Why is there a reputation system?

[Robert Oppenheimer]

I'm personally against reputation systems in general, but perhaps there are ways to improve the one we have right now.

 

Consider, for example, that a negative reputation has to be reviewed by a moderator (or some other higher ranking member); the user giving the reputation must write a short note as to why the person in question deserves a negative reputation, and if the moderator thinks the negative reputation is well deserved, he passes it through. If a moderator has been given a negative reputation, another moderator will have to review it.

 

What do you guys think?

[Aethelwulf]

I'm personally against reputation systems in general, but perhaps there are ways to improve the one we have right now.

 

Consider, for example, that a negative reputation has to be reviewed by a moderator (or some other higher ranking member); the user giving the reputation must write a short note as to why the person in question deserves a negative reputation, and if the moderator thinks the negative reputation is well deserved, he passes it through. If a moderator has been given a negative reputation, another moderator will have to review it.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I think that is fairer.

[Moontanman]

I don't worry too much about - rep unless i get more than one on the same post, get four or five and you've said something stupid....

[Aethelwulf]

I don't worry too much about - rep unless i get more than one on the same post, get four or five and you've said something stupid....

 

lol

 

It would be time to quit.

[dimreepr]

Instead of concentrating on the negative side of the system lets look at the positive. If one gets a neg rep point that should give one pause for thought and indicate that there may be something not quite right, it may not of course, as any system is open to abuse. That’s one of reasons we need the mods, which incidentally are volunteers and often are not appreciated. It’s clear some decide to take such things personally, instead of using it as a learning aid, to improve the quality and clarity of one’s methods. Positive rep points are something to aspire to in general and the lack of such is another example that one’s method isn’t quite right. Sure the systems not perfect and perhaps Roberts’ suggestion has merit; however I personally like the system as it is. I am certainly not the sharpest tool in the box and value the opportunity to learn, this system helps me greatly.

 

 

[studiot]

Right down to a long list of each of my posts being negatively repped.

 

 

Well I for one obviously don't understand the reputation system as I didn't and still don't see how to tie a reputation to an individual post.

 

So it is a good job I am being cautious with it.

 

Considering this remark

 

and in my case it certainly felt personal

 

How should I take this?

 

So you don't (it seems you are saying) have the attention span to actually sit and explain yourself?

 

 

And that was addressed to someone who has already offered you support.

 

go well

Edited June 27, 2012 by studiot

[Aethelwulf]

Well I for one obviously don't understand the reputation system as I didn't and still don't see how to tie a reputation to an individual post.

 

So it is a good job I am being cautious with it.

 

Considering this remark

 

 

 

How should I take this?

 

 

 

And that was addressed to someone who has already offered you support.

 

go well

 

Well go back to your example in one of my firsts posts here. You basically said I gave a long speach about something, then I said I wasn't sure about a comment and you ignored me. I would have much preferred, (if me and you) had gone through any misunderstandings. I appreciate any support off anyone. That doesn't give you the excuse to be condescending though about one of my better posts (just my own opinion).

 

 

 

 

. I am certainly not the sharpest tool in the box and value the opportunity to learn, this system helps me greatly.

 

 

 

How does it help you... is it because, it will influence you in the future who you will listen to?

 

If so, this is my point all along. I am one of the people here at this forum who can actually talk about science. Having a negative rep then, will influence you greatly against any teaching I might give you? If its not that, can you tell me how it helps you. Then explain how it really helps anyone?

[studiot]

I would have much preferred, (if me and you) had gone through any misunderstandings.

 

This I don't understand, perhaps you could rephrase it?

 

As to condescending, I don't see anything condescending about what I wrote.

I meant it to be a fair and balanced (if jocular) report on my involvement with your thread.

It contained what I consider to be useful information about this bystander's viewpoint.

 

I too have not been here long.

Edited June 27, 2012 by studiot

[dimreepr]

 

How does it help you

 

 

It helps me in judging the quality and clarity of my posts.

 

 

is it because, it will influence you in the future who you will listen to?

 

 

Not at all, I judge each post on content, not who writes it.

 

 

[swansont]

I'm personally against reputation systems in general, but perhaps there are ways to improve the one we have right now.

 

Consider, for example, that a negative reputation has to be reviewed by a moderator (or some other higher ranking member); the user giving the reputation must write a short note as to why the person in question deserves a negative reputation, and if the moderator thinks the negative reputation is well deserved, he passes it through. If a moderator has been given a negative reputation, another moderator will have to review it.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I think the mods would quit en masse if somehow this were foisted upon us.

 

I would much rather just get involved in discussion that interest me, and I suspect the other mods feel the same way but the fact of the matter is there are distractions that can't just be automated away. Spammers need to be dealt with, and filters don't catch them all. There is the occasional flaring of tempers that needs to be cooled off. There's always a crackpot who wants to overturn relativity and confuses criticism with personal attacks. Posters that forget that this is a discussion forum and not their personal blog. And occasional (to be blunt) whiny so-and-so-is-picking-on-me crap.

