Are Europeans Pedophiles?

[Doctorbeanjuice]

In Europe the legal age for sex is really low - like 14 in Germany, Portugal, Italy and Austria. In Spain its 13!!!1 This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual (without coercion etc).

 

Does this mean the Europeans are pedophiles? Does it mean it's legal to be a pedophile in Europe?

[timo]

Absolutely. It's genetic. All people genetically inheriting from the medieval Europeans are pedophiles. There's nothing you can do about it.

[CaptainPanic]

I'm no lawyer, but I guess the answer to your question: "This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual" is "yes".

 

But I wish the old guy a lot of luck in court, explaining that he did not trick her into the bed, by any kind of intimidation. Because with such an age difference, court is a very likely place to end up. Also, it's socially completely not accepted to have a large age gap in any relation...

 

If something is legal, does not mean it is common. And if something is disgusting or morally wrong, it does not mean you must make it illegal. So, "Are Europeans pedophiles?" is a really stupid question. It's as stupid as asking: Hey, Americans can buy a gun when they are 16. Are all American highschool kids murderers?

[Phi for All]

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Moderator Note

Since it seems obvious that this thread's topic question is grossly generalized and aimed solely at denigrating an entire continent of humans, let's instead answer the question of why there are such different perspectives on age of consent. There is obviously no need for anyone to defend themselves in this regard, and any flaming attacks will always be considered against our rules.

Or, if the membership feels that the thread is simply an attempt at trolling, make your points known via the Report Post function and the thread will be closed.

[CaptainPanic]

I'm involved in this thread as a member, not as a mod. But I like this troll. We Europeans have been bashing those poor Americans (verbally) often enough, about gun laws, invasions of Middle Eastern countries, about being the ultimate capitalists, or their lack of democracy.

 

The possession of the ball has changed. The US quarterback has it, and he made the pass. It's time the Europeans defend.

It's just quite disappointing that this is the best pass he could make. A generalization is such an obvious fallacy, that it's hardly a challenge.

 

We need a better troll.

 

 

Let's follow Phi's suggestion, and "let's instead answer the question of why there are such different perspectives on age of consent."

I have no clue... perhaps such strict laws are simply not necessary in Europe, because we're not really into relations with a large age difference?

 

[edit] hmm... now I am also still generalizing.

[Doctorbeanjuice]

I'm no lawyer, but I guess the answer to your question: "This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual" is "yes".

 

But I wish the old guy a lot of luck in court, explaining that he did not trick her into the bed, by any kind of intimidation. Because with such an age difference, court is a very likely place to end up. Also, it's socially completely not accepted to have a large age gap in any relation...

 

 

What if he didn't trick her? What if the 14 year old seduced him? Or what if it was a younger, more attractive man? Do you honestly think every incident of child-adult sex involves coercion of some kind?

 

If it's not socially acceptable why is it legal?

[imatfaal]

I think it is clear to most people who have shared a school class with children/young adults of a set age that any line drawing regarding development is going to be arbitrary and fairly meaningless; and 'one size fits all' means the majority have the wrong size. We do as polities feel the need to set ages of consent - and whilst it is very easy to identify the too low and the too high; these identifications are often just as arbitrary, contextual, and personal. Personally, I think that any government that sets the age of consent higher than the legal minimum to carry a firearm or join military service has its priorities completely screwed. I also think the age of consent should be very close to the age of criminal responsibility - if you can form the mens rea (the mental component of an offence) then you can make a decision about sex. A court can establish the grounds for a rape conviction without the need for strict liability.

 

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Moderator Note

I have split off the age of criminal responsibility side issue that I started - oops

[D H]

This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual (without coercion etc).

No, it doesn't. It means that two teenagers in Europe can have sex with one another without too many repercussions. Shocking as this may sound, teenagers in the US are having sex with one another, too.

 

One part of the difference between age of consent laws in continental Europe versus the US is that the US is a bit puritanical in its views on sex. Unmarried people aren't supposed to have sex. Age of consent laws in the US essentially establish an age limit for marriage.

