun" in no way adequatly describes the hunt. For me it is a spiritual challenge that goes far beyond any mere amusement. If I was looking for fun' date=' I'd go get hammered or play some halo 2, halo 2, hmmmm, its calling me, gotta go.[/quote']

 

So you hunt, but have you ever been hunted? Don't you feel the want to experience the 'spiritual challenge' from the other side?

 

When I was young my family had problems with the hunt on our land. They would chase the fox onto our land and cause lots of damage, knocking down fances (letting cattle loose), breaking gates, terrifying the animals etc. They caused so much of a problem that we took out a court order banning them from our land (in Scotland, by default, you can have 'though' access to all land). We were surprised that the foxes learned that the hunt would not cross our boundary, and would often run to our land for sanctuary. We would quite often find the bodies of foxes on our land who had collapsed and died from exhaustion.

[Aardvark]

If the population is needed to be controllled then there will be other ways to do it. Right now its automatically assumed that hunting is the only way to do it. No research has gone into alternatives (not that i have heard of anyway)

 

Also about leather shoes and hamburgers' date=' the thing is nothing comes out of the foxes carcass, it doesnt provide with anything like meat etc. the only thing it would provide would be the fur, but it nowdays its too controversial for anyone to buy it.[/quote']

 

Quite a lot of research has gone into alternatives, they basicaly come down to shooting, gassing or poisoning.

 

And foxes aren't killed for meat of fur. They are killed because they are vermin. Taking meat is not needed to provide a moral justification for killing the fox.

 

Skye mentioned a type of fox bait which could be used. I'd be very unhappy to have poison baits placed around the countryside. I certainly don't want to risk my dog or an inquisitive childs life that way.

[Aardvark]

If the population is needed to be controllled then there will be other ways to do it. Right now its automatically assumed that hunting is the only way to do it. No research has gone into alternatives (not that i have heard of anyway)

 

Also about leather shoes and hamburgers' date=' the thing is nothing comes out of the foxes carcass, it doesnt provide with anything like meat etc. the only thing it would provide would be the fur, but it nowdays its too controversial for anyone to buy it.[/quote']

 

Quite a lot of research has gone into alternatives, they basicaly come down to shooting, gassing or poisoning.

 

And foxes aren't killed for meat of fur. They are killed because they are vermin. Taking meat is not needed to provide a moral justification for killing the fox.

 

Skye mentioned a type of fox bait which could be used. I'd be very unhappy to have poison baits placed around the countryside. I certainly don't want to risk my dog or an inquisitive childs life that way.

[Douglas]

I would like to hear more of why u think hunting for foxes is better than not hunting for them. not just some comeback ' date=' that you think is witty..

but never mind, i voiced my opinion on this and im done.[/quote']

Actually bloodhound, I don't have an opinion on fox hunting.

 

I thought my witticism was pretty good.

[Douglas]

I would like to hear more of why u think hunting for foxes is better than not hunting for them. not just some comeback ' date=' that you think is witty..

but never mind, i voiced my opinion on this and im done.[/quote']

Actually bloodhound, I don't have an opinion on fox hunting.

 

I thought my witticism was pretty good.

[Dogtanian]

So you hunt' date=' but have you ever been hunted? Don't you feel the want to experience the 'spiritual challenge' from the other side?

 

When I was young my family had problems with the hunt on our land. They would chase the fox onto our land and cause lots of damage, knocking down fances (letting cattle loose), breaking gates, terrifying the animals etc. They caused so much of a problem that we took out a court order banning them from our land (in Scotland, by default, you can have 'though' access to all land). We were surprised that the foxes learned that the hunt would not cross our boundary, and would often run to our land for sanctuary. We would quite often find the bodies of foxes on our land who had collapsed and died from exhaustion.[/quote']

My Grandad had the same problems with fox hunters on his farm. Again he took the hunters to court over knocked down walls and worried animals. He repeatedly told the hunters not to come on his land. Repeatedly the hunters would come again and again. Churning up fields, knocking down more walls, worrying more animals.

Fox hunting isn't good for the coutnryisde, it's a menace to the countryside.

And foxes aren't that much of a problem as some make out. I never heard of my Grandad having serious problems from foxes, just those who wanted to hunt them.