 

Discussing all of those things (except spammers, who can be banned on sight) in order to make an informed decision on an action takes time. You have to read the reports, discussions and the problem threads. Time that could otherwise be spent in much more enjoyable discussion. But moderation is necessary to make the board run reasonably well. So we do it.

 

You add editorial review of negative reputation? No. I suspect there is more neg rep than reported posts, but even if it's the same, it's a large additional burden.

[Aethelwulf]

This I don't understand, perhaps you could rephrase it?

 

As to condescending, I don't see anything condescending about what I wrote.

I meant it to be a fair and balanced (if jocular) report on my involvement with your thread.

It contained what I consider to be useful information about this bystander's viewpoint.

 

I too have not been here long.

 

The way you made it sound, is that I was talking for the sake of it without any real science.

 

With that aside, what I really mean is I would have appreciated your continuation in that thread than rather ignoring me because I asked you what you meant.

 

I think the mods would quit en masse if somehow this were foisted upon us.

 

 

You add editorial review of negative reputation? No. I suspect there is more neg rep than reported posts, but even if it's the same, it's a large additional burden.

 

Then banish it. The negative rep has no other cause than to try and denounce someone.

 

It helps me in judging the quality and clarity of my posts.

 

 

 

Not at all, I judge each post on content, not who writes it.

 

 

 

If someone has a problem with your posts, I'd expect them to just call you out regardless of anyone negatively reppin them.

[swansont]

Please don't get me started with this again. Ecoli was hinting that either I was incomprehensible or that English was not my native tongue. He also said I seemed to be muddled up physics wise.

 

I think ecoli was more than hinting. It was a flat out declaration: your posts are incomprehensible to me. You know what? Any user is within their rights to say that they didn't understand your point. Language is imperfect and they way people use it in communication is further flawed. Ambiguity exists.

[Aethelwulf]

I think ecoli was more than hinting. It was a flat out declaration: your posts are incomprehensible to me. You know what? Any user is within their rights to say that they didn't understand your point. Language is imperfect and they way people use it in communication is further flawed. Ambiguity exists.

 

Sorry, I can't comprehend you.

 

Maybe It is only 21:00 hours at night, or maybe english isn't your native language, or maybe you are just plain and simple, incomprehensible.

 

 

[swansont]

Sorry, I can't comprehend you.

 

Maybe It is only 21:00 hours at night, or maybe english isn't your native language, or maybe you are just plain and simple, incomprehensible.

 

What part is giving you trouble?

 

Then banish it. The negative rep has no other cause than to try and denounce someone.

 

Quite a bold suggestion from someone who has been here all of two weeks.

[Aethelwulf]

What part is giving you trouble?

 

 

 

Quite a bold suggestion from someone who has been here all of two weeks.

 

You must have lost the punchline. I pretty much quoted Ecoli in his reponse to me the other night, you know, the one you have tried to defend all day.

 

The fact is I understood you perfectly well, and nowhere in any of this have I really thought you where speaking a different language enough for me to think it was not your native tongue.

 

 

 

Quite a bold suggestion from someone who has been here all of two weeks.

 

Even better. As an outsider, you should respect my opinion. You know, those opinions you said everyone was allowed to have.

[Sergeant Bilko]

I'd like an argument, no you don't, yes I do, no thats a series of contradictions, no it isn't, yes it is, no its not.

 

 

Aethelwulf, I am sure that you want to put across some really good and interesting points, but fighting the forum mods, contributors and everyone else isn't going to do that. Why don't you just accept that sometimes people don't see things the way you do and move on. Sometimes a little humilty can move mountains and surely the reason that you are on here is that you want to contribute and learn. So far you are not achieving those aims.

 

I WANT TO LEARN FROM YOU, you can teach me, but tell me in a way I can hear you.

[Aethelwulf]

I'd like an argument, no you don't, yes I do, no thats a series of contradictions, no it isn't, yes it is, no its not.

 

 

Aethelwulf, I am sure that you want to put across some really good and interesting points, but fighting the forum mods, contributors and everyone else isn't going to do that. Why don't you just accept that sometimes people don't see things the way you do and move on. Sometimes a little humilty can move mountains and surely the reason that you are on here is that you want to contribute and learn. So far you are not achieving those aims.

 

I WANT TO LEARN FROM YOU, you can teach me, but tell me in a way I can hear you.

 

Outside of this thread, I have been teaching. You want to learn something, come into the physics subforum and my attentions is all yours sir.

 

(post a few questions though, or ask for a lesson in something, if you really want to learn from me.) Concentrating on this thread and my problems with the repping points here will not give a fair or reasonable understanding of how I can help you.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Aethelwulf

[Arete]

Screw publication records. scienceforums.net reputation is clearly -

 

[Aethelwulf]

Screw publication records. scienceforums.net reputation is clearly -

 

 

loooool

[StringJunky]

Even better. As an outsider, you should respect my opinion. You know, those opinions you said everyone was allowed to have.

 

Beyond a basic minimum, further respect in discussion needs to be earned and a congenially reasoned approach in ones responses goes a long way to accruing it.

