GM crops

[ydoaPs]

Just to settle the whole are potatoes poisonous thing.

 

We're talking potatoes pre-human intervention. Yes, they were indeed poisonous.

[Greg H.]

We're talking potatoes pre-human intervention. Yes, they were indeed poisonous.

 

 

They still are. Did you bother to read the link to Solanine at all? For example:

 

Showing green under the skin strongly suggests solanine build-up in potatoes, although each process can occur without the other. A bitter taste in a potato is another, potentially more reliable indicator of toxicity. Because of the bitter taste and appearance of such potatoes, solanine poisoning is rare outside conditions of food shortage. The symptoms are mainly vomiting and diarrhea, and the condition may be misdiagnosed as gastroenteritis. Most potato poisoning victims recover fully, although fatalities are known, especially when victims are undernourished or do not receive suitable treatment.^[5] Fatalities are also known from solanine poisoning from other plants in the nightshade family, such as the berries of Solanum dulcamara (woody nightshade).^[6]

 

The United States National Institutes of Health's information on solanine says to never eat potatoes that are green below the skin.

 

 

 

[too-open-minded]

So...... yeah, GM making everyone buy their seeds every year. lol.

 

Another thing, Red meat isn't easily digested but we still eat it. Candy and high-sugar bearing soft drinks are widely accepted. A cashew is poisonous but you can eat it after its been cooked. Potatoes, would you really eat one raw?

 

Hey! If your not an idiot read about the role fire has played in evolution, http://salmonriver.com/words/nancy/firefood.html

 

Why are we even talking about this? Please god tell me your not conspirasists.

Edited July 14, 2012 by too-open-minded

[studiot]

too-open-minded

 

So...... yeah, GM making everyone buy their seeds every year. lol.

 

 

Thank you for introducing the point I referred to in my first post in this thread, that somehow led to a jibe about poisonous potatoes.

 

Moontanman thank you for that quote about andean potatoes, I have learned something.

 

moontanman

Native American culture consisted of quite a bit more than wondering tribes... In Central and South America they had huge stone cities and built pyramids of stones, seriously are you just baiting me?

 

 

Not at all I have temendous respect for the cultures (there were many) of the population native to the americas but I think that is off topic and have therefore been trying to keep my discussion down on that topic.

However I would be happy to discuss it on a more friendly basis in another thread.

For instance the fact that the central / south structures were, I understand, built without metal tools - a considerably greater achievement that that of the ancient egyptians and babylonians.

Further I understand their pyramids were not basically large solid structures with small voids but basically full buildings in the more modern sense.

Perhaps we could also discuss the area of Patagonia where they speak Welsh?

Or the destruction of the Hugenots by Cardinal Richlieu at La Rochelle in France?

Edited July 14, 2012 by studiot

[Jebus]

On the subject of having to buy seeds every year, the seeds are patented. How would you feel if someone was making money with the products you created?

[Arete]

On the subject of having to buy seeds every year, the seeds are patented. How would you feel if someone was making money with the products you created?

 

Indeed. One of the fundamental reasons for GM crop sterility is to prevent horizontal gene transfer with non-GM crops and wild plants, and to prevent them from spreading and becoming pests themselves.

 

Calling the companies out on sterilizing their crops while simultaneously deriding the potential environmental impacts of GM crops is putting them in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either you allow the crops to be fertile and face increased risk of escape of the modified genes into the enviroment, or you sterilize them.

[Jebus]

Indeed. One of the fundamental reasons for GM crop sterility is to prevent horizontal gene transfer with non-GM crops and wild plants, and to prevent them from spreading and becoming pests themselves.

 

Calling the companies out on sterilizing their crops while simultaneously deriding the potential environmental impacts of GM crops is putting them in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either you allow the crops to be fertile and face increased risk of escape of the modified genes into the enviroment, or you sterilize them.

 

Yeah, I was going to touch on that too, but you said it better than I would have.