 

Another factor is the difference between civil law (continental Europe) and common law (Britain and its former colonies). Judges have a lot more leeway in civil law nations than the do in common law nations -- if the law doesn't get in the way, that is. So laws in civil law nations are often written so they won't get in the way. Having sex with a twelve year old is obviously wrong. The law is hard and fast here. Having sex with a 14 year old? That depends on the circumstances. Two horny teenagers will get a slap on the hand and be told to use birth control. Your forty year old man having sex with a 14 year old can easily be tossed into a nasty Spanish prison.

[John Cuthber]

On a related note, does anyone know if Americans are still permitted to have sex with animals?

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=129_SB_191

[Phi for All]

On a related note, does anyone know if Americans are still permitted to have sex with animals?

http://www.legislatu...m?ID=129_SB_191

Only if it's solely for gratifying the sexual desires of an Ohioan animal, apparently.

[Appolinaria]

Necrophilia aint no felony.

[zapatos]

On a related note, does anyone know if Americans are still permitted to have sex with animals?

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=129_SB_191

Apparently not as much as on the other side of the Atlantic...

 

In Belgium it is legal to have sex with animals, just not to film and embarass the animals...

Legal. However, the spreading of zoophilia pornography is not, according to a court ruling in 2006 against a man who frequently had sex with dogs in a shelter he had worked for. He was acquitted from the charge of animal abuse and was only found guilty of violating public decency by spreading zoophilia pornographic material

 

Go Denmark!

Legal.[46] A 2006 bid by the Danish People's Party to outlaw bestiality failed ...

 

Finland is ok with it as long as there is no rough sex...

Legal, as long as no physical harm is made to the animal...

 

Germany is getting even more liberal!

In West Germany, the law making it a crime (§175b StGB) was removed in 1969.

 

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. In Hungary...

Legal, as long as no physical harm is made to the animal.

 

I was going to visit Sweden but I'm having second thoughts. What else goes on over there???

Legal. It was formerly illegal, but made legal in 1944.

 

Edit: Oops. Forgot the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia_and_the_law

Edited June 7, 2012 by zapatos

[CaptainPanic]

What if he didn't trick her? What if the 14 year old seduced him? Or what if it was a younger, more attractive man? Do you honestly think every incident of child-adult sex involves coercion of some kind?

 

If it's not socially acceptable why is it legal?

Let me reply to your question with a question. Why should every person do the socially acceptable thing? Why should you outlaw things that the majority disagrees with? Why should the social peer pressure not be enough already? And where do you propose to draw the line? Which other socially unacceptable things do you propose to outlaw?

 

Sorry for generalizing, but since we started doing that anyway... I think you're just a typical American: superficially prudish. You don't care about any social behavior in general, you just have a knee-jerk reaction to sex-related issues only.

 

There's no point in making it illegal, because it hardly ever comes up anyway. If a 14-year-old has sex, it's usually with someone of the same age, or just a few years more. Who cares? Young people want to experiment with sex. The schools should give them proper sexual education. Contraceptives should be available. And the rest is up to the parents.

 

I cannot speak for the entire continent, but I think even a relatively small age difference of just 3-5 years is very uncommon.

[D H]

Preservatives should be available.

Kinky!

 

 

Edited to add:

I think you meant some word other than preservatives. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preservative.

Edited June 7, 2012 by D H

[CaptainPanic]

Kinky.

Oops, I'll edit that one

Don't know what I was thinking, but it's obviously "contraceptives".

 

That's embarrassing. Also, thanks for not even giving me one minute to fix it. That'll teach me for being online late.

[D H]

Oops, I'll edit that one

Don't know what I was thinking

Wood preservatives?

[CaptainPanic]

Wood preservatives?

LOL! This is going off topic, but no, that's certainly NOT what I was thinking.

 

Hmpf, maybe we should go back on topic, before some grumpy mod (not me) will split off this bit to create a whole thread about stupid mistakes.

