I've accidently invented a gravity engine

[120ThingsIn20Years]

I was testing a method I've been working on for problem solving and was trying to test for "must fail" conditions. This is a bit tricky, because proving impossible always is.

 

Unless of course it violates something like the conservation of energies.

 

As a result I thought I'd run something stupid through the process I call "the invention engine" to test some new work I'd been doing to prove fail conditions.

 

I ran an obvious must-fail choice - "Over unity generator"

 

But I got this, my fraudulent over unity generator and have no Idea why it cant work.

 

It's driving me nuts, because I feel I generally have a reasonable understanding of this kind of thing.

 

Can anyone who knows this stuff, and is feeling generous, have a look and tell me where it falls over.

 

I cant have an over unity machine sitting on my blog without knowing why it doesnt work. Especially when I invented it

 

 

 

If I cant figure it out, I'll have to sell it to some U-fo space aliens or whoever it is that keeps buying the plans for all those cars that run on water

Edited May 16, 2012 by 120ThingsIn20Years

[Tres Juicy]

Have you correctly understood how liquids and gasses behave under these conditions?

 

I suspect that tripling the height of the hill will result in more changes to the system than you have accounted for...

[120ThingsIn20Years]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I was under the impression that gases liked being spread out pretty much evenly within their container. Obviously, there would be some pressure difference between the top and the bottom of the tube taking the gas back to the top, but I would expect it to reflect the kind of difference you might see outside the tube. The fact that they are released under pressure feels like they should at least partly help themselves back to the top.

 

I think thats why, even though compressors tend to be inefficient, refrigeration (via heat pump), is quite efficient. The the refrigerant only needs a slight difference in pressure or temperature to change from liquid to gas and back.

 

I think.

 

There's also extra friction in the length of the gas pipe, but there's nothing to say the tube cant be a mile in diameter and filled with almost liquid gas. thus not a lot of friction, and the thing is already full.

 

I wish I paid more attention to all those people trying to teach me stuff over the years.

[Janus]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I was under the impression that gases liked being spread out pretty much evenly within their container. Obviously, there would be some pressure difference between the top and the bottom of the tube taking the gas back to the top, but I would expect it to reflect the kind of difference you might see outside the tube. The fact that they are released under pressure feels like they should at least partly help themselves back to the top.

 

Here's the problem: A gas compressed to the point where it is just about to turn liquid will be as dense as the liquid. For example, liquid nitrogen has a density 80% of that of water. Gaseous Nitrogen compressed to the point of almost being liquid would also have a density 8% of that of water. This means that a column of nitrogen compressed to this degree would only have to be 12.5 meters high to weight the same as a column of equivalent cross-section consisting of air, at a uniform pressure of 1 atm, with a height of 8.5 kilometers. Put another way, the pressure differential between the top and bottom of your pipe will be much greater than that in the atmospheric pressure outside the pipe. You'd ened up with an "almost liquid" liquid gas at the bottom and a not so much so gas at the top.

 

I think thats why, even though compressors tend to be inefficient, refrigeration (via heat pump), is quite efficient. The the refrigerant only needs a slight difference in pressure or temperature to change from liquid to gas and back.

 

I think.

 

There's also extra friction in the length of the gas pipe, but there's nothing to say the tube cant be a mile in diameter and filled with almost liquid gas. thus not a lot of friction, and the thing is already full.

 

I wish I paid more attention to all those people trying to teach me stuff over the years.

 

A couple of quick mentions of other problems I see

 

You don't seem to be taking into account The latent heat in going from liguid to gas and back. Compressing the gas is not enough (mere compression just creates a Hot high pressure vapor), you also have to let the latent heat escape. At the other end, it will take an input of energy to get the liquid to change to gas.

 

Also, how do you empty the tanks? As a liquid, they are in just a bit smaller volume than they would be as a high pressure gas. this means that the volume of the pipe can only be equal to the difference between the liquid and gas volume. Remember, when you open the valve between the two the resulting gas fills both the pipe and tank. This means that the vast majority of the gas remains in the tank, and only a small percentage bleeds into the line.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Janus

[120ThingsIn20Years]

Thanks people.

 

I new I could rely on this place .

 

I know nothing of gas and fluids other than that which I discovered for myself playing in the bath.

 

If anyone else has anything more to add please let me know.

 

I want all the holes picked and re-picked.

 

Even if it's just +1's, I'd really appreciate all of it.

 

It's been a funny feeling not knowing why it shouldn't work even though I knew it couldn't.

[doG]

...."Over unity generator"....

 

 

...I think thats why, even though compressors tend to be inefficient, refrigeration (via heat pump), is quite efficient. The the refrigerant only needs a slight difference in pressure or temperature to change from liquid to gas and back. I think.There's also extra friction in the length of the gas pipe, but there's nothing to say the tube cant be a mile in diameter and filled with almost liquid gas. thus not a lot of friction, and the thing is already full....

Over unity requires the system as a whole to be more than 100% efficient. Any inefficiencies, any friction will cause the system to require more energy than it can produce and over unity cannot be achieved. It's really as simple as that.