Scientific States

[juanrga]

This is a discussion about scientific states (physical, chemical, biological...) which is not usual in textbook and other resources (an exception seems to be quantum mechanics textbooks, which devote some space to discuss what is a quantum state).

 

Among material not covered in basic textbooks and encyclopedias I would emphasize that I introduce a hierarchical description of states first developed by Joel Keizer; a rejection of the "Bayesian interpretation of physics" over the basis of recent advances in statistical dynamics; and the proposal for substituting the term "physical states of matter" by the more adequate and precise term "phase of matter" (I include a link to a NASA page that is already using the new terminology). I also emphasize that p in thermodynamics state (T,p,N) is the pressure of the system (many textbooks got this wrong and claim that p is the pressure of surrounds).

 

Educated comments, doubts, and suggestions to include material are welcomed.

Edited June 6, 2012 by juanrga

[John Cuthber]

The first line

"A scientific state is the condition in which a scientific system exists."

fails to explain what a "scientific system" is.

How can a system be "scientific" or not?

[juanrga]

The first line

"A scientific state is the condition in which a scientific system exists."

fails to explain what a "scientific system" is.

How can a system be "scientific" or not?

 

Cultural systems, systems studied in philosophy,... are not scientific systems. Biological systems are an example of scientific systems.

Edited June 6, 2012 by juanrga

[studiot]

A scientific state is the condition in which a scientific system exists.

 

Suggest a better alternative would be

 

A scientific state is any single? uniquely identifiable? condition in which a scientific system can exist.

 

This then allows you to usher in discussion about the probabilities of any given state and partition functions etc.

 

Whilst I have no problem understanding what you mean, like John Cutherber I don't like the term scientific very much. I don't see that its use adds anything.

 

I also realise that defining 'state' succinctly is a difficult task and that any resonable definition is likely to end up rambling on.

 

I think replacing it with a near synonym like 'condition' is not good either. 'Condition' really means something slightly different.

 

To me the state or list of states available to a system is composed of a list containing a value or the range of values attainable by parameters or properties of interest. These properties may be directly observable or deducable from observables.

 

I hope this helps and I hope this thread does not degenerate like others recently.

This is an open invitation to all to cooperate rather than confront.

Edited June 6, 2012 by studiot

[juanrga]

Suggest a better alternative would be

 

A scientific state is any single? uniquely identifiable? condition in which a scientific system can exist.

 

This then allows you to usher in discussion about the probabilities of any given state and partition functions etc.

 

Whilst I have no problem understanding what you mean, like John Cutherber I don't like the term scientific very much. I don't see that its use adds anything.

 

I also realise that defining 'state' succinctly is a difficult task and that any resonable definition is likely to end up rambling on.

 

I think replacing it with a near synonym like 'condition' is not good either. 'Condition' really means something slightly different.

 

To me the state or list of states available to a system is composed of a list containing a value or the range of values attainable by parameters or properties of interest. These properties may be directly observable or deducable from observables.

 

I hope this helps and I hope this thread does not degenerate like others recently.

This is an open invitation to all to cooperate rather than confront.

 

I am not sure if a scientific state is any single uniquely identifiable condition or is not. I will think about that.

 

The first phrase in the encyclopedic article is only an introduction to the topic. Below it is explained that a state summarizes the collection of observables or properties associated to a system. I gave some concrete example.

[studiot]

Below it is explained that a state summarizes the collection of observables or properties associated to a system.

 

So we have the same idea.

 

 

I hadn't fully read that far in your article, perhaps I will read more now.

 

I think it is useful, important even, to identify the fact that a system may have one, several, many or even an infinite number of states available, but can only occupy one at a time. Obviously the separate elements of an aggregate can individually occupy different states as I have already noted.

[juanrga]

I think it is useful, important even, to identify the fact that a system may have one, several, many or even an infinite number of states available, but can only occupy one at a time.

 

This is what "the scientific state of a physical, chemical, or biological system is given by [...] n=n[t]" means. I think that the existence of a unique state n at a given time t could be also emphasized in the text using words.

[studiot]

I still don't like the use of the word 'condition'.

 

In engineering there is a term 'condition factor' which is just one of many ponderables in the modern method of design known as 'Limit State Design'.

 

You may not be aware of this, I would be happy to elaborate.

 

I still haven't finished reading your article so there may be more to come.

 

Here is one typo paragraph 5

 

current supercomputers have no enough memory : correction not

Edited June 7, 2012 by studiot

[juanrga]

Thanks