 

[edit] zapatos, you too seem to think that things that are legal are also common. Why do you think that?

[Fuzzwood]

Apparently not as much as on the other side of the Atlantic...

 

In Belgium it is legal to have sex with animals, just not to film and embarass the animals...

 

 

Go Denmark!

 

 

Finland is ok with it as long as there is no rough sex...

 

 

Germany is getting even more liberal!

 

 

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. In Hungary...

 

 

I was going to visit Sweden but I'm having second thoughts. What else goes on over there???

 

 

Edit: Oops. Forgot the link.

http://en.wikipedia....lia_and_the_law

 

Tbh dont see your problem, it's a different species. So what?

[zapatos]

zapatos, you too seem to think that things that are legal are also common. Why do you think that?

Why are you under the impression that I think that? How did you get that out of my post?

 

Tbh dont see your problem, it's a different species. So what?

Did I say I have a problem?

 

Although I guess I do have one problem, which is why it seems to be such as mystery that a post about sex with animals in America would prompt a post about sex with animals in Europe.

 

I guess it was a mistake on my part. CP made a post which sounded to me like there was a bit of US/Europe jousting going on. JC then threw into the mix a question about the legality of bestiality in the US. I was just playing along.

 

For the record, I don't think bestiality is common in Europe, and I didn't mean to impunge Fuzzwood's views on interspecies copulation.

 

I will now move on to less serious topics...

[John Cuthber]

Most of the valid points have now been raised. I think we are just flogging a dead horse here.

[Polak]

Well, in Poland the legal sex age is 16. I'm suprised that is not bat age, cose in other coutry the age is lower

In my opinion we can't say: (all)Europeans are pedophiles.

This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual (without coercion etc).

Meybe they've got some problems with their brain? There can be psychological problems.

P.S.

Sry for my english

[ewmon]

So, getting back to those low-age-of-consent middle schoolers in Europe, where is the concern that girls will become baby factories and ruin their opportunity for a decent education and career? Doesn't this sort of thing seriously impede the progress of women's girl's rights?

[CaptainPanic]

So, getting back to those low-age-of-consent middle schoolers in Europe, where is the concern that girls will become baby factories and ruin their opportunity for a decent education and career? Doesn't this sort of thing seriously impede the progress of women's girl's rights?

I am guessing (no facts here) that most teenage pregnancies are caused by careless sex among young people. The male partner is often also very young.

 

You can change the laws, but you cannot change biology. At a certain age, and certainly younger than 18, kids become interested in the other sex. Sometimes so interested that it becomes intimate... and that can lead to a pregnancy. Changing the law does not help... this is a force of nature.

 

The fact that law has nothing to do with it can be backed up with facts: Wikipedia clearly shows that teenage pregnancy in almost all European countries is lower than in the USA, where laws are more strict.

[edit]In fact, looking at the numbers, the USA has more than 6 times as many teenage births as some European countries, such as the Netherlands or Spain!

 

Education is the key here... not some stupid law.

[Arete]

I guess the first question that comes to mind is "Is age of consent representative of the actual age that people have their first sexual encounter?"

 

In the US, age of consent varies by state but is between 16 and 18.

 

This report by the Kinsey Institute suggests that over a quarter of US teens have have had sex by the age of 15 and up to 40% of US teens have by the age of 16.

 

So I think the relationship between having sex at a young age and the nation's age of consent needs to be shown to be positively correlated before one can make assumptions of national sexual behavior based on the age of consent. Further, the US ranks in at 13th youngest in terms of when individuals experience their first sexual encounter:

 

 

I'm not convinced there is any correlation.

 

Most of the valid points have now been raised. I think we are just flogging a dead horse here.

 

I see what you did there.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Arete

[swansont]

Strictly speaking, AFAIK pedophilia is attraction to/sex with pre-pubescent children. So while an adult having sex with a 14 year old may or may not be socially acceptable, depending on where you live, it is not pedophilia.

 

I see what you did there.

 

Voyeur.