Worm holes

[TransformerRobot]

I've never seen a worm hole, and I can't think of anyone who has, but there are still a few theories about worm holes.

 

You guys told me that worm holes are more theoretical, but does that make black holes theoretical as well? Maybe worm holes are a type of black hole.

 

Then there's the idea that worm holes are randomly everywhere in the universe. Could they really do that? If so, how could anybody find them before they close?

 

And if worm holes close, how long do they stay open before then?

 

If there are worm holes, maybe they could be utilized as an aid in transportation in space.

[JohnStu]

My view on wormholes is that wormholes do not exist in reality. It is out of inflated confidance that led to belief or such things, just like how 16th century scientists thought only Earth has moons.

[Marqq]

I can't answer how physicists would really say wormholes work, but I can give a speculative answer that I believe would fit your needs (IIRC you're a fiction writer):

 

Wormholes could function in a reality where there is a background æther that forms the fabric upon which reality is a waveform. If this æther is essentially the space between all things material, it bends and warps all the time, but no notice is taken because waveform particles travel at a speed relative to the amount of æther through which it must travel. I think this is the idea upon which 'slipstream' concepts are based. Anyway, if an area is extremely thin with æther, movement across that area is much faster than if it were thick with it (I'm avoiding the term 'density' because that implies the æther is formed of particles...that's speculation for you to do). Now, if the shape of a tunnel were to become extremely thin with æther, particles could pass very quickly from one end to another, or for that matter, across the length of it. Another assumption required for this is that the thickness (tough to avoid that d-word) changes on a smooth gradient at the edges and the ends of the 'wormhole.' I can't say for sure what could cause the formation, movement, or dissolution of a wormhole, since material things are made up of the æther, and thus can't do much to affect it outside of rearranging themselves. Maybe it could be some kind of emergent waveform that's just much bigger than other particles, idk....anyway, there's an idea for you. Hope it helps.

[TransformerRobot]

What if wormholes are formed from a temporary increase in gravity in a small part of space, similar to how black holes are formed? I've seen some works depict wormholes as being much safer than black holes, but still dangerous for those who cross through them.

 

An idea I've had since recently is that a handful of alien races in my show have mastered technology that creates wormholes, manipulating them so that they open up at desired destinations. However, it took the technology's creators 500 years to develop, and in the show's present timeline they're older than humans by nearly a millennial or more. The average lifespan of said species is almost 1000 years.

[Marqq]

If that's the direction you want to go, you've actually given me an idea. I'm not sure how an increase in gravity in an area could form a wormhole there, because gravity compresses, and wormholes necessarily stretch an object over a great distance. In keeping with the æther idea, though, I see a way: Æther moving toward matter is the cause for gravity (HUGE speculation), and so æther is thick around gravitational foci. Conversely, as the æther is pulled through space by high gravity foci, certain areas become thinner, forming the opposite of black holes: wormholes. These would likely be very short-lived while maintaining a smooth, if extreme, gradient of æther thickness throughout. If a way could be devised to pull æther (say, at the sides of a ship or 'jump' facilitating device), a vessel could be made to stretch its way through space using a maintained moving wormhole-like construct.

 

This is so gonna get moved to speculations... but that's really where it belongs.

[TransformerRobot]

Why do you keep mentioning this "aether", whatever it is? I only know of the mythological aether, the classical element, and the aether of alchemy, and alchemy from what I've been told is fraudulence.

[Marqq]

Aether Theories

 

I'm using that because it was a serious theory for a while, and it actually supports the possibility of wormholes. I know you're writing fiction, so you've got enough creative license to chose which theory holds true in your fictional world. Apparently, though, aether theory has been disproven, but again, that shouldn't really matter for you.

[TransformerRobot]

Aether Theories

 

I'm using that because it was a serious theory for a while, and it actually supports the possibility of wormholes. I know you're writing fiction, so you've got enough creative license to chose which theory holds true in your fictional world. Apparently, though, aether theory has been disproven, but again, that shouldn't really matter for you.

 

Thanks, but I think it would be better if I used the most up to date theories on wormholes as reference. I don't want people to think I'm a writer who sucks at science.

[MigL]

I don't know, from your posts it seems that you are and you do ...

 

But seriously, no-one will mistake you for Robert L. Foreward, the author of Dragon's Egg.

Instead of getting your information from TV shows like Star Trek: DS9 go to your nearest library and check-out a book by Kip Thorne called Black Holes and Space Warps; Einstein's Outrageous Legacy. It is a very understandable popularization and has a section on wormholes and their uses as modes of transport through space and time, along with the required exotic material ( negative energy material harvested on the edge of a black hole's event horizon ) needed to keep them open for an appreciable length of time.