[studiot]

Going back to potatoes, what is the reason for the sterility of Maris Piper?

 

It can have nothing to do with modern gene manipulation.

[JMJones0424]

Going back to potatoes, what is the reason for the sterility of Maris Piper?

 

It can have nothing to do with modern gene manipulation.

 

I have not grown this particular cultivar, Maris Piper, but I couldn't find any reference to its inability to produce viable seed after a quick google search. Commercial potato varieties, like many other agricultural crops, do not typically breed true, so in order to maintain a particular cultivar, you plant seed potatoes rather than true potato seed. This does not mean that the seeds produced by the plant are not viable. If your vines aren't producing seed, then they may not be well suited to your conditions. I've dabbled in saving seed from potatoes, but I don't regularly do it because I don't regularly plant very many potato vines, but if you have a particular question I may be able to help, or you may find a search for "true potato seed" to be helpful.

[Moontanman]

I've never grown potatoes from anything but seed potatoes or cut up bits of old potatoes...

[zapatos]

On the subject of having to buy seeds every year, the seeds are patented. How would you feel if someone was making money with the products you created?

Not to mention that no one ever has to buy the seeds. They instead choose to buy the seeds. If the farmers didn't think it was the best decision for them they wouldn't be doing it.

[Moontanman]

Not to mention that no one ever has to buy the seeds. They instead choose to buy the seeds. If the farmers didn't think it was the best decision for them they wouldn't be doing it.

 

 

I have to agree with that, i remember my grandfather who grew many acres of corn would always buy his field corn seed but kept his own strain of sweet corn going. he planted his sweet corn literally miles away from his field corn or any other corn. He kept ears and dried them out and grew the corn that crystallized sugar after they had dried, his sweet corn had smallish ears but was sweet beyond belief...

 

Talking about all this corn just inspired me to put three ears in the microwave, mmmm, nuked corn on the cob... I live near a farmer who grows his own....

[studiot]

I have to agree with that, i remember my grandfather who grew many acres of corn would always buy his field corn seed but kept his own strain of sweet corn going. he planted his sweet corn literally miles away from his field corn or any other corn. He kept ears and dried them out and grew the corn that crystallized sugar after they had dried, his sweet corn had smallish ears but was sweet beyond belief...

 

 

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

 

You can't buy a decent tomato/apple/runnerbean/potato/........ in the supermarket because they decent varieties are not available.

 

They have been bred for one purpose and one purpose only.

 

Profit.

 

And we have seen with bankers in recent weeks and years who profits and who looses.

[too-open-minded]

zapatos-No, farmers do have to buy the seeds if they have intentions of selling the crop. I think the argument you are trying to make is, farmers don't have to sell their crops.

 

American corn feeds alot of people, it would be inhumane to allow a farmer to make more money by using last years seeds at the expense of thousands of lives.

Corn goes into making alot of things including baby diapers to charcoal.

[Jebus]

[zapatos]

zapatos-No, farmers do have to buy the seeds if they have intentions of selling the crop. I think the argument you are trying to make is, farmers don't have to sell their crops.

No. Farmers can make their own seed corn from this year's crop to plant next year. If they do so they do not need to buy corn seed each year.

 

The issue comes up with, for example, Monsanto's patented genetically modified corn. Farmers are not allowed to make their own seed corn from this year's crop and plant it next year. If they want to plant Monsanto's corn they must buy it each year.

 

The point I was making is that no one makes you buy Monsanto's GM corn next year. You can buy it elsewhere or make your own.

 

American corn feeds alot of people, it would be inhumane to allow a farmer to make more money by using last years seeds at the expense of thousands of lives.

This is done all the time. I'd like to see evidence that this results in the loss of thousands of lives.

[too-open-minded]

Their trying to prevent your evidence from being their.

 

Your missing the point, yes farmers can grow the corn but they cant have intentions of selling the corn comercially if its last years seeds.

[zapatos]

Your missing the point, yes farmers can grow the corn but they cant have intentions of selling the corn comercially if its last years seeds.