I know cities have problems with foxes, but why do you think that might be? Could it be becasue they want to live somewhere safe, somewhere where they won't be chased by hounds? Somewhere the hunts never go?

[Dogtanian]

So you hunt' date=' but have you ever been hunted? Don't you feel the want to experience the 'spiritual challenge' from the other side?

 

When I was young my family had problems with the hunt on our land. They would chase the fox onto our land and cause lots of damage, knocking down fances (letting cattle loose), breaking gates, terrifying the animals etc. They caused so much of a problem that we took out a court order banning them from our land (in Scotland, by default, you can have 'though' access to all land). We were surprised that the foxes learned that the hunt would not cross our boundary, and would often run to our land for sanctuary. We would quite often find the bodies of foxes on our land who had collapsed and died from exhaustion.[/quote']

My Grandad had the same problems with fox hunters on his farm. Again he took the hunters to court over knocked down walls and worried animals. He repeatedly told the hunters not to come on his land. Repeatedly the hunters would come again and again. Churning up fields, knocking down more walls, worrying more animals.

Fox hunting isn't good for the coutnryisde, it's a menace to the countryside.

And foxes aren't that much of a problem as some make out. I never heard of my Grandad having serious problems from foxes, just those who wanted to hunt them.

I know cities have problems with foxes, but why do you think that might be? Could it be becasue they want to live somewhere safe, somewhere where they won't be chased by hounds? Somewhere the hunts never go?

[Dogtanian]

Quite a lot of research has gone into alternatives' date=' they basicaly come down to shooting, gassing or poisoning.

 

And foxes aren't killed for meat of fur. They are killed because they are vermin. Taking meat is not needed to provide a moral justification for killing the fox.

 

Skye mentioned a type of fox bait which could be used. I'd be very unhappy to have poison baits placed around the countryside. I certainly don't want to risk my dog or an inquisitive childs life that way.[/quote']

But hunting is one of the most wasteful(in terms of money spent killing a fox) of all methods to kill foxes. Hiring someone to shoot them would be much more cost effective and you could kill alot more too. If foxes are such a problem wouldn't a cost effective way involving just one person, who could kill many foxes a day be a better solution than having two dozen people, two dozen horses and 50 hounds who might only kill a couple of foxes per hunt?

[Dogtanian]

Quite a lot of research has gone into alternatives' date=' they basicaly come down to shooting, gassing or poisoning.

 

And foxes aren't killed for meat of fur. They are killed because they are vermin. Taking meat is not needed to provide a moral justification for killing the fox.

 

Skye mentioned a type of fox bait which could be used. I'd be very unhappy to have poison baits placed around the countryside. I certainly don't want to risk my dog or an inquisitive childs life that way.[/quote']

But hunting is one of the most wasteful(in terms of money spent killing a fox) of all methods to kill foxes. Hiring someone to shoot them would be much more cost effective and you could kill alot more too. If foxes are such a problem wouldn't a cost effective way involving just one person, who could kill many foxes a day be a better solution than having two dozen people, two dozen horses and 50 hounds who might only kill a couple of foxes per hunt?

[Aardvark]

But hunting is one of the most wasteful(in terms of money spent killing a fox) of all methods to kill foxes. Hiring someone to shoot them would be much more cost effective and you could kill alot more too. If foxes are such[/i'] a problem wouldn't a cost effective way involving just one person, who could kill many foxes a day be a better solution than having two dozen people, two dozen horses and 50 hounds who might only kill a couple of foxes per hunt?

 

Because it is not a question of money.

[Aardvark]

But hunting is one of the most wasteful(in terms of money spent killing a fox) of all methods to kill foxes. Hiring someone to shoot them would be much more cost effective and you could kill alot more too. If foxes are such[/i'] a problem wouldn't a cost effective way involving just one person, who could kill many foxes a day be a better solution than having two dozen people, two dozen horses and 50 hounds who might only kill a couple of foxes per hunt?

 

Because it is not a question of money.

[john5746]

I think foxes spread rabies in the UK. They might help keep the population of other vermin - 'rats' under control though. In any case, I would think there would be more efficient means of killing foxes. IMO, this would go under the majority rules - I don't think people have a 'right' to hunt foxes and I don't think foxes have a 'right' not to be hunted.

