Help with an idea for an animated series

[TransformerRobot]

No, but I think you would be an idiot to think that many or most aliens are built that way.

Possible yes: probable no.

 

Well then I guess science fiction is crap now because it's unrealistic, unless it's not supposed to be realistic.

Edited May 8, 2012 by TransformerRobot

[TransformerRobot]

I have heard the argument that intelligence might be more likely to evolve in the form of a humanoid, much like the idea that a dolphin, an ichthyosaur, a shark, and a tuna are shaped the same way due to their environment. The idea is that our body shape is best for a tool using intelligence. I'm not sure if that can be supported in anyway but the main thing to remember is that even though all these animals have the same general body shape they are in fact quite different and even if an alien intelligence was humanoid it's doubtful our sex organs would be compatible even if they looked human enough to be sexually desirable... Humanoid could mean bigfoot, or something like this dinosaur...

 

 

It seems unlikely that something that evolved on another planet would be sexually appealing to a human (then again some humans are sexually attracted to animals and even inanimate objects)

 

One thing is for sure, even if they looked exactly like us cross fertilization would be about as likely as us reproducing with a pine tree, actually the pine tree would be more closely related genetically...

 

I was thinking about that sort of thing too!

 

For example:

 

If the creature was from a gas giant, it would look like this.

 

 

It would move it's body in a way that would push the gasses behind or underneath it to travel.

 

Or what about if it was a planet with a dangerous to touch surface but very tall structures of rock? The creature might look like this.

 

 

Obviously he wouldn't live on the ground because it's not safe for his kind, so they'd live in tall trees or rock structures for safety.

[anotherfilthyape]

Why do you care if this possibility is not yet part of your life? Be pragmatic! Or you care because you are writting sci-fi about it? If you are writing sci-fi you can do as you please, any option should work if you have the skill to handle it but remember; gorillas, orangutans and chimpanzee are anthropomorphic and so are furries but you are a zoophile if you do them!

[TransformerRobot]

Why do you care if this possibility is not yet part of your life? Be pragmatic! Or you care because you are writting sci-fi about it? If you are writing sci-fi you can do as you please, any option should work if you have the skill to handle it but remember; gorillas, orangutans and chimpanzee are anthropomorphic and so are furries but you are a zoophile if you do them!

 

That's the thing. I don't want my main character, a human, to have a romantic relationship with a surprisingly sexy alien, if it would count as bestiality. The big conflict with that is because, well, take a look at her:

 

 

Body language aside, I wanted to make her attractive to human males, but for the sake of creativity I made her an alien. She's even strong enough to lift 10 times her own weight (All of her people are built like that), and I figured that if she was human AND that strong, she'd be one of those gross muscular women instead.

[Joatmon]

She's even strong enough to lift 10 times her own weight (All of her people are built like that), and I figured that if she was human AND that strong, she'd be one of those gross muscular women instead.

The Nutcracker Sweet?

 

 

 

[TransformerRobot]

The Nutcracker Sweet?

 

I don't get the joke.

[Joatmon]

I don't get the joke.

It's a play on "Nutcracker suite by Tchaikovsky". With all that strength the suggestion is unless she's careful your "nuts" may be in danger.

 

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nuts

 

Edited May 9, 2012 by Joatmon

[TransformerRobot]

It's a play on "Nutcracker suite by Tchaikovsky". With all that strength the suggestion is unless she's careful your "nuts" may be in danger.

 

http://www.urbandict...e.php?term=nuts

 

Now I get it.

[anotherfilthyape]

That's the thing. I don't want my main character, a human, to have a romantic relationship with a surprisingly sexy alien, if it would count as bestiality. The big conflict with that is because, well, take a look at her:

 

Body language aside, I wanted to make her attractive to human males, but for the sake of creativity I made her an alien. She's even strong enough to lift 10 times her own weight (All of her people are built like that), and I figured that if she was human AND that strong, she'd be one of those gross muscular women instead.

