juanrga Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Scientists 'will say they are 99.99% certain' the particle has been found http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2167188/God-particle-Scientists-Cern-expected-announce-Higgs-boson-particle-discovered-Wednesday.html
Moontanman Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 *Correction, the God-Damn particle has been found. Can you elaborate on why you term this a "God-Damn particle"?
swansont Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 I AM THY HIGGS. THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY OTHER FUNDAMENTAL PARTICLES BEFORE ME. 6
Jebus Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Can you elaborate on why you term this a "God-Damn particle"? It's just a joke. I herd Lee Smolin say it at the 2011 Isaac Asimov debate.
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Can you elaborate on why you term this a "God-Damn particle"? Allegedly, that was its original nickname. Lederman said he gave it the nickname "The God Particle" because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive," but jokingly added that a second reason was because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#.22The_God_particle.22 3
dimreepr Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Scientists 'will say they are 99.99% certain' the particle has been found http://www.dailymail...-Wednesday.html I guess we’ll find out on Wednesday but here’s some interesting reading in the mean time. http://networkedblogs.com/zsIH4 1
juanrga Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 Allegedly, that was its original nickname. http://en.wikipedia....God_particle.22 Yes and it was Lederman's editor who suggested that the change to "God particle" would sell more copies of his book.
Aethelwulf Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Scientists 'will say they are 99.99% certain' the particle has been found http://www.dailymail...-Wednesday.html I am glad they have found it, with such a high degree. I should admit I find myself ever-so-slightly disappointed... I did say it would not be found two years ago... but at least I am in good company. Even Hawking believed it would not be found.
elfmotat Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Even Hawking believed it would not be found. Source? EDIT: Nevermind:http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/08/23/a-higgs-setback-did-stephen-hawking-just-win-the-most-outrageous-bet-in-physics-history/ Edited July 2, 2012 by elfmotat 1
Aethelwulf Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Source? EDIT: Nevermind:http://blogs.scienti...hysics-history/ My lecturer at the time, told me this. I don't know his source. Oh right, you have it
juanrga Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 Tevatron scientists announce their final results on the Higgs particle http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/press_releases/2012/Higgs-Tevatron-20120702.html This is very important because the LHC is not so sensitive to the bb channel which is relevant for showing that the Higgs couples correctly to fermions.
michel123456 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Tevatron scientists announce their final results on the Higgs particle http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/press_releases/2012/Higgs-Tevatron-20120702.html This is very important because the LHC is not so sensitive to the bb channel which is relevant for showing that the Higgs couples correctly to fermions. This is from Tevatron. they found nothing (they don't have the adequate equipment) but anticipate the results of LHC. They celebrate Wednesday on Tuesday. Edited July 3, 2012 by michel123456
alpha2cen Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) How do we find the mass giving phenomena? Is it only the finding of high massive particles related to the background? It is an important finding(5 or 6 sigma data better) whether it is Higgs or not. Edited July 3, 2012 by alpha2cen
juanrga Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) This is from Tevatron. Yes, Tevatron scientists work at Tevatron. they found nothing Tevatron scientists (and myself) do not use your definition of "nothing": we see strong indications of the production and decay of Higgs bosons in a crucial decay mode with a pair of bottom quarks, which is difficult to observe at the LHC. We are very excited about it. Edited July 3, 2012 by juanrga -1
michel123456 Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Yes, Tevatron scientists work at Tevatron. Tevatron scientists (and myself) do not use your definition of "nothing": "strong indications" is a way of speaking that I (myself) understand as ευσεβείς πόθοι. Of course anyone is free to understand it as he(she) wishes. So yes, you are correct, my comment was too strong. I should have stated that they found "strong indications" and no "decisive finding" and I apologize for that. And what I meant is that today's announcement is from CERN, not from TEVATRON, and is supposed to be about something more than "strong indications". This is what we waited for http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2012/PR17.12E.html
Aethelwulf Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 John Ellis is curiously keeping an open mind that what they found is not actually a Higgs.
Ringer Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 John Ellis is curiously keeping an open mind that what they found is not actually a Higgs. From what I read, keeping in mind I know next to nothing about particle physics, it's strongly Higgs-like, but the GeV isn't in the area one would expect from the standard model Higgs. Is that something like what they are meaning?
Aethelwulf Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Yes. John Ellis I think is keeping his mind open enough to speculate it might not even be a Higgs.
pantheory Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) This was my prediction 4 days ago based upon press release information last December. "4th of July is just 4 days away now and with no further info than the December press release I will make a prediction. Prediction: They will say that they have discovered a new short-lived particle decay that could be from the Higg's based upon multiple runs, and within the acceptable energy range. -- then saying there might be other possible explanations for this new particle but the evidence is within the range expected for the Higg's decay. And then they might say: that there will be further testing and analysis as well as critical analysis by outside sources before any certain claims might be made as to whether this new particle is the Higg's or not. " Now, with their new press release I think their statement was pretty much expected as given. I think rather than clear evidence of the discovery of the Higg's, it is evidence that the Higg's particle cannot be excluded as a possibility. They generally said that they discovered a new particle of some kind within the decay range predicted for the Higg's. My question is, if the theoretical Higg's particle is generally stable in nature why should the creation of it immediately decay? I can speculate concerning possible answers to this question, but do not know or have not read their preferred answer. I expect that they believe Higg's particles were created from the Big Bang and have persisted ever since, since I have never read of any other proposed creation mechanism. http://press.web.cer...2/PR17.12E.html // Edited July 4, 2012 by pantheory
mr.spaceman Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) amazing news!!! Edited July 4, 2012 by mr.spaceman
Bill Angel Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I read one explanation that I find perplexing. The author states "His suggestion was that particles like protons neutrons and quarks gain mass by interacting with an invisible electromagnetic field that predates the universe called the Higgs field". It's not understandable to me how one can meaningfully discuss invisible fields that predated the universe, as all of space time originated in the big bang.
juanrga Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Higgs boson-like particle discovery claimed at LHC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455 So yes, you are correct, my comment was too strong. I should have stated that they found "strong indications" and no "decisive finding" and I apologize for that. And what I meant is that today's announcement is from CERN, not from TEVATRON, and is supposed to be about something more than "strong indications". This is what we waited for http://press.web.cer...2/PR17.12E.html 1 July I reported in another thread the persistent rumours about what CERN would announce today. In #1 in this tread I reported about what CERN would be probably claiming today, and in #13 I reported about how Tevatron is providing data about the Higgs which is complementary to the data becoming from CERN. Therefore yes, you are completely correct: CERN and Tevatron are different and we were waiting announcement from the CERN.
pantheory Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I read one explanation that I find perplexing. The author states "His suggestion was that particles like protons neutrons and quarks gain mass by interacting with an invisible electromagnetic field that predates the universe called the Higgs field". It's not understandable to me how one can meaningfully discuss invisible fields that predated the universe, as all of space time originated in the big bang. Some hypothesis, like multiverses for instance, propose the existence of a reality before the theoretical Big Bang. There are a number of proposed variations of the Big Bang model where the Zero Point Field predates a Big Bang universe. Along with hypothetical dark matter, I would expect any such theoretical pre-existing field could also theoretically contain Higg's particles. // Edited July 4, 2012 by pantheory
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