ecoli Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 What more evidence is needed... how about causal evidence?
MyWifesSkin Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 What more evidence is needed... how about causal evidence? Fletcher characterises the fact that there is little autism in Somalia but much autism when they move to aggressively vaccinated countries as 'causal' evidence. -1
Ringer Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Because it has nothing to do with the overall poor medical and psychiatric care in those areas.
JMJones0424 Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Fletcher characterises the fact that there is little autism in Somalia but much autism when they move to aggressively vaccinated countries as 'causal' evidence. This is a logical fallacy. Correlation does not imply causation. Somali citizens might experience different rates of autism outside of Somalia for any number of reasons. You can't assume it's simply because of vaccines, you need to show that it is. It could just as easily be that autism diagnosis in Somalia is poor. It could be other factors. Without causal evidence, the correlation is just that, a correlation.
Arete Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) "What More Evidence is Needed?" And the global decline of swashbuckling privateers causes global warming. Your "evidence" confuses simultaneity with causality http://www.forbes.co...global-warming/ I could also argue that the fact that there is 0.04 doctors per 1000 people in Somalia and 2.9 doctors per 1000 people in Denmark, that rates of diagnosis for all cognitive disorders might be higher in Denmark than Somalia simply due to the accessibility to a medical professional being 73 times better in Denmark than it is in Somalia - and that rates of diagnosis are a a heavily biased and effectively useless measure of prevalence of disease between undeveloped nations with extremely inadequate access to health care, and countries with the best access to health care in the world. http://www.nationmas...er-1-000-people Edited July 20, 2012 by Arete
MyWifesSkin Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) And the global decline of swashbuckling privateers causes global warming. Your "evidence" confuses simultaneity with causality http://www.forbes.co...global-warming/ I could also argue that the fact that there is 0.04 doctors per 1000 people in Somalia and 2.9 doctors per 1000 people in Denmark, that rates of diagnosis for all cognitive disorders might be higher in Denmark than Somalia simply due to the accessibility to a medical professional being 73 times better in Denmark than it is in Somalia - and that rates of diagnosis are a a heavily biased and effectively useless measure of prevalence of disease between undeveloped nations with extremely inadequate access to health care, and countries with the best access to health care in the world. http://www.nationmas...er-1-000-people The Amish take care of the 'the Somalis don't have all our wonderful PROFESSIONALS' argument, incidentally are people claiming psychiatry as a science!!!!????!!!!????? (sorry to breach board guidelines), you seem to totally equate science with power. This what you mean by 'causal'? 'Thymerosol, added to many vaccines, is an ethyl mercury, think Minimata, delivery system.' These data cast doubt on the efficacy of traditional hair analysis as a measure of total mercury exposure in a subset of the population. In light of the biological plausibility of mercury's role in neurodevelopmental disorders, the present study provides further insight into one possible mechanism by which early mercury exposures could increase the risk of autism. Hair mercury levels in the autistic group were 0.47 ppm versus 3.63 ppm in controls, a significant difference. The mothers in the autistic group had significantly ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12933322 BBC NEWS | Health | Mercury 'linked to autism' 18 Jun 2003 ... US researchers looked at mercury levels in the baby hair of children who later developed autism, a developmental disability that affects how a ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3000884.stm Edited July 20, 2012 by MyWifesSkin
Ringer Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 The Amish take care of the 'the Somalis don't have all our wonderful PROFESSIONALS' argument, incidentally are people claiming psychiatry as a science!!!!????!!!!????? (sorry to breach board guidelines), you seem to totally equate science with power. This what you mean by 'causal'? 'Thymerosol, added to many vaccines, is an ethyl mercury, think Minimata, delivery system.' These data cast doubt on the efficacy of traditional hair analysis as a measure of total mercury exposure in a subset of the population. In light of the biological plausibility of mercury's role in neurodevelopmental disorders, the present study provides further insight into one possible mechanism by which early mercury exposures could increase the risk of autism. Hair mercury levels in the autistic group were 0.47 ppm versus 3.63 ppm in controls, a significant difference. The mothers in the autistic group had significantly ... http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12933322 BBC NEWS | Health | Mercury 'linked to autism' 18 Jun 2003 ... US researchers looked at mercury levels in the baby hair of children who later developed autism, a developmental disability that affects how a ... http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/3000884.stm The only way these things can be linked together is if the babies couldn't process the mercury in the first place. Can you guess what that means? They had symptoms correlated to autism before they had the vaccine. Not to mention that since 2001, when thimersol was taken out of childhood vaccines, autism rates have kept going up. Why would the rates not go down since thimersol isn't in the vaccinations anymore? http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal_faqs.html#6 More to read:http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/MMR/MMR.html#Research http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/00_pdf/CDCStudiesonVaccinesandAutism.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Thimerosal/QA_Pediatrics-thimerosal-autism.html 1
Arete Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) The Amish take care of the 'the Somalis don't have all our wonderful PROFESSIONALS' argument, incidentally are people claiming psychiatry as a science!!!!????!!!!????? (sorry to breach board guidelines), you seem to totally equate science To add to Ringer's post - it is unsurprising that a group of people who seek western medical attention at a lower rate than the average populous have a lower rate of diagnosis. A lower rate of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASDs) in the Amish proves nothing in relation the MMR/autism given this and numerous other compounding factors, given the numerous lifestyle, heritable, diet, etc differences between the Amish and general population which are not controlled for. "As such, they do not typically use western medicine unless it is absolutely necessary or if an illness is in an advanced state. The Amish do not have medical insurance. They pay for their care in cash, and not with credit. Large medical bills are usually covered communally through Amish financial cooperatives. As the Amish are rural dwellers, most also do not live near any health facilities and require transportation for medical care." http://www.iowahealt...ments/amish.pdf You need to conduct a controlled study, not an arm-waving speculative comparison. Many such studies have been conducted and found no evidence of a correlation - see post #4 in this thread. Edited July 21, 2012 by Arete 2
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