Yes, they can. Unless they are buying patented seeds from someone like Monsanto.

[too-open-minded]

I know farmers and took their word for the information im giving, what are your sources? I'm not saying your wrong I may be wrong.

[immortal]

Neither the supporters of GM nor its opponents know the real risks and the benefits of GM crops. Humans should be preservers of Bio-Diversity and not its destroyers. It means whether it is the use of a pesticide or the introduction of a new strain of resistant gene or selective breeding effective measures should be taken that the organism carrying that beneficiary gene or the trait should not affect the environment and other organisms so much that non-targeted organisms and its competitors go extinct.

 

Engineered Corn and Monarch Butterflies

 

Toxic pollen from widely planted, genetically modified corn can kill monarch butterflies, Cornell study shows

 

A transgression of GM crops - Nature

Maize, Genes, and Peer Review

 

Caterpillars safe from some type of Bt corn - Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Sciences, June 2000.

 

Recent experiments have shown that DNA is transferred from organelles to the nucleus at frequencies that were previously unimaginable. - Nature

 

Jumping genes get alarmists worked up - Nature

Are genetically modified crops promiscuous? - Joy Bergelson, Nature, september 1998.

 

Scientific American on the Pusztai GE Food Safety Controversy - Organic Consumers Association.

 

Stirring the pot: the Doomsday weapons and GM.

 

Monsanto's herbicide-resistant soya beans cracking in the heat.

 

If GM crops and GMO are not effectively screened with the ESA and EPA guidelines and pre-cautionary measures it shouldn't be allowed. The Europeans have done the right thing by banning GM.

[Jebus]

There is risk in everything, should we ban nanotechnology as well?

 

Edited July 15, 2012 by Jebus

[studiot]

Indeed. One of the fundamental reasons for GM crop sterility is to prevent horizontal gene transfer with non-GM crops and wild plants, and to prevent them from spreading and becoming pests themselves.

 

I can see the reason for the second clause (I have not italicised) although I cannot see why it would be any worse than old farmer M'ginty's scabby potaotoes spreading.

 

However I cannot see an overt reason for the first italicised clause so please explain the good scientific reason for this.

Edited July 15, 2012 by studiot

[Arete]

However I cannot see an overt reason for the first italicised clause so please explain the good scientific reason for this.

 

Hybridization and subsequent introgression occurs readily between cultivated plants like maize, rice, sunflower, etc, and their wild-type relations. In addition, pollen from these plants has high dispersal capability.

 

If the pollen from GM crops was viable, it would readily spread from the crops to native, wild populations of related species and create hybrid individuals with modified genes introgressed in their genomes. Thus the modified genes would escape into natural populations.

 

http://onlinelibrary...enticated=false

http://www.jstor.org...sid=56308962303

http://web.sau.edu/biology/faculty/halfhill/PDFs/stewartnrgintrogression2003.pdf

Edited July 15, 2012 by Arete

[Greg H.]

Hybridization and subsequent introgression occurs readily between cultivated plants like maize, rice, sunflower, etc, and their wild-type relations. In addition, pollen from these plants has high dispersal capability.

 

If the pollen from GM crops was viable, it would readily spread from the crops to native, wild populations of related species and create hybrid individuals with modified genes introgressed in their genomes. Thus the modified genes would escape into natural populations.

 

http://onlinelibrary...enticated=false

http://www.jstor.org...sid=56308962303

http://web.sau.edu/b...ression2003.pdf

 

In short, if your native corn suddenly shows up with a patented gene in it, you still don't have to abide by the terms of the licensing agreement, but you get the benefits of it. It's all about protecting the investment - at least until the patent expires.

[studiot]

Yes, Arete, I am not dumb.

 

You stated two reasons joined by the conjuction and.

 

I agreed with the second reason and asked for an explanation of the first.

 

Repeating the explanation of the second does not constitute an explanation of the first.