 

Ok... She does not need to be an alien to be that strong... In fiction it can be explained by she being a genetically altered human, her green skin can come from the presence of chloroplasts, giving her photosynthesis, her higher strength can come from genetically made muscles that provide greater strength for lower mass (and she could be unique)... Personally I like colour green but I have never found it attractive in female human-like beings that have that colour (at least not Star Trek's green women, even from the movie that updated special effects, it looks too artificial, maybe because of contrast between white sclera and green skin...) but you can justify it in-story in any way... What constitutes sexually immoral can vary from culture to culture (I find it disgusting but in some places of Asia orangutans are sex slaves in brothels... From my point of view it is zoophilia but it is clear they do not consider it so).

[TransformerRobot]

Ok... She does not need to be an alien to be that strong... In fiction it can be explained by she being a genetically altered human, her green skin can come from the presence of chloroplasts, giving her photosynthesis, her higher strength can come from genetically made muscles that provide greater strength for lower mass (and she could be unique)... Personally I like colour green but I have never found it attractive in female human-like beings that have that colour (at least not Star Trek's green women, even from the movie that updated special effects, it looks too artificial, maybe because of contrast between white sclera and green skin...) but you can justify it in-story in any way... What constitutes sexually immoral can vary from culture to culture (I find it disgusting but in some places of Asia orangutans are sex slaves in brothels... From my point of view it is zoophilia but it is clear they do not consider it so).

 

Then what do I do about her tribal bodypaint? I really want to keep that aspect of her, so what culture would she be if she was human?

[anotherfilthyape]

Then what do I do about her tribal bodypaint? I really want to keep that aspect of her, so what culture would she be if she was human?

She could have been made in a secret lab somewhere in any jungle from the Amazon to the Polynesia to South East Asia to Africa... Just try finding the tribe about which you can get more info... Start with wikipedia (the one in English is very full of data) and then check some libraries for further data...

 

Edit:She could have been made in such a lab and then escaped to be taken by a local tribe... or she could have been in an airplane whn the airplane fell and a local tribe rescued her.

Edited May 11, 2012 by anotherfilthyape

[TransformerRobot]

She could have been made in a secret lab somewhere in any jungle from the Amazon to the Polynesia to South East Asia to Africa... Just try finding the tribe about which you can get more info... Start with wikipedia (the one in English is very full of data) and then check some libraries for further data...

 

Well, another idea I had was to make her a rebellious member of a Yanomami community in Brazil, but her native outfit (WARNING! Bare breasted tribal woman) looking like that? I read on a few sites that it was a loincloth, but close up it looks like the front half of a grass skirt painted red.

 

It's set in the distant future, so, as someone on deviantART suggested, I could just give her a bikini and say it's a hand-me-down she got from relief workers.

[anotherfilthyape]

Well, another idea I had was to make her a rebellious member of a Yanomami community in Brazil, but her native outfit (WARNING! Bare breasted tribal woman) looking like that? I read on a few sites that it was a loincloth, but close up it looks like the front half of a grass skirt painted red.

 

It's set in the distant future, so, as someone on deviantART suggested, I could just give her a bikini and say it's a hand-me-down she got from relief workers.

 

I doubt it is a grass skirt, it could be made from straw painted red or common cloth... Grass skirts are more common in Polynessia... I saw a very beautiful bora woman (boras are an ethnic community from the Amazon, from Peru) but if your person is from the future, the distant future, it could be an entirely fictional tribe, developed a la Mad Max from a catastrophe that left a small region as no one's land... and way backward... However in the present sobe tribes have not contact modern civilization yet and while tribes still follow old practices they have also started to use modern clothes to gifts from relief workers but what they bought through trade as tourism and other visitors are full of desire to invest in them (biologists that want them as guides or anthropologists or linguists that want to study them or their linguistic skill)...

[TransformerRobot]

Well, there's this tribe called Hoitoto in Peru's jungle. I particularly like their native dress for women and girls:

 

http://www.explorationsinc.com/PhotoGallery/amazon-tours-people/196-Amazon-Huitotos.html

http://www.explorationsinc.com/PhotoGallery/amazon-tours-people/200-Amazon-Huitotos.html

www.explorationsinc.com/PhotoGallery/amazon-tours-people/204-Amazon-Huitotos.html

http://www.explorationsinc.com/PhotoGallery/amazon-tours-people/203-Amazon-Huitotos.html

 

Then there's this recreated Amazon tribal dance:

 

Pay attention to how the girl handling the snake is dressed.