 

Edit: Lol! Nice one Arete.

Edited June 27, 2012 by StringJunky

[studiot]

The way you made it sound, is that I was talking for the sake of it without any real science.

 

I was brought up with the view that it is the responsibility speaker or initiator to phrase the wording so that it is understood by the target audience, if necessary providing further explanation or expansion and helping the listener to understand.

 

Let me relate a short story.

 

In 1968 I included some manipulations (more than expected of a Chemistry undergrad) of partial derivatives as part of my writeup of a physical chemistry lab at university.

 

When going through my work the lecturer inquired mildly "Do you understand this ?" (meaning what I had written)

If I hadn't been trying to show off and taken more notice I would have found out that that particular lecturer passed through Cambridge with a triple first in the Physical Sciences Tripos before going on to greater things.

I might then have taken the opportunity to learn much more from him than I did.

 

Nowadays after first and post graduate degrees of my own along with publications by the Universities of Surrey and Edinburgh, the Institution of Structural Engineers and the UK Department of Transport and a spell as the Technical Officer at the Chartered Institution of Transportation and Highways I am past all that and simply try to help people.

 

The fact remains you put forward a theory about mass that relied on electromagnetic effects due to charge and I asked how this worked for a non charged mass that is (as far as I know) unaffected by a magnetic field, to which you replied "why did I ask that question?"

Edited June 27, 2012 by studiot

[Moontanman]

I have to ask, why the obsession with rep points? I honestly can't remember when I looked to see what mine are, I looked at a certain person's rep recently when I noticed him begging for + rep points, because it struck me as an odd thing to do not because i was worried about his rep points. The quality of his arguments reflected his rep points fairly accurately.

 

I am one of those people who are here to learn more than teach since my formal knowledge base is fairly small I expect little in return as far as rep points are concerned. Some of my stances are odd to say the least and I have learned why those stances are odd and some of those stances had to be abandoned others have been shored up by the criticisms I've received.

 

I've learned quite a bit and I am not the same person i was when i signed up for this forum. All in all i am a better person or at least better at making a point due to this and another forum. I was a mod on yet another short lived forum about a body of knowledge i actually do know something about so i do have a small understanding of how little mods are often appreciated.

 

All in all the rep points are at best a guide to understanding your own flaws and at worst an annoying reminder that i know very little about a whole lot of "stuff" and if not for spell check I'd be thought an idiot for sure.

 

I have yet to be able to predict rep points on my posts, some posts i put a large amount of time, energy and passion into were ignored as far as rep points were concerend and a few posts i thought of as just off hand remarks garnered several + rep points... go figure

[pmb]

I don't like the reputation system. It does seem ripe for abuse. Here is a good example

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66798-light-has-mass/page__view__findpost__p__682857

 

In that post I responded to five comments. Each of my respones was created so as to (1) correct historical inaccuraces (2) telling a poster he wasn't dumb for asking the question (3) explain that light actually is affected by gravity (4) explain that light can be deflected by a gravitational field even in the absense of spacetime curvature and (5) agree that Einstein's books are nice to read

 

I got a negative reputation on that post. I believe I know who did it and why it was done and in my opinion it was not for a respectable reason.

 

Then again I don't pay attention to rep points. I simply forget to look at them. However lately I've been using them when I see people being rude or making too many errors withing a thread.

[Aethelwulf]

The fact remains you put forward a theory about mass that relied on electromagnetic effects due to charge and I asked how this worked for a non charged mass that is (as far as I know) unaffected by a magnetic field, to which you replied "why did I ask that question?"

 

No. Go back and actually read it again. I explained how a mass which is accelerated experiences an electromagnetic inertia. You asked me how you calculated the mass with the larmor equation.

 

See your problem here? See the problem you created me?

 

I likely read that thinking ''what's he on about?''

 

I have to ask, why the obsession with rep points?

 

More to the point, why even have em?

 

As I explained, there is no use for them outside of someone wanting to either denounce a character or like a post because of its content. Now, on most respectable forums I have ever seen, such a reputation system is not even needed because people are adult enough to tell someone whether they appreciated a post or whether they didn't like it or disagree with something. Take pmb's case above, someone will neg you for just saying ''you're wrong.''

Edited June 28, 2012 by Aethelwulf

[Ophiolite]

When I receive positive rep I consider what it was about the post that was appreciated. This has helped me, I think, to improve somewhat the quality of my serious posts. The rare instances of negative rep seem mainly to have been associated with a vindictive reaction on the part of another member, or a strong distaste for a controversial position. Negative rep on others have helped me reach a conclusion on the question, "Is this guy nuts, or am I just not reading him right."

 

Summary: they are useful, but they are not the beginning or end of the world.

 

As to why you have gathered a lot of neg rep. I read your thread carefully. My interpretation: you made the heart of your argument obscure; members carelessly read it, jumped to a concussion and attacked a strawman; rather than seeking to clarify in an objective fashion you got belligerent; that confirmed the initial prejudices and the rest followed naturally.