Logos

[Athena]

Small nitpick here. The U.S. is a constitution-based federal republic with a strong democratic tradition, not actually a democracy.

 

The US is a democracy because it gives political power to the people, however, the form of government is republic. The forum of government is a balance of powers. However, I think that balance of power has been thrown off balance. Should we discuss how this relates to logos and morals? Our best protection is everyone understanding these things, because our military can not protect us from the problems we cause ourselves.

 

Do you realize that you are effectively asserting the majority of the people are reasonable? That the 51% of a given population, the rulers, are the reasonable subset of the total population? Is this really not obvious to you?

 

Everyone what would happen if I joined one of the science forums where I know nothing about the science being discussed, and made absolutely no effort to understand the subject being discussed, and did nothing but berate everyone who did understand the subject?

 

I am asserting all human beings, not suffering from mental retardation, are capable of reason. Please, make some effort to understand the subject. All of this comes out of Greek philosophy, and the idea we are made in the image of the gods, because we have the capacity for reason. That is what makes rule by reason possible. That is, we resolve our differences with reasoning, rather by fighting like animals.

 

For thousands of years we denied women and slaves were capable of reason. That has changed. We hold everyone is capable of reason, the whole 100% of us. However, we have not done well in understanding the importance of education to our ability to reason. This discussion requires knowledge of Greek philosophy, or at least a willingness to learn of it.

 

We expect in an ideal environment that a democratic system should be ruled by reason but this is not how the things are in the practical real world scenarios, we expect the people who we have elected to represent us to make reasonable arguments and come to a choice.

 

Let's take an example of a particular scenario where the ruling party requires another two votes to pass a particular bill about a very important issue:

 

1. Now if two persons from the opposition vote against the decision of their own party realizing that such a bill is necessary and is important that it should be passed on then they are the ideal people we normally want to see in a democracy since their choices were based on reason and on high moral grounds and they could've even decided to vote in favor of their own party and made sure that bill is not passed if it had many defects in it.

 

2. Now if the ruling party gives some bribe to those two persons in the opposition party and make them vote in their favor then by default they are going to vote against their own party with out even reading or understanding the bad and good outcomes and short comings of the bill.

 

In the latter scenario what mattered was, those two important votes to pass the bill not anyone's reasoning, this is how the things are in the real practical world. Majority wins.

 

I think you are making really good points.

 

How well do these representatives understand logos, The Law and morals? I don't think they have any more understanding of these things the doG. We should NOT limit ourselves to thinking of ourselves. Our national politics, must be globally conscious.

 

I am hoping, more people accept this reasoning and join me. A problem with the God of Abraham, is this humanized God has favorites, and not a very good understanding of science and our world. To understand Logos, The Law, is to not have favorites. Invading Iraq is not doing the will of God! Doing the will of God is paying attention to the realities of a finite planet, and caring for all life on this planet. The US capitalist violate moral law, when they enter a foreign country and exploit its wealth, ignoring the people who live there. The best way to resolve such problems is getting rid of this false God that has favorites and maintains morality at a very low level, bible morals may be fit for ignorant people, but certainly this not our moral potential.

 

At the same time we get rid of the false God, we must expand our conscious of logos, The Law and morals. That is the organizing force of the universe and ourselves. This mentality begins with Greek philosophy, and it is the foundation of our democracy. Unlike all the other animals, we can become of aware of this stuff and we can govern ourselves with this knowledge.

 

Sorry Athena but doG is completely correct democracy is not rule of reason or justice, it is rule of the many. Any form of government requires us to be thinking creatures - not necessarily nice thinking creatures if you are talking about authoritarianism - but still zoon politikon. It is you who is failing to grasp the obvious flaw in your argument - your premise that democracy is the rule of reason is bust!

 

You could make a fair argument for us being ruled by our emotions and our lust, governed by fear and despair, and driven into decisions by animal instinct.

 

Honey, doG is completely ignorant of Greek philosophy and knows nothing about the reasoning behind democracy. How does authoritarianism require well educated people? Modern societies require trained technicians, but it is possible to have trained technicians by using the Behaviorist Method for education, and the Behaviorist Method is also used for training dogs. However, this is not a good education for a democracy, because in a democracy people need to understand increasingly complex concepts. Liberal education prepares people for democracy, by using the Conceptual Method to teach increasingly complex concepts.

 

In the modern society is it not the people who govern themselves, but policy set by policy makers who are dismissed when the policy is written, leaving no one to alter the policy. Under this Prussian bureaucratic model, it takes an act of congress to change the policy that runs our lives, and the people who are trained technicians only need to obey. Oh dear, this is getting more political than I intended, but we are moving from democracy to authoritarianism.

 

Democracy is rule by reason, but that is not what have today, because only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended. and we obviously have not done that.

 

Maybe I shouldn't do this, but I am having fun playing with ideas at the moment. We are the beast of the bible. We are a mass of humanity driven by our stomachs, and our lust, not reason. One big, brainless beast, capable of destroying all life on earth, and as we expand our power around the world, it is a lie that we are spreading democracy.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Athena

[immortal]

but certainly this not our moral potential.

 

Unlike all the other animals, we can become of aware of this stuff and we can govern ourselves with this knowledge.

 

 

Yes, that's really something which we should ask ourselves, what is our potential, are we divine or are we just an intelligent mammal with a highly developed culture as espoused by evolutionary psychology, there is nothing wrong with questioning these things and this is why we have philosophy.