[anotherfilthyape]

Well, there's this tribe called Hoitoto in Peru's jungle. I particularly like their native dress for women and girls:

 

http://www.explorati...n-Huitotos.html

http://www.explorati...n-Huitotos.html

www.explorationsinc.com/PhotoGallery/amazon-tours-people/204-Amazon-Huitotos.html

http://www.explorati...n-Huitotos.html

 

Then there's this recreated Amazon tribal dance:

 

Pay attention to how the girl handling the snake is dressed.

 

Huitoto, not hoitoto, the spellin is different (it sounds "woo-ee-tot-o'")

 

This is a bora, I was refering to:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=354680407919848&set=a.168068279914396.48427.100001336764560&type=3

 

but if it is in the distant future who is to say the tribe has succeeded in not being affected by modern civilization? you can make up your own tribes because the future can, by any explanation you device, have its own tribes... or if you want it to be more like a tribe we know of now the tribe can be one tribe that is niot yet known to modern civilization and you can device it as you want (but their bamboo tech would not use bamboo unless you explain that bamboo now grows there too, they can only use objects that grow locally)

Edited May 11, 2012 by anotherfilthyape

[TransformerRobot]

Well I mostly want her to come from a tribe where women get to wear loincloths, because I'm tired of women in loincloths being mostly fantasy characters. Plus, loincloths are more functional on women than men when you think about the biological differences.

 

I was thinking of her being from a South American tribe because it would be closer to Canada (Where her boyfriend is from and what country her racing team represents), but I'd have to give her a bikini or cover her up with vegetation because most tribal women in that area don't wear clothes normally. As you can guess I still want her to look sexy most of the time for added audience appeal.

[anotherfilthyape]

Well I mostly want her to come from a tribe where women get to wear loincloths, because I'm tired of women in loincloths being mostly fantasy characters. Plus, loincloths are more functional on women than men when you think about the biological differences.

 

I was thinking of her being from a South American tribe because it would be closer to Canada (Where her boyfriend is from and what country her racing team represents), but I'd have to give her a bikini or cover her up with vegetation because most tribal women in that area don't wear clothes normally. As you can guess I still want her to look sexy most of the time for added audience appeal.

 

With the distance between Canada and the Amazon the matter is pretty much a moot point, it can be anywhere else in the world and you would still need to travel by plane... I recommend you a partial doomsday scenario where the US has been destroyed in an atomic war, since it is the distant future that can explain tribal features appearing in the USA that will allow you to have a culture much closer to Canada... A native USA culture with elements from the time the USA wasteland was ruled by the WASPs...

[TransformerRobot]

Well, when I still had her as an alien, her home planet was filled with trees everywhere, even a few in their lakes and rivers. Because trees were only to be used for shelter and food sources, logging on her planet was punishable by death, as demonstrated in this promo I made for the show:

 

Click here to watch it.

 

So what if in the 22nd century Brazil has made it punishable by death, or at least life in prison, to cut down ANY part of the Amazon. Thus the entire ecosystem is a government protected area and off limits to loggers. The Amazon natives would be able to adjust to such a law more easily than city dwellers, don't you think?

 

On a related note, you may want to read this.

[anotherfilthyape]

Well, when I still had her as an alien, her home planet was filled with trees everywhere, even a few in their lakes and rivers. Because trees were only to be used for shelter and food sources, logging on her planet was punishable by death, as demonstrated in this promo I made for the show:

 

Click here to watch it.

 

So what if in the 22nd century Brazil has made it punishable by death, or at least life in prison, to cut down ANY part of the Amazon. Thus the entire ecosystem is a government protected area and off limits to loggers. The Amazon natives would be able to adjust to such a law more easily than city dwellers, don't you think?

 

On a related note, you may want to read this.

 

The 22nd century is when your story happens? Or even further in the future? Think how much change can happen between modern day and the setting of your story... Are countries still the countries we have in the present time? There is a trend towards countries joining in international organizations (European Union for Europe for example) so you could extend this from Brazil to Peru and cover the whole of the Amazon (the Amazon rainforest stretches to some other countries like Bolivia, Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia but most of it is in Peru and Brazil)... Rather than death the punishment could be exile (first time law brakers), life sentence (second time law brakers) and death (third time law brakers)...

 

Edit: if you want to sell this as a cartoon you need better pictures, and os far the storyline reminds me of Avatar...

