Suicide

[Mr Rayon]

hey guys,

 

okay easy question here.

 

why is it that the most developed countries of the world which have the highest suicide rates?

 

is it because of the absence of religion or other political reason?

 

also, would you (whoever is reading this) consider committing suicide?

 

do you believe in suicide?

 

I have heard also that the smarter (i.e. higher IQ) you are the more likely you are of committing suicide. Is there any truth behind this?

[CharonY]

It depends on what you mean with most developed. But according to Wiki the highest suicide rates are in: Lithuania, South Korea, Guyana, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Hungary, Japan, Latvia, China and Slovenia. And I do not think that any of the parameters listed correlates well with the data.

Chances are that cultural norms are going to play a role, but also the simple act of correctly reporting and counting suicides...

[Appolinaria]

In some countries I'm sure you die before you can attempt suicide anyway. And in many more I'm sure no one notices you're gone.

 

The world is a scary place. I went to bed last night with the image of a baby cub being eaten by a lion and had my morning coffee to pictures of dead children in Syria. If you ask me, people who haven't contemplated suicide are robots and/or psychopaths.

 

I absolutely believe people should be able to commit suicide. I think assisted suicide should be available to everyone.

[Joatmon]

In a long life there have been one or two times I wished I were dead - perhaps even considered suicide. I lived on to be very glad that those dark moments passed because my life turned out to be all I could have hoped for.

So, at the very least, if considering suicide give yourself a lot of time to think it over. Especially so if you are young and healthy. Dark moments pass and when they have passed the brighter moments return!

[Externet]

Unsure if suicide is from very cowards or very braves. Suicide does put an end to all your troubles. Just make sure no trouble is passed to any members of family or others after.

 

Agree, assisted suicide should be available to who cannot do it themselves, as cannot see a sure way to commit suicide in the event of being terminally ill, being a burden to others, and being disabled enough to commit it.

[StringJunky]

In a long life there have been one or two times I wished I were dead - perhaps even considered suicide. I lived on to be very glad that those dark moments passed because my life turned out to be all I could have hoped for.

So, at the very least, if considering suicide give yourself a lot of time to think it over. Especially so if you are young and healthy. Dark moments pass and when they have passed the brighter moments return!

 

Unless one has an impossibly difficult circumstance I would tend to concur with you...life is often punctuated with journeys through long dark tunnels with no apparent light at the end of them, but light there is if one sits tight long enough.

[CaptainPanic]

Unless one has an impossibly difficult circumstance I would tend to concur with you...life is often punctuated with journeys through long dark tunnels with no apparent light at the end of them, but light there is if one sits tight long enough.

There are very few "impossibly difficult circumstances".

 

People might just not explore all options, for some reason. That reason can be a lack of imagination, ambition or creativity. Or they do explore all options, but do not believe they are possible, because or some feeling of pessimism or fatalism.

[Phi for All]

I absolutely believe people should be able to commit suicide. I think assisted suicide should be available to everyone.

I think if something like this was made available, a waiting period of five years should be mandatory (barring some kind of condition that might kill you before that). Have you ever looked back at some of the things you were doing five years ago and thought, "Wow, that was really stupid"? I think if you had five years to reflect on your impending assisted suicide, you'd either find a reason to live or you'd know for sure it was the consummation you've been devoutly wishing for.

[imatfaal]

In case anyone comes upon this thread in a depressed state of mind can I post a few links in case you need to talk (UK numbers)

 

 

</h4>

<h4>Samaritans

Samaritans (08457 90 90 90) operates a 24-hour service that is available every day of the year.

 

If you prefer to write down how you are feeling, or if you are worried about being overheard on the phone, you can email Samaritans at jo@samaritans.org.

 

 

Childline

Childline (0800 1111) runs a free helpline for children and young people in the UK. Calls are free and the number will not show up on your phone bill.

 

 

 

[Appolinaria]

I think if something like this was made available, a waiting period of five years should be mandatory (barring some kind of condition that might kill you before that). Have you ever looked back at some of the things you were doing five years ago and thought, "Wow, that was really stupid"? I think if you had five years to reflect on your impending assisted suicide, you'd either find a reason to live or you'd know for sure it was the consummation you've been devoutly wishing for.

