Athena Posted May 13, 2012 Posted May 13, 2012 Zapatos "I was hoping this thread would stay on topic but I guess there is no such hope. So, here goes..." No one wanted this thread to stay on topic more than I did, but now I realize how fortunate I am that it did not. I have learned far more than I ever expected. Among the things I learned, is what the power to ban someone for not showing evidence, or not answering a question, can do to a thread and the course of a discussion. I wanted to ignore those who taking the thread off topic, and then realized they could claim I was violating rules, by ignoring the questions that have made the thread about me, instead of the subject. But now I know how someone brought up in front of the Star Chamber must have felt, and I am delighted by this insight into history. Zapatos "It starts in the very first sentence of the very first post, suggesting the mods might be up to no good". Quote Athena "moderators have accused others of doing things they might not be doing". What is wrong with what I said? Humans make mistakes, do they not? I am talking about our human folly. Nothing of bad intent was implied, and it most certainly was not said with bad intent. It is the number one reason for having a trial by a jury, because the many are more apt to come to the truth than one. Do you see the difference between my intent and what have been accused of doing? For me this whole thread is evidence of what I speak. Only a couple of people interpreted my intention of this thread correctly, and made it worth returning to. Others accepted the interpretation that I have acted with malice and intend to do harm. That is why trials are necessary. The quote is right, but it is the interpretation of it that makes all the difference. Did you notice the "might" in there? This is a question, not an accusation, and the question is asked because we make errors. Quote May I ask what makes a group of mods better than England's infamous Star Chamber? This one is rather obvious. What is obvious? The Star Chamber did not begin as a politically corrupt body of judges. It began as a more efficient way of handling cases, and everyone thought it was a good idea. The very same reason why forums do things the way are done. What matters here is not what the people have done, but how they are organized. We changed the organization of the justice system, to correct the problems that come being with human. I like to believe everyone's intentions are good, past and present, but we make errors, and this is the reason we attempt to organize ourselves to compensate for our humanness. It is way we have divided powers and trials by a jury of peers. Oh, and thanks to this thread, I got a deeper understanding of this. The jury must not be "us" against "them", as it is in all forums. I don't know it people are getting this concept? Question it if you don't understand, okay? This is sooo on topic! Athena- "Someone has been accusing me of very awful things, and even suggesting I am guilty of criminal charges". Zapatos-"Now you are suggesting that if one mod is annoyed with someone they will make up a rules violation just to get even". No that is not want I said. I said he was angry and the anger caused him to think mean things, and he projected that meanness on me. I also thought when the anger passed, he wanted to take back his words. Is the concept of projection understood? This is human error, and why it is important to check our judgment. Athena "It has been my experience, that when a mod becomes annoyed with someone", Zapatos "And not only is the annoyed mod unfair, but another mod will be willing to jettison his integrity to unjustly gang up on you". This is a prefect example is wrong with accusing someone of something and that person having no defense. Look at how much you have added to the information. You add that I am saying mods make up violations, and that another mod will be willing to jettison his integrity. I never said anything like that, but that thought is coming from your own mind, because in your mind that is logical, and you have projected your logic into me. But I didn't even come close to a thought like that. I am blown away that by the magic of our minds work, you can honestly believe that thought came from me. If you can accept that explanation came from your own mind, not my words, than you can realize the problem that I did say exist. This is what I mean by point of view. You are coming at me from a mod's point of view, and adding that point to view to what I said, distorting what said, to fit your logic. This is not your intention, is what humans do. Our brains put things together on a subconscious level, and play all kinds of tricks on us. As the well meaning judges of old, you are trying to make sense of everything, and where are there a blanks, you brain is offering you a logical explanation. You and the men of old are just human beings with good intentions. If you want I will google for a psychological explanation of what I just said, because if the words come from science instead of me, you might understand them differently. Coming from me, I am afraid you will see another "attack", instead of a scientific explanation of how judgment can be messed up. Athena- "In a short time another mod finds that this person is violating rules. It appears that the group effort is to protect the group, regardless of what group, children service people, the police, or mods... Zapatos- "I guess this one is up to personal interpretation, but what many seem to see as asking you to put up or shut up, you see as a personal attack". It is easy to show you want I have observed, but I think this should be handled in a pm. What you all do not seem to get, is how hard I am trying to handle this, and protect the dignity of mod too. I am not pointing my figure at one mod and accusing him of wrong doing. And just because what I believe is happening is what is happening, that doesn't mean anyone's intentions are bad. Athena- "The mods who are attacking me" ] Zapatos- "Pretty clearly suggesting that mods may be gaining access to your personal messages and surreptitiously deleting them in order to hide their own bad behavior and to suppress your defense". Quote Is it possible for mods to delete private messages? Now you are asking a mod to admit guilt of threatening you and admit they then deleted your personal messages. QuoteOne of you should pm, zapatos and confirm those accusations were made in a moment of emotional distress, and later, when better judgment was resumed, you decided to take back those words And of course since a mod destroyed the evidence, you cannot even defend yourself. Boy, you really worked at trying to prove how awful I am with that one. That is exactly the behavior I am talking when I speak of a point of view and what mods do. Thank you. Now here is my reply. Yes, I had a paranoid moment, and who wouldn't want to delete something said in at bad moment? Like you filled in blanks with your own logic, so I did I. That is part of being human. The Capt'n corrected me, and I realized I deleted the message myself, to prevent myself from replying to something so offensive. However, I found the pm in my email and posted it, without the mods name, to both protect myself and him. Again, if you had a bad moment, would you want someone posting it? On the other hand, I felt pressured to prove what I said did happen, so posted the thinking that full of malice and I assume were spoken in anger. In case you have not noticed, I really respect the Capt'n. I have turned to him a few times, and I like the way he handles things, and also how he stays out of things that do not interest him. I am really bored with this and I am sure everyone else is too. We can pick the rest up later if you still want to carry this on.
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