morgsboi Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 The question of how the universe came into existence is a mystery. I was thinking that the answer to that is simply: 0/0. If we look at this mathematically then it kind of makes sense. Let "0" represent the universe before it came into existence. x=0 x/0 = infinity x/x = 1 nx/x = n Could nothingness be impossible and if so could the universe have been created 14 billion years ago or could it have just been there forever? What if there had always been a universe and all matter was compressed into a singularity which at one moment in time made a big bang? What do you think?
ACG52 Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 x/0 = infinity No. Any quantity divided by 0 is undefined. That includes dividing 0 by 0.
studiot Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) No. Any quantity divided by 0 is undefined. That includes dividing 0 by 0. Both [math]\frac{0}{0}[/math] and [math]\frac{\infty }{\infty }[/math] can sometimes be evaulated. Some techniques are included in elementary calculus and even pre-calculus. This does not mean I endorse the original post. Edited May 20, 2012 by studiot
morgsboi Posted May 20, 2012 Author Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Yes it is according to my simple calculation. infinity/ 1 = infinitesimal or 0.000recurring 1 So the inverse of that is infinity Proof of infinitesimals being rounded can be proved by this. x = 0.999recurring 10x = 9.999recurring 10x - x = 9x 9x = 9 9x/ 9 = 1 x = 1 It's something I have worked out myself but it has been confirmed. Apparently it was actually some of the early work of Sir Issac Newton! Source: http://www.sciencefo...036#entry679036 Edited May 20, 2012 by morgsboi
juanrga Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 Proof of infinitesimals being rounded can be proved by this. x = 0.999recurring 10x = 9.999recurring 10x - x = 9x 9x = 9 9x/ 9 = 1 x = 1 It's something I have worked out myself but it has been confirmed. Apparently it was actually some of the early work of Sir Issac Newton! This is a well-known result, which involves no use of infinitesimals, but ordinary algebra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...#Digit_manipulation
Joatmon Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Many, many years ago it was explained to me that 0/0 is indeterminate. It's value depends on the equation which when simplified gave you 0/0. This was in my introduction to calculus - enough of which I retained to pass an exam and then forgot! I personally would like you to make 0/0=42 as that is the ultimate answer to Life, The Universe and Everything. http://en.wikipedia....iki/42_(number) Edited May 20, 2012 by Joatmon
studiot Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 I wonder if questions of this type arise frequently because of the scant treatment paid to infinite sequences, series and products these days in early maths and also if this is why questioners shy away when it is pointed out that the ratios 0/0 and infinity /infinity can result in a definite value.
mathematic Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 0/0 etc. are questions that belong in mathematics. They have nothing to do with the physics of the universe.
mississippichem Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 0/0 etc. are questions that belong in mathematics. They have nothing to do with the physics of the universe. Indeed. I'll go a step further and move this to speculations.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Indeed. I'll go a step further and move this to speculations. Read through it again. The question is not in the mathematics itself, but the relation to the universe. What did you think it was? Random symbols?
John Cuthber Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 What did you think it was? Random symbols? Well, I can't answer for Mississippichem, but I think it's random symbols.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Well, I can't answer for Mississippichem, but I think it's random symbols. Congratulations...... you're wrong on infinite levels!! Sorry, I forgot your medal.
John Cuthber Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Congratulations...... you're wrong on infinite levels!! Sorry, I forgot your medal. Whereas you are only wrong on one level. The fact that division by zero is not defined and so your "explanation" of the universe has no meaning.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Whereas you are only wrong on one level. The fact that division by zero is not defined and so your "explanation" of the universe has no meaning. Why isn't it defined? 0/0 can be anything and everything as my math proves. If you like, prove me wrong but use a quote on the way and explain yourself too.