Edited May 11, 2012 by anotherfilthyape

[TransformerRobot]

The 22nd century is when your story happens? Or even further in the future?

 

Around 2135 AD.

 

Think how much change can happen between modern day and the setting of your story... Are countries still the countries we have in the present time?

 

Yes they are, but there are a few political changes by then, such as bigger milestones for human rights in the third world, 80% less pollution, and 65% more jobs worldwide. Although North Korea is now a barren wasteland, but they're an acceptable target for mockery in fiction.

 

There is a trend towards countries joining in international organizations (European Union for Europe for example) so you could extend this from Brazil to Peru and cover the whole of the Amazon (the Amazon rainforest stretches to some other countries like Bolivia, Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia but most of it is in Peru and Brazil)... Rather than death the punishment could be exile (first time law brakers), life sentence (second time law brakers) and death (third time law brakers)...

 

Yeah, that seems less excessive.

 

Edit: if you want to sell this as a cartoon you need better pictures, and os far the storyline reminds me of Avatar...

 

That part is only the back story for the alien girl and her people.

 

The main story involves hoverbike racing, which ends up tangled in with a recent crime wave. Someone is stealing the racing prize money and replacing it with counterfeit currency.

[anotherfilthyape]

Around 2135 AD.

 

Oh ok, yeah that is not much distant future... your mutant girl could be from a tribe that has not been contacted by civilization

 

Yes they are, but there are a few political changes by then, such as bigger milestones for human rights in the third world, 80% less pollution, and 65% more jobs worldwide. Although North Korea is now a barren wasteland, but they're an acceptable target for mockery in fiction.

 

the three world division is very mistaken... Peru, Cambodia, Indonesia and The Gambia are considered third world but Peru has better application of human rights than the other three countries I mentioned... Originally third world meant "not aligned with capitalists or socialists in the cold war".... Now the term "developing nation" is prefered but the lie is still sold that every developing nation betrays human rights and just is not truth... not more than the USA where a 18 month girl was taken out of a plane because she was confused with a terrorist because she had arabic ancestry... or where torture is accepted in interrogation... So dont think that the third world needs "bigger milestones for human rights"... Investigate deeper that matter before passing judgement... The US has sold a lot of propaganda to claim that developing nations are slumholes... On the other hand, you have Polanski coming free from rape and other stories of human rights violations on the first world, specially in the US, that have not been punished... And the story of the US getting a man from Germany who was in New Zealand to jail because he broke property rights on the UK, that is a total violation of jurisdiction...

 

Yeah, that seems less excessive.

 

But you will have a hard time explaining how Brazil proceeds from the point it is in these days to a place where cutting trees receives such punishment... In Peru it would be more credible because Fujimori may return to power and he was a cleptocrat that feigned to be a president to be a dictator... On the other hand Colombia is also a good candidate because the FARC have not followed their promise to stop their war and, on the other hand, the Colombian government is a puppet government under US control... Venezuela and Ecuador are also possible candidates as Ecuador is a puppet to Venezuela and Venezuela is going through what Peru went through in the 90s...

 

 

That part is only the back story for the alien girl and her people.

 

Oh ok...

 

The main story involves hoverbike racing, which ends up tangled in with a recent crime wave. Someone is stealing the racing prize money and replacing it with counterfeit currency.

 

I see...

[TransformerRobot]

Okay, I won't get into the politics of the 22nd century so much.

 

What about my jungle girl? I could say she's from Mexico and part of a tribal renaissance movement, and that way she could still show her sex appeal without going completely nude.

 

Unfortunately I couldn't find an example, so I've attached one.

 

 

It's not a very good picture of her because I did it in only a few minutes.

 

Also, can she still be a deadly fighter without having superhuman strength or being a mutant?

[anotherfilthyape]

Okay, I won't get into the politics of the 22nd century so much.

 

What about my jungle girl? I could say she's from Mexico and part of a tribal renaissance movement, and that way she could still show her sex appeal without going completely nude.

 

Unfortunately I couldn't find an example, so I've attached one.

 

 

It's not a very good picture of her because I did it in only a few minutes.

 

Also, can she still be a deadly fighter without having superhuman strength or being a mutant?

