Greatest I am Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric? Rhetoric is described as language that is not honest,sincere, or meaningful. I am French. French has no word that equates to freedom or freewill as understood by the English. This makes freedom and land of the free purerhetorical statements and basically a dishonest statement. These terms are ideasor a reality that are impossible to have. Freedom and free will then just becomes something that Iwould name as liberty. Liberty is described as permission especially to gofreely within specified limits. That says to me that we are only free to followthe rules of society and those in power. That being the case, is land of the free a true andmeaningful expression? Would it be more accurate to say land of liberty to followthe rules? Free will is defined as freedom of humans to make choicesthat are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention. Free will translates to being your own master and not havingyour will hampered by any outside influence not of your choosing. Does any law or divine command negate free will, freedom ofchoice and the notion of a ---- Land of the free? Regards DL
Phi for All Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric? Rhetoric is described as language that is not honest,sincere, or meaningful. This is a weak argument based on a False Dilemma. There are other possible answers. I am French. French has no word that equates to freedom or freewill as understood by the English. This makes freedom and land of the free purerhetorical statements and basically a dishonest statement. These terms are ideasor a reality that are impossible to have. Why would the shortcomings of the French language make any statement in English rhetorical or dishonest? Freedom and free will then just becomes something that Iwould name as liberty. Liberty is described as permission especially to gofreely within specified limits. That says to me that we are only free to followthe rules of society and those in power. Changing the definition of a word into something easier for you to argue against is a Strawman fallacy. That being the case [emphasis mine], is land of the free a true andmeaningful expression? Would it be more accurate to say land of liberty to followthe rules? Free will is defined as freedom of humans to make choicesthat are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention. Free will translates to being your own master and not havingyour will hampered by any outside influence not of your choosing. Does any law or divine command negate free will, freedom ofchoice and the notion of a ---- Land of the free? And this is a Begging the Question fallacy. You can't have a discussion with a premise where the conclusion is automatically assumed to be true. This OP is full of fallacious logic and I really don't see any reason why the thread should remain open. It has been reported and other staff members will decide if it has any merit. Greatest I Am, you keep opening threads like this. You need to stop proselytizing and start giving people something to actually discuss. If you really want a good topic, I would LOVE to discuss French politics. I find the French to be much more involved in their democracy than Americans are in theirs, and would enjoy a chance to find out why. But you have to stop making all our decisions for us in your thread openers.
questionposter Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) I don't see how the French don't have a word for "freedom" that can be understood in english, considering I can say "liberté" as a Freanch word, and the French fought against the Axis in WWII and gave the US the Statue of Liberty. The US isn't the perfect place, but honestly there is a lot of opportunity for people to rise up and live a rich life. Unfortunately though, there are still things like immigrants being abused and human trafficking as well as minimum wage abuse, but these things aren't present only in the US. Edited May 7, 2012 by questionposter
John Cuthber Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Never mind the linguistics, the simple answer is no. Evidence includes detention without any trial (or even decent evidence). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp And, perhaps more literally, the fact that more of their population are in prison that just about anywhere else. Or how about the need for a licence before you can buy a transformer in Texas. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/Forms/NAR-120.pdf Oh, I almost forgot. This isn't a list you want to be near the top of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Global_distribution As far as I can tell, only Americans think America is the land of the free.
swansont Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 ! Moderator Note The premise of the OP is flawed, and based on numerous logical fallacies, some of which are described in the responses. As such, this is closed.However, the topic may be re-introduced if it can be rephrased without biasing the discourse
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