Daedalus Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Well... considering the following: [math]\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{0}{x} = 0[/math], Suggests that 0/0 does not represent a universe where everything came from nothing.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Well... considering the following: [math]\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{0}{x} = 0[/math], Suggests that 0/0 does not represent a universe where everything came from nothing. What if: [math]\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{0}{x} = Anything[/math]
Daedalus Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 What if: [math]\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{0}{x} = Anything[/math] Well the point is that it does not equal anything because the limit equals zero.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Well the point is that it does not equal anything because the limit equals zero. Apologies, forgot to change the limit, haha!
Daedalus Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 This is why division by zero is undefined: Given that [math]z=\frac{y}{x}[/math] assigns to each point ([math]x[/math], [math]y[/math]) a real number [math]z[/math]. Then the limit[math], \ \lim_{(x, y) \to (a, b)} \frac{y}{x} \ ,[/math] can only exist if all paths in the domain, [math]\{(x,\, y) \in \mathbb{R}^2\}[/math], approach the same value. If we choose multiple lines (paths in the domain) of the form [math]y=m\, x[/math], then as [math]x[/math] approaches zero [math]y[/math] also approaches zero such that: [math]\lim_{(x, y) \to (0, 0)} \frac{y}{x} \ =\ \lim_{x \to 0} \frac{m\, x}{x} = m[/math] Notice how the value of the limit depends on the direction at which you approach zero - different values of [math]m[/math]. Since we get different values for the limit as [math]x[/math] and [math]y[/math] approach zero, the limit does not exist. Hence the reason why division by zero is undefined.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 This is why division by zero is undefined: Given that [math]z=\frac{y}{x}[/math] assigns to each point ([math]x[/math], [math]y[/math]) a real number [math]z[/math]. Then the limit[math], \ \lim_{(x, y) \to (a, b)} \frac{y}{x} \ ,[/math] can only exist if all paths in the domain, [math]\{(x,\, y) \in \mathbb{R}^2\}[/math], approach the same value. If we choose multiple lines (paths in the domain) of the form [math]y=m\, x[/math], then as [math]x[/math] approaches zero [math]y[/math] also approaches zero such that: [math]\lim_{(x, y) \to (0, 0)} \frac{y}{x} \ =\ \lim_{x \to 0} \frac{m\, x}{x} = m[/math] Notice how the value of the limit depends on the direction at which you approach zero - different values of [math]m[/math]. Since we get different values for the limit as [math]x[/math] and [math]y[/math] approach zero, the limit does not exist. Hence the reason why division by zero is undefined. Sorry, that's getting a bit much for me. I'm only 15, haha! But I understand some of it.
Daedalus Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Sorry, that's getting a bit much for me. I'm only 15, haha! But I understand some of it. That's perfectly fine. If you are really interested in mathematics, then I would suggest that you ask your math teachers as many questions as possible. In addition, it wouldn't hurt to try and get into some AP (advanced placement) math classes if your school has them. That way you can earn college credit if you score high on the AP test. As you progress in your studies of mathematics, you will begin to understand the type of math, multivariate calculus, that I used to demonstrate why division by zero is undefined.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 That's perfectly fine. If you are really interested in mathematics, then I would suggest that you ask your math teachers as many questions as possible. In addition, it wouldn't hurt to try and get into some AP (advanced placement) math classes if your school has them. That way you can earn college credit if you score high on the AP test. As you progress in your studies of mathematics, you will begin to understand the type of math, multivariate calculus, that I used to demonstrate why division by zero is undefined. My school isn't the best for people of my ability. I do, however, like to question things.
Joatmon Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 #7 refers. If you calculate (8-x^3)/(2-x) when x=2 you get 0/0. However I want to watch a TV prog now so I'll just say I make this example of 0/0 equal to 12. If anyone doubts this then I'll come back later.
morgsboi Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) #7 refers. If you calculate (8-x^3)/(2-x) when x=2 you get 0/0. However I want to watch a TV prog now so I'll just say I make this example of 0/0 equal to 12. If anyone doubts this then I'll come back later. Okay, but why does it equal 12? [math] (12*x)/x [/math] ? Edited May 21, 2012 by morgsboi
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