GunnerVIII Posted March 11, 2003 Posted March 11, 2003 Im not sure if this classifies as true biology, however I read somewhere that it might be possible that metallic life forms exist in some parts of the universe. I was just wondering what other people thought.
greg1917 Posted March 11, 2003 Posted March 11, 2003 Difficult to give you an opinion when you dont mention where you read it, personally ive never so much as heard of metalic based life. How could life be based on metals anyway? Metals come in a number of guises - reactive little b*stards like sodium that react violently with water, not so reactive metals that react over time like iron and the more inert ones like gold. considering a large portion of carbon based life is water or water based this makes mere existence a little hard.
atinymonkey Posted March 11, 2003 Posted March 11, 2003 It's possible that there are lifeforms other than carbon based lifeforms, but the most commonly thought of replacement would be a silicon based lifeform. Apart from the Silver Surfer, obviously. But that could well just be a suit. But Data is made of metal, just ask Picard.
greg1917 Posted March 11, 2003 Posted March 11, 2003 Silicon based life ive heard of yes. but metallic based? the nature of metallic bonds dont really allow this, at least with silicon u can form some type of chain for molecules like carbon.
DocBill Posted March 18, 2003 Posted March 18, 2003 Originally posted by greg1917 Silicon based life ive heard of yes. but metallic based? the nature of metallic bonds dont really allow this, at least with silicon u can form some type of chain for molecules like carbon. Any life form that is non-carbon based, say Silicon-oxygen, would be very heavy, and would have a difficult time maintaining a metabolizism (as we understand it) to feed a large compolex brain. However, if we remove much of the gravity, many issues disapear. The cosmos is vast beyond meassure, and what life exists in it is anyone's guess. Bill
YoungStrife Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 I never heard of any metallic based lifeforms but I have of the silicon possibility. But these siliscon based lifeforms would have much slower reactions then us carbon based ones, considering the added weight. If you find the source where you got the theory of a metallic based lifeform lease tell me, it sounds pretty interesting.
Radical Edward Posted March 19, 2003 Posted March 19, 2003 the key thing is always the most simple of these organisms, and how they function in the first place (unless you believe in creation) While it is impossible to say with certainty that life based on a given substance (except perhaps carbon) does or does not exist, you have to look at how it might work. All life ultimately is going to be based on chemistry (or possibly other bizarre undiscovered branches pf physics), as that is what forms the various shapes and structures that are needed for respiration and reproduction, now carbon is a prime candidate for this sort of thing, as is silicon, though to a lesser extent. metals on the whole though, are not. computers and so on exist in energetically unfavourable designs, with the wires only forming structures because they were put there, there is even less chance of a computer coming about because of random chance than there is of DNA or other organic molecules of a reasonable complexity. SO barring stuff that is built, I don't really see how metallic life could come about, or even work, to be honest.
NavajoEverclear Posted June 12, 2003 Posted June 12, 2003 silicon based life forms would have slower reactions than carbon base ^ don't know if i quoted that right, oh well . . . . . so if silicon is slower could anything make a life form with faster reaction than carbon? Or would it not be strong enough to stay together, or is carbon as simple as it gets? Could there be such thing as other forms of matter---- such as refined matter------ the reason I ask is my religion which believes God does things by physics (well esentially member of every religion try to proove themselves in similar manner) ---- we believe that spirits are made of refined matter, I know this isn't very specific, and sounds like just a made up explanation to satisfy psychological 'needs' but I'm sure if you thought about it you could think up a way that this makes sense. I'm too busy to think that hard right now. About metallic organisms not really being able to work--- could we MAKE them work, if they don't occur naturally. Yeah I know all our computer research is done in silicon, but are there any other matter with capability to be molded if we tried. Could you make a cell out of nano gears and such or something like that? I would really like it if someone could answer ALL of these questions. ALL of them. My brain I think has more capacity for imagination than actually figuring stuff out (hey maybe its not different from you, whatever you tell me probably you learned somewhere else, unless your a REAL creative thinker), so help me out.
NavajoEverclear Posted June 12, 2003 Posted June 12, 2003 jus bringin this back to the top for some feedback
Radical Edward Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by NavajoEverclear jus bringin this back to the top for some feedback bouncing threads is bad mmkay? nano machines could work, though I doubt they would work with gears. they could be constructed in a way that they can construct new ones, but this would be a highly dangerous thing to do. as for refined matter. It is all well and good people making things up, but what are the properties of this refined matter? it makes no sense.
Radical Edward Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward bouncing threads is bad mmkay? If people want to answer something they will. don't do it again. nano machines could work, though I doubt they would work with gears. they could be constructed in a way that they can construct new ones, but this would be a highly dangerous thing to do. as for refined matter. It is all well and good people making things up, but what are the properties of this refined matter? it makes no sense.
NavajoEverclear Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 I don't know the science of refined matter, I haven't thought about it myself, and neither has anyone else. But just because we don't know doesn't mean its not true---- say I told (well someone more educated than me probably) some one who had never heard about it before about some advanced physics fact, without explaining how it works--- that person might be likely to not believe it if it sounded far fetched enough---- and if we could go back in time to tell people from like the 15th century they'd just call it witchcraft or something and burn us.-------- yeah i know this explanation wont satisfy anyone here though probably, I'll tell you when i think up a way I think it could work.---- but who knows maybe its true function is not really understandable to us, i'll try though.
KHinfcube22 Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward metals on the whole though, are not. computers and so on exist in energetically unfavourable designs, with the wires only forming structures because they were put there, there is even less chance of a computer coming about because of random chance than there is of DNA or other organic molecules of a reasonable complexity. SO barring stuff that is built, I don't really see how metallic life could come about, or even work, to be honest. I diagree with this. the subjecy is wether a metallic based life form can exist. Radical Edward is stating it can't be because how can metalc life exist since wires and stuff can't reproduce, and it had no DNA. Well, metallic doesn't mean hard steel with wires 'n stuff in the inside. I means made out of metal and not al metal is solid. There is a possibility that a LIQUID metal based life form might exist. It might "eat" plants and animals of carbon or silicon based molecular structures, and have some sort of chemical things in side of it in which it turns the other life forms into something in which it would make it grow. What about reproduction? Well, once it gets big enough, it could split in two, you know, have kids a sexualy. Or even two might swirl together and mix parts of the liquid metal to gether to create a baby one. Any arguments against this?
JaKiri Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 I doubt there could be a metal based organism. This is simply because of the limited number of reactions possible. If you compare the number of possible reactions for metals (ALL metals), and those of carbon, the number of possible carbon reactions dwarfs the metallic ones by several orders of magnitude.
KHinfcube22 Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 You only say that for there is more ways for carbon to react to stuff than metal becase you live HERE. Theplanet inwhich a metal life form would have to live, would be far diffrent than this is. In a mtal life forms world, tere may be more reactions to stuff than carbon has.
JaKiri Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by KHinfcube22 You only say that for there is more ways for carbon to react to stuff than metal becase you live HERE. Theplanet inwhich a metal life form would have to live, would be far diffrent than this is. In a mtal life forms world, tere may be more reactions to stuff than carbon has. WHY THE **** WOULD THERE BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT CHEMISTRY (and hence physics) ON ANOTHER PLANET? That's, even for here, one of the most stupid suggestions I have ever heard.
KHinfcube22 Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 We base all our science of physics off of expirence, which is severly limited kiving only in one enviroment. One can't really say what can or cannot happen unless one is either omniscient, or has lived a million years on a million diffrent planets, each i a diffrent galaxy. And still they wouldn't half of all physics is.
NSX Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri WHY THE **** WOULD THERE BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT CHEMISTRY (and hence physics) ON ANOTHER PLANET? That's, even for here, one of the most stupid suggestions I have ever heard. That's understandable; I mean, things like Newton's Law of Universal Graviitation seem to work everywhere; however, I guess what KHinfcube22 is trying to say is that we really do not know what is beyond our realms. I mean, who knows? There could be some other dimension where gravity expels all objects instead of attracting them. We can't rule it out yet...I guess, just put it in Pseudoscience for now. Originally posted by KHinfcube22 We base all our science of physics off of expirence, which is severly limited kiving only in one enviroment. One can't really say what can or cannot happen unless one is either omniscient, or has lived a million years on a million diffrent planets, each i a diffrent galaxy. And still they wouldn't half of all physics is. Very true; anything can be true until it has been rigourously been proven to be impossible. I think Stephen Hawking said somethign along the lines of that.
KHinfcube22 Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by NSX Very true; anything can be true until it has been rigourously been proven to be impossible. I think Stephen Hawking said somethign along the lines of that. Anything is possible until limits are givin. One can't give limits till one knows all. Only the omniscient can tell what is possible and which is not.
JaKiri Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by KHinfcube22 We base all our science of physics off of expirence, which is severly limited kiving only in one enviroment. One can't really say what can or cannot happen unless one is either omniscient, or has lived a million years on a million diffrent planets, each i a diffrent galaxy. And still they wouldn't half of all physics is. Look. The reactions that can take place with metals are inherently limited because metals cannot form chains in the same way as carbon. This isn't something we've 'missed', it's a theoretical impossibility, and given the amount of research into this kind of thing, I'm going to say it's a physical impossibility too. You're using a very off version of the scientific method.
Sayonara Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri The reactions that can take place with metals are inherently limited because metals cannot form chains in the same way as carbon. This really isn't something you can argue with.
KHinfcube22 Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Sayonara³ This really isn't something you can argue with. Shut Up!!!!.... I'm sorry, what I mean is, there may be some way metals can react that would alow them to be living beings. We don't know even a fraction of all the elements the universe holds. Now stop this foolish squabbling and BOW DOWN TO ME MINDLESS DRONE!!!!... I'm sorry, what I really mean is SHUT UP... No, no, I mean alls well that ends in A FIREY INFERNO!!!!!
Sayonara Posted June 15, 2003 Posted June 15, 2003 There may well be elements we have not discovered yet. However, if there are they will be high up in the periodic schema which means they will be (i) rare and (ii) not exactly suited to stable organic molecules. You should also know that it's possibly to predict elements based on periodicity, and therefore predict their behaviour and reactions.
greg1917 Posted June 15, 2003 Posted June 15, 2003 Every few years a new element is discovered in the lofty heights of the upper f block. These however are all super dense highly unstable only-exist-for-less-than-a-second metals which rarely have a practical use other than research. in any case very few of these metals are going to naturally exist anywhere at all due the unlikelihood (spelling???) of said metals being created via fusion in stars. to metallic based life i say a resounding no - metals form directionless bonds and MrL JaKiri rightly said metallic reactions are inherently limited compared to those of carbon.
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