woo-free acupressure

[ydoaPs]

I recently tried a pressure point for one of my chronic headaches and it did reduce the intensity significantly. Is that just placebo effect, or is something actually going on?

 

I've not really been able to find any information about acupressure. Everything that I can find just lumps it in as a type of acupuncture and either praises it as ancient wisdom or dismisses it offhand via the genetic fallacy. I can't find any actual rational discussion of what, if anything, actually happens when these nerve clusters are massaged.

 

Does putting pressure on nerve clusters do anything? Google searches for acupressure throw out mostly neurological uses, which makes me think there might be something to it. Things like pain, nausea, etc. Could massaging nerve clusters induce release of neurotransmitters or something?

 

Papers are welcome if you can find them.

[CharonY]

It is quite possible, even likely that the placebo effect plays a role. The original theories behind it are clearly non-scientific (or at least have to my knowledge not put into a modern model with explanatory powers yet).

The problem with these uses (pain control, sleep, etc.) are highly affected by the placebo effect. A quick overview of the published papers with trials showed that the placebo effect was mostly not accounted for (e.g. Chen et al Int J Nurs Stud. 2012 Mar 3). In at least one case acupressure was only simulated by touching rather then massaging ( J Midwifery Womens Health. 2012 Mar;57(2):133-8). But if te placebo is due to general massaging (and associated prolonged contact), it would still be an insufficient control.

 

Finally a short study showed that acupressure, placebot-acupressure and relaxation CDs had similar effects for stress reduction: (McFadden et al. Complementary Therapies in Medicine Volume 20, Issue 4, August 2012, Pages 175–182).

 

As a general note, the complexity of pain, stress etc. makes it really difficult to distinguish "placebo" from "real" effects. If lying down relaxes you and thus reduces pain sensation, is that a placebo or successful intervention?

[ydoaPs]

It is quite possible, even likely that the placebo effect plays a role.

 

That's what I was thinking, but I thought I remembered reading somewhere than many of the points are actually nerve clusters. That's why I thought there might be something to it.

 

The original theories behind it are clearly non-scientific (or at least have to my knowledge not put into a modern model with explanatory powers yet).

 

Which is unfortunately why the "skeptics" fall into the genetic fallacy so easily. "Qi? BWAHAHAHAHA"

 

I'm not saying that there aren't actual skeptics out there asking the right questions. I'm just saying that is a trap that many people who claim to be skeptics fall into and dismiss it out of hand. Unfortunately, these people and the shameless promoters flood google and it's hard to find actual skeptics on the subject.

 

As a general note, the complexity of pain, stress etc. makes it really difficult to distinguish "placebo" from "real" effects. If lying down relaxes you and thus reduces pain sensation, is that a placebo or successful intervention?

 

Thanks for replying. Are there a lot of studies on this?

[CharonY]

Not that many good ones, unfortunately. At least to my limited knowledge. I dabble into these matters every now and then as I found it quite interesting, but have not found any definite studies. Also much less that delves into the fundamentals of stress or pain perception. Or rather there is a lot, but there is a knowledge gap between mechanisms (also on the neuronal level) to the perception part, on which placebo (or whatever) could work.

It is another typical case of insufficient biological knowledge to allow definite answers.

[Ringer]

The nerve cluster thing is one of those things that is so vague as to be meaningless in this context. Touching any sort of sensory nerve is going to cause a reaction in the nervous system, but it doesn't mean the effect felt it due to that reaction. As an example if I massage the nerve clusters in my eye I won't be able to see better or my headache being less intense, I use to do this when I would have migraines, is because nerves in my helped my headache. Not to say it doesn't work, but the extremely vague wording annoys me. Makes it too difficult to actually look anything up.

[John Cuthber]

As far as I understand it the current evidence is that acupuncture doesn't work.

If sticking pointy things into the "nerve clusters" doesn't work then its hard to see how prodding them a bit would do a better job.

 

The good news is that the placebo effect still works just fine, even when you know that's what's doing the job.

[CharonY]

That is precisely the point. The hypothesis that certain areas have to be stimulated in a very specific way is most likely false (or at least there is no support for it). However, the big question is what placebo really is. It is an effect, as it has physiological consequences. More likely placebo may actually be a variety of mechanisms, and lumping them in a common catch phrase may actually make it harder to precisely define it.

[imatfaal]

Even the placebo effect is not as strong as some might claim - especially in areas other than pain management.

 

 

 

Placebo interventions are often claimed to substantially improve many clinical conditions. However, most reports on effects of placebos are based on unreliable studies that have not randomised patients to placebo or no treatment. We studied the effect of placebo treatments by reviewing 202 trials comparing placebo treatment with no treatment covering 60 healthcare problems. In general, placebo treatments produced no major health benefits, although on average they had a modest effect on outcomes reported by patients, such as pain. However, the effect on pain varied from large to non-existent, even in well-conducted trials. Variations in the effect of placebo was partly explained by variations in how trials were conducted, the type of placebo used, and whether patients were informed that the trial involved placebo.

 

Placebo interventions for all clinical conditions - Cochrane Review

 

 

 

 

Abstract

[Joatmon]

My wife used to get travel sick on coaches. She bought some special armbands from a well known chemist. She is never sick when she wears them.

On the other hand one of my grandchildren, when a child, used to get car sick. He was cured by sitting him on a "magic towel" which we told him would stop the sickness.

I have always thought it wisest to refrain from expressing my thoughts to either party in case I stop them working!

[Ringer]

Relevant:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120517132055.htm

[Prometheus]

As i understand it there are two theories bandied around as top why acupuncture works (both, of course, assume it works).

 

One, it works on the gate-control theory of pain (the generally accepted theory of pain in medicine). By this theory acupuncture should work about as well as rubbing an injury (which does work).

Two, acupuncture somehow releases endorphins and enkephalins, natural opiates.

 

I've not looked into either, but can try to dig out some articles if you like. But as i understand it, most studies suggest it doesn't work beyond placebo (is there a cochrane review?).