[john5746]

I think foxes spread rabies in the UK. They might help keep the population of other vermin - 'rats' under control though. In any case, I would think there would be more efficient means of killing foxes. IMO, this would go under the majority rules - I don't think people have a 'right' to hunt foxes and I don't think foxes have a 'right' not to be hunted.

[Ophiolite]

Foxes spread rabies in the UK! This is going to come as a great shock to the relevant government authorities.

The UK does not have rabies. The advantages of being an island and having had rigorously enforced quarantine regulations.

There are occasional incidents of a related virus in bats. (European bat lyssavirus, or EBL). Up to two hundred bats a year have been tested over the last fifteen years and only two were found to be infected. The only risk to humans is if they handle a bat without protective clothing. (Sadly exactly this occured about two years ago, resulting in the death of the individual.)

The virus that is found in the majority of infected European mammals is sylvatic rabies. It is unknown in the UK. Foxes in the UK do not have rabies.

[Ophiolite]

Foxes spread rabies in the UK! This is going to come as a great shock to the relevant government authorities.

The UK does not have rabies. The advantages of being an island and having had rigorously enforced quarantine regulations.

There are occasional incidents of a related virus in bats. (European bat lyssavirus, or EBL). Up to two hundred bats a year have been tested over the last fifteen years and only two were found to be infected. The only risk to humans is if they handle a bat without protective clothing. (Sadly exactly this occured about two years ago, resulting in the death of the individual.)

The virus that is found in the majority of infected European mammals is sylvatic rabies. It is unknown in the UK. Foxes in the UK do not have rabies.

[RICHARDBATTY]

I wouldn't mind hunting foxes with a rifle on foot but not the way its done now. What about mentaly ill humans with infecsious diseases. Could we hunt them down on horse back and watch dogs rip them to bits.

[RICHARDBATTY]

I wouldn't mind hunting foxes with a rifle on foot but not the way its done now. What about mentaly ill humans with infecsious diseases. Could we hunt them down on horse back and watch dogs rip them to bits.

[atinymonkey]

Foxes spread rabies in the UK! This is going to come as a great shock to the relevant government authorities.

 

Um, Foxes are the primary carrier for rabies. It's one of the reasons the population is controlled all across Europe and the US.

 

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/rabies.htm

http://www.rabavert.com/casesfx.html

 

The govenment is aware of the connection between foxes and rabies, it takes steps to prevent the migration of infected foxes:-

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199697/ldhansrd/pdvn/lds04/text/40506w03.htm (under the Channel Tunnel section).

 

But they are only reducing the chances, not eliminating them.

[Sayonara]

Foxes may be a carrier for rabies, but it is almost unheard of these days for them to pass it to humans.

 

It is possible, however, that most of the few reported canine infections come from encouters with foxes.

[atinymonkey]

Well yes, quite. Foxes are the primary, canines are the secondary. Then death follows.

[Radical Edward]

If foxes were really vermin' date=' then surely there are better ways to put them down than make hounds chase them while you are on horseback and watch the dogs tear the fox apart.

 

Anyone who has "fun" , whether it be upper. middle or lower class, by killing animals in such a bloody way must have something wrong with them and should be put down themselves[/quote']

 

the problem is that other methods of fox constrol have invariably been shown to cause more suffering to the fox than hunting.

[Radical Edward]

What about mentaly ill humans with infecsious diseases.

 

tories and republicans?

[Radical Edward]

But hunting is one of the most wasteful(in terms of money spent killing a fox) of all methods to kill foxes. Hiring someone to shoot them would be much more cost effective and you could kill alot more too. If foxes are such[/i'] a problem wouldn't a cost effective way involving just one person, who could kill many foxes a day be a better solution than having two dozen people, two dozen horses and 50 hounds who might only kill a couple of foxes per hunt?

 

but it is often important that money is actually spent. All of that money supports various industries in those regions, from leatherworking through to horse care, and the removal of the hunts will destroy all these livelihoods overnight, unless those people find something else to do. The problem then though is that the rich aristocrats who partake in this sport are now just going to take all their money to france and other places where hunting is still legal.

[Ophiolite]

Um' date=' Foxes are the primary carrier for rabies. It's one of the reasons the population is controlled all across Europe and the US.

[/quote']Looks like I was ambiguous. I was certainly not disputing that foxes can and do carry rabies, only stating that they do not do so in the UK becuase, to date, our quarantine has been efective.