 

Yeah, that's a good idea. Signing contracts over a period of time.

[Phi for All]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Signing contracts over a period of time.

I see it more like the waiting period for buying firearms.

[Mr Rayon]

Also, of particular relevance doctors have one of the highest suicide rates in the world by profession.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2986807.htm

Gotta watch out for the signs!

[Greg H.]

In some countries I'm sure you die before you can attempt suicide anyway. And in many more I'm sure no one notices you're gone.

 

The world is a scary place. I went to bed last night with the image of a baby cub being eaten by a lion and had my morning coffee to pictures of dead children in Syria. If you ask me, people who haven't contemplated suicide are robots and/or psychopaths.

 

I absolutely believe people should be able to commit suicide. I think assisted suicide should be available to everyone.

 

Have you ever read David Hume's essay "Of Suicide"¹? He considered the right to choose to end your own life to be as unalienable as any of the other civil rights we have come to know and enjoy (at least in the US). One of the footnotes in my copy of the essay mentions this:

 

The power of committing suicide is regarded by Pliny as an advantage which men possess even above the Deity himself:

God cannot even if he wishes to commit suicide, the supreme boon that he has bestowed among all of the penalties of life.

It doesn't mention if this was Pliny the Younger or Pliny the Elder, but we can safely say that the idea behind allowing self-termination in society dates back to at least the beginning of the second century AD, if not sooner (the Younger died sometime around 112 AD, according to our friend, the Wiki.)

 

Hume goes on to say:

I believe that no man ever threw away life, while it was worth keeping. For such is our natural horror of death, that small motives will never be able to reconcile us to it; and though perhaps the situation of a man's health and fortune did not seem to require this remedy, we may at least be assured, that any one who, without apparent reason, has had recourse to it, was curst[sic] with such an incurable depravity or gloominess of temper as must poison all enjoyment, and render equally miserable as if he had been loaded with the most grievous misfortunes.

 

The essay itself is a philosophical treatise in an attempt to prove that suicide, in and of itself, is not a "crime", though not strictly in the legal sense of that term. Hume uses the word to denote "a transgression of our duty, either to God, our neighbor, or ourselves." His aim, I believe, is to offer up arguments as to why suicide should not be considered a dereliction of those duties (and in some cases a mortal sin).

------------------

¹- I have no idea if this link references the entire essay or not. I have a printed copy from the following source, and I know the link does not include the footnotes (or at least not that I saw) that are included in my copy.

Popkin, Richard H (Ed.). (1980). David Hume: Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion and the Posthumous Essays. Indianapolis: Hackett Publishing Co. ISBN: 0-9105144-45-X

 

Edited to add a break between the reply and the footnote, as well as to fix some grammar issues. All that money on university level English classes - wasted.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Greg H.

[pmb]

is it because of the absence of religion ...

I doubt it.

 

also, would you (whoever is reading this) consider committing suicide?

Yes. In fact I tried it back in February. I have a damaged spinal cord (four herniated disks) and the pain was too much to live with. I begged doctors for help but they ignored my pleas. So I took a razor and sliced my throat open. In a moment of weakness I called my oncologist to take one last shot at getting help. That plea went unheard yet again. Byt he police came, busted down the floor and then I ended up in a VA nut house for a month.

 

do you believe in suicide?

Yes. But only in cases like mine, i.e. when you're suffering far too much with no end in site. I still wish my first attempt back in 2000 failed. I could have missed all that suffering in the mean time. Man-O-Man, you can't believe the amount of pain you can get when you have a herniated disk. Its freaky bad!

 

I have heard also that the smarter (i.e. higher IQ) you are the more likely you are of committing suicide. Is there any truth behind this?

I heard that too. Perhaps smart people are tired of being around so many people who aren't as smart as they are.

Edited June 3, 2012 by pmb

[Greg H.]

I have heard also that the smarter (i.e. higher IQ) you are the more likely you are of committing suicide. Is there any truth behind this?

I heard that too. Perhaps smart people are tired of being around so many people who aren't as smart as they are.