[ACG52]

A minor correction. The name of the book by Kip Thorne is Black Holes and Time Warps; Einstein's Outrageous Legacy.

[TransformerRobot]

A minor correction. The name of the book by Kip Thorne is Black Holes and Time Warps; Einstein's Outrageous Legacy.

 

Let me guess, it mocks Einstein's theories and calls him an idiot. The title certainly implies that sort of cynicism.

[ACG52]

Let me guess, it mocks Einstein's theories and calls him an idiot. The title certainly implies that sort of cynicism.

 

Completely wrong.

[TransformerRobot]

Completely wrong.

 

Well if you had a sample from the book I'd like to see that before looking for the book at my local library.

[ACG52]

Well if you had a sample from the book I'd like to see that before looking for the book at my local library.

 

 

The book is not available online. Google the title and see what you get.

[MigL]

Kip Thorne was a student of J A Wheeler, and along with Wheeler and Misner co-authored the definitive book on gravity and GR called Gravitation. He is one of the leading experts on black holes ( in my mind ) along with Hawking and Penrose. He did some work on time travel but was afraid of not being taken seriously so he coyned the term Closed Timelike Loops. I would imagine he has the greatest respect for Einstein and his ideas, which are accurately explained in this book.

 

I have the book, both paper and e-book and I could have sworn its 'space warps' not 'time warps', ACG52, but I've been wrong before and I'm sure I will be again.

Edited May 30, 2012 by MigL

[TransformerRobot]

Kip Thorne was a student of J A Wheeler, and along with Wheeler and Misner co-authored the definitive book on gravity and GR called Gravitation. He is one of the leading experts on black holes ( in my mind ) along with Hawking and Penrose. He did some work on time travel but was afraid of not being taken seriously so he coyned the term Closed Timelike Loops. I would imagine he has the greatest respect for Einstein and his ideas, which are accurately explained in this book.

 

I have the book, both paper and e-book and I could have sworn its 'space warps' not 'time warps', ACG52, but I've been wrong before and I'm sure I will be again.

 

Yeah, space warps is a better term for taking a shortcut across space as opposed to traveling through time.

[ACG52]

It definitely 'Time Warps'.

 

 

Thorne has a chapter on the use of a wormhole and a spaceship at relativistic speeds as a time machine. I'd be more specific but I loaned my copy to my son, so I'm unlikely to see it anytime soon.

[MigL]

Basically the time machine aspect involves using two wormhole generators. I have one in my spaceship and Kip has one in his house. We use them to open a wormhole between our two locations so we can see and talk to each other through the wormhole.

I then take off at relativistic speeds to another solar system, get there, look around and come back to earth, all the while talking to Kip.

When I land on earth I realise 1000 yrs have elapsed since I began my journey ( special relativity effects and all that ), But I'm still talking to Kip, now 1000 yrs in the past. "No problem" he says " Just step through the wormhole".

So I do, and am now 1000 yrs in the past. Voila' a time machine.

 

I told you I'd be wrong again ACG52 ( about the book ), but at least I still have mine.

[TransformerRobot]

So you're saying it would take exactly 1,000 years to develop such a technology to create wormholes for communication across space, or across time?

[ACG52]

So you're saying it would take exactly 1,000 years to develop such a technology to create wormholes for communication across space, or across time?

 

 

I'm not sure how you manage to get that from MigL's description of Kip Thorne's 'time machine'.

 

The point was, that given a wormhole with one end stationary and the other end in a spaceship moving at relativistic speed experiencing time dilation, you can set up a closed timelike loop.

[TransformerRobot]

I'm not sure how you manage to get that from MigL's description of Kip Thorne's 'time machine'.

 

The point was, that given a wormhole with one end stationary and the other end in a spaceship moving at relativistic speed experiencing time dilation, you can set up a closed timelike loop.

 

Where is your evidence of this statement? Did you get this from Thorne's book?

[ACG52]

Where is your evidence of this statement? Did you get this from Thorne's book?

 

 

Do you have reading comprehension problems? It was clearly stated that this was an example from Thorne's book.

[TransformerRobot]

Do you have reading comprehension problems? It was clearly stated that this was an example from Thorne's book.

 

Sorry about that, I tend to miss certain things in what I read.

[Nigel]

It definitely 'Time Warps'.

 

 

Thorne has a chapter on the use of a wormhole and a spaceship at relativistic speeds as a time machine. I'd be more specific but I loaned my copy to my son, so I'm unlikely to see it anytime soon.

 

I think that Thorne's book came out in 1994. I've seen a more recent (2010) book by another student of JA Wheeler that focuses on wormholes: The Physics of Stargates -- Parallel Universes, Time Travel and the Enigma of Wormhole Physics by Enrico Rodrigo.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Nigel