 

I guess you want to avoid thinking too much of politics... But Mexico has the problem that it is currently burdened by narcoterrorism on its less populated areas and on its poorest populated areas... But I guess that could have been solved by the time your story takes place in.

 

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Rainforest Use these maps complemented with google earth to know where you get tropical rainforests (Mexico) and temperate rainforests (Canada)... Google earth even represents the land as forested when it is so...

 

http://en.wikipedia....File:Iflmap.png

 

She could be like Jo Lupo from Eureka ( http://tvtropes.org/.../WeakButSkilled although Jo is not really weak, but her strength must not be as well as her fighting skills becuase she is not deformed by her muscles; she is an expert in vehicles, weapon handling and martial arts, make a choice of martial arts for your character to master) or like Private Jenette Vasquez, one of the marines' "smart gun" operators (but please, do not follow the rule that Vasquez always dies http://tvtropes.org/...squezAlwaysDies just look how hot she is http://content6.flix...6772232_ori.jpg and I could believe her to be Mexican if her role were such and she could be a mechanic too)... She can even be part psychic and have telekinesis http://tvtropes.org/...n/WillfullyWeak which some sci-fi accepts... But I think psychic powers in sci-fi is too much like soft sci-fi... But making her athletic and skilled would justify her having greater power than she seems to have, she wont carry great loads but she would have style and acrobatic skills and do parkour and tumble about and give flying kicks and she would have some muscle but not much (like this: http://3.bp.blogspot...5++su+perro.jpg this woman is an athletic girl able to circumnavgiate the whole world at only 16 and she has no notorious muscles, on the other hand the world record for strongets girl can lift 300 kg and looks like this: http://www.varyaakul...mbs/dig7003.jpg in other pictures her face is not that ugly, but in that picture she is showing all her muscles and they are not that obvious)

 

I feared your noble savage concept could end making the white characters mighty whiteys but you've taken a turn against that http://tvtropes.org/...in/MightyWhitey

 

I have never heard of tribal reinassance but if you are inventing the concept it could be a good idea... And very original... Here is a concept that could explain the social phenomenon:

 

-The Native American Renaissance was a term originally coined by critic Kenneth Lincoln in his 1983 book of the same title. Lincoln's goal was to explore the explosion in production of literary works by Native Americans in the decade and a half after N. Scott Momaday had won the Pulitzer Prize in 1969 for House Made of Dawn. Before that time, few Native Americans had published fiction. Writers such as William Apess, Pauline Johnson, John Rollin Ridge and Simon Pokagon in the nineteenth century, and Mourning Dove, John Milton Oskison, John Joseph Mathews, Zitkala-Sa, Charles Eastman and D'Arcy McNickle in the years before WWII were known, but they were relatively few.-

 

Just like a boom of literature around the subject of goths created the modern goth cultures a boom of literature around tribes can cause an interest in simple living ( http://en.wikipedia....i/Simple_living ) and in reviving old tribal traditions, accuracy is innecesary and blending features of different tribes is possible (that is what wicca does and why I often blend mythologies, specially celtic and norse mythologies) and so are anachronisms (because its the future and common people never have good knowledge of how things really were, and even those that know have little knowledge beyond their own specialty)... http://tvtropes.org/...Main/Mayincatec is common (you can even have a genius character point a few of the mistake you want to point out before the character gets bored and accepts letting your character show flawed knowledge of the tribes the character is inspired in). Literature in Peru has often gone around catholic themes (magic realism or "realismo magico") or around the Andes (Indigenism), thinking that a similiar boom of literature from jungle folk from all the jungles from the Amazon to the north is also possible...

 

Just avoid falling into the Spexico bias... http://tvtropes.org/...hp/Main/Spexico

 

http://en.wikipedia....phics_of_Mexico

 

You may want to avoid stereotypes by recognizing that Mexico has European population (even blondes and red heads, but more blondes than red heads), http://en.wikipedia....i/Afro-Mexicans or Arab Mexicans (If you choose Afro-Mexicans to match your picture you dont need to give her the nose of such people of African heritage as Wanda Sykes but you can make her as beautiful as such afro-descendant women as Elizabeth Jongkind* or as these that are partially afro-descendant and partially native-american http://upload.wikime...al_002_4412.JPG) The reason there is this higher amount of beauty in Afrolatin-americans when compared against people with African heritage from the USA is because hybrid vigour is more common in the former Spanish empire due to the absence of laws preventing interracial breeding, the US was more racist than the former Spanish colonies and Canada had not much African population to begin with... I know the women I am giving you as examples are afrotaino women from Dominican Republic but there is common travel between the different countries that used to belong to Spain. Other women that could realistically pass as afroMexicans:

 

http://upload.wikime..._headshot_2.png

http://2.bp.blogspot...+MUNDO+2009.JPG

http://www.pueblovie...udia%20Cruz.jpg

http://en.wikipedia....7_Ada_Aimee.jpg

http://serial.alterv...es7/Denny01.jpg

http://www.latinartm...ls/DSCN0286.JPG

http://en.wikipedia....ell_Santana.jpg

http://upload.wikime..._Ed_Kavishe.jpg

Eight women with african ancestry and none of them has the ugly nose so common in women with African ancestry in the United States media... None has the stereotypically ugly nose of Wadna Sykes, all are african beauties... but I bet they also have amerindian and European ancestry because hybrid vigour is best. I took examples from Dominican Republic because thjey are the best amerindian mulattoes ever, they and Elizabeth Jongkind that is Surinamese...

 

*named Bettina in the porn movie I watched her for the first time; Private Black Label 5: Secrets of Kamasutra

 

As for other example of the demographics in Mexico (these are all taken from the list of mexican actresses in wikipedia, sometimes the wikipedia article had not photos and I found them on google, the list is much longer but I got bored and stopped checking guessing that you too would get bored of checking such a long list):

 

Note; They are beautiful mexicans, but they sink as actresses and as actors... The golden age of Mexican acting is in the past... The last 30 years or so Mexico has produced cheesy melodramas with terrible acting, with the exception of Chespirito that is a follower of Cantinflas and Pedro Infante...

 

 

http://chilangazo.wo...-otras-fotitos/

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ana_Alicia

http://imageshack.us...436788.jpg/sr=1

http://romancefm.com...ara_grosby1.jpg

http://album.enfemen...a-peregrin.html

http://elreporterode...agina=78= the one in the black bikini with red bourders and white dots

http://jimcueva.com/tag/marcela-bovio/

http://upload.wikime...ns/a/a4/A.B.jpg

http://www.esquirela...ne-bracamontes/

http://www.esmas.com...ias/466439.html

http://www2.esmas.co...ulce-despedida/

http://www.popchisme...n-juan-collado/

http://en.wikipedia....s_de_animas.png

http://en.wikipedia....inel_Conde1.jpg

http://www.lasnotici....com/n0067.html

http://www2.esmas.co...o-bruce-willis/

http://entretenimien...l-castillo.html

http://guasanericons...iana-dominguez/

http://teveche.blogs...aje-selena.html

 

Edit: You seem to draw feet and legs like human were macropods... I dont say it just because of this picture, but your other picture had the same flaw... I recommend you not to make that mistake if you want your pics to be taken seriously...

Edited May 12, 2012 by anotherfilthyape

[TransformerRobot]

Well I'm very happy to have gotten your input on the matter.

 

With that in mind, I've come up with this rough-draft of her character:

 

-An expert at karate.

-Fast runner.

-Wide hips and a big butt, don't let those fool you.

-Has a plain accent but fluent in Spanish.

-Never been to Spain.

-Can easily break someone's arm.

-Able to trip people who are bigger and stronger than she is.

-Works helping to protect the Mexican rainforest.

-Very good hoverbike racer and driver.

-Never needs somebody else's help in a fight.

-Very good at sports.

-Comes from a family of botanists and wildlife rangers.

-Her great great grandmother helped get rid of the smog in Mexico City.

 

If I've hit anything stereotypical about Mexicans there let me know. I'm not trying to be offensive.

 

Also, another idea I had was to make her descended from the Taino Indians (the tribe Columbus encountered when he first reached America).

 

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071230/arts/images/Layout1_1_PGIO2TAINO200AM.jpg

http://insidejourneystravel.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/dsc02938.jpg

http://www.gonomad.com/cultures/1102/cuba-images/ceremony.jpg

[Moontanman]

Um, didn't this start out as sex with aliens? None of these girls look extraterrestrial...