 

I doubt it. If that were the case we'd probably still be living like serfs in the late middle ages as all of history's geniuses offed themselves in a pique of "no one understands me, boo-hoo".

My supposition is that if we looked at a cross-section of IQ to high stress environment (job, family, education, societal duties) you'd find the underlying cause of the seeming correlation.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Greg H.

[Appolinaria]

Have you ever read David Hume's essay "Of Suicide"¹? He considered the right to choose to end your own life to be as unalienable as any of the other civil rights we have come to know and enjoy (at least in the US). One of the footnotes in my copy of the essay mentions this:

 

 

It doesn't mention if this was Pliny the Younger or Pliny the Elder, but we can safely say that the idea behind allowing self-termination in society dates back to at least the beginning of the second century AD, if not sooner (the Younger died sometime around 112 AD, according to our friend, the Wiki.)

 

Hume goes on to say:

 

 

The essay itself is a philosophical treatise in an attempt to prove that suicide, in and of itself, is not a "crime", though not strictly in the legal sense of that term. Hume uses the word to denote "a transgression of our duty, either to God, our neighbor, or ourselves." His aim, I believe, is to offer up arguments as to why suicide should not be considered a dereliction of those duties (and in some cases a mortal sin).

------------------

¹- I have no idea if this link references the entire essay or not. I have a printed copy from the following source, and I know the link does not include the footnotes (or at least not that I saw) that are included in my copy.

Popkin, Richard H (Ed.). (1980). David Hume: Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion and the Posthumous Essays. Indianapolis: Hackett Publishing Co. ISBN: 0-9105144-45-X

 

Edited to add a break between the reply and the footnote, as well as to fix some grammar issues. All that money on university level English classes - wasted.

 

 

Greg H., thank you so much for sharing this. Definitely something I'm very interested in reading.

 

I doubt it.

 

 

Yes. In fact I tried it back in February. I have a damaged spinal cord (four herniated disks) and the pain was too much to live with. I begged doctors for help but they ignored my pleas. So I took a razor and sliced my throat open. In a moment of weakness I called my oncologist to take one last shot at getting help. That plea went unheard yet again. Byt he police came, busted down the floor and then I ended up in a VA nut house for a month.

 

 

Yes. But only in cases like mine, i.e. when you're suffering far too much with no end in site. I still wish my first attempt back in 2000 failed. I could have missed all that suffering in the mean time. Man-O-Man, you can't believe the amount of pain you can get when you have a herniated disk. Its freaky bad!

 

 

I heard that too. Perhaps smart people are tired of being around so many people who aren't as smart as they are.

 

That's awful, pmb

If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone. Many people suffer and are ignored. It is terrible.

 

What is your situation now if you don't mind?

[pmb]

That's awful, pmb

If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone. Many people suffer and are ignored. It is terrible.

 

What is your situation now if you don't mind?

I'm now on Suboxone. That means that I'm in mild to moderate pain but only if I don't leave the house, wherein it gets much worse. And people don't understand why I get irritated easily!! lol!!

 

Now I'm told I am at high risk for diabetes and it I don't eat better and get more exericise I'll most likely to contract it. There's a catch 22 for ya! Then again I'd wager that with diabetes it'd be easier to commit suicide.

Edited June 4, 2012 by pmb

[Appolinaria]

I'm now on Suboxone. That means that I'm in mild to moderate pain but only if I don't leave the house. Then it gets worse.

 

Oh man. I've witnessed a similar situation. You are a very strong person to just be here right now.

 

Now I'm told I am at high risk for diabetes and it I don't eat better and get more exericise I'll most likely to contract it. There's a catch 22 for ya! Then again I'd wager that with diabetes it'd be easier to commit suicide.

 

I'm sorry you're in so much pain and can't get any relief.

[pmb]

Oh man. I've witnessed a similar situation. You are a very strong person to just be here right now.

 

 

 

I'm sorry you're in so much pain and can't get any relief.

That's kind of you to say. Funny part of all of this is that I injured my back just as I was going back to work. I was actually alrady disabled due to the attack of Leukemia. Sheesh! I should never have tried to go